Draemon

Testing environment: 1v1 duel.

Testing specifics:

• Non-talented Thunder Clap (10% swing speed reduction) kept on PvP target for the duration of testing.
• Tested on a Druid in Bear Form, 2.5s standard melee swing speed.
• Thunderclap reduces target's swing speed to 2.75s (displayed in character sheet).
• [Draenic Sparring Blade] enchanted with Deathfrost used as experiment weapon, Deathfrost proc'd a total of 10 times during the experiment.
• Each time the Deathfrost debuff was applied to the target, the Thunderclap debuff was removed, thus not stacking with it.

Test conclusion:
Thunderclap (non-talented) and Deathfrost do not stack if the Warrior using Thunderclap is also the Warrior with the weapon applying Deathfrost, the Deathfrost debuff will replace the (non-talented) Thunderclap all the time.

Test did not include separate target applying Deathfrost & Thunderclap, yet to be tested.
Test did not include 3/3 Talented Thunderclap.

 

varagh

The poster above is right.

With TC 3/3 : DF and TC debuffs dont stack but both DF and TC debuffs are still applied on the target (guess for increasing casting speed but not for the melee attack speed 'cause of 3/3 TC debuff > DF).

Same things with separated target wich applies the TC and DF debuffs.

Hope this helps.

 

Roywyn

* The Deathfrost debuffs works as expected. It overwrites normal TC and coexists with Imp. TC, and the stronger attack speed debuff applies.
* It cannot be resisted, dodged, etc., it will always hit. It crits with your spell crit chance for 150% damage.
* It is a non-magic frost spell effect. (I.e. CloS'able, but not dispellable).

* Very few very generic talents affect it, those that affect all damage or all spell damge (but not damage from spells!).
Playing with Fire - Spell - World of Warcraft seems to affect it, Molten Fury - Spell - World of Warcraft definately does not.
* Zone buffs (+5% damage from capturing the PvP towers) and and 1-hand/2-hand specialisation do apply.

* The damage from crits is not increased by frost talents. The CSD (and RED?) meta seems to affect it.


* For procs from spells, the proc rate is 50%, the internal CD is 25s.
* It only procs from direct damage spells, not off DoTs.
* It cannot proc off damage shields like Thorns, Imp. PW:S, etc., but it can proc off Lightning Shield (and nothing else).

* For procs from melee attacks, there is no internal cooldown.
* It does not proc off ranged attack and ranged specials like Avenger's Shield/Hammer of Wrath.
* It seems to be able to proc from damage dealing Judgements with it's melee proc rate

So, we know how Deathfrost works by now, but have no good idea about the proc rate?

Wow Web Stats
1000 swings with a 3.2s staff, no haste, no melee talents. 108 procs.

Bgnasty - WWS From a warrior tanking (assuming 1.6/1.7'ish 1Her).
2965 swings (whites and yellows), 157 procs.

Several other people suggested a 10-12% proc rate on 2-handers, 8% proc rate on 1-handers (with fast 1Hs).
If someone has a log from meleeing with a slow (2.5s+) 1Her (not dualwielding) to confirm that, it would be great.
Otherwise, we're still stuck with the "PPM or %" question.

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 

calisti

The discussion in this thread has covered the stacking, or lack thereof, or deathfrost and thunderclap. What I haven't seen discussed is the stacking of deathfrost with curse of tongues or mind numbing poison. I'd assume that that these effects don't stack, but we all know what happens when we make assumptions about WoW mechanics. I'm also curious to know if the spell casting debuff affects monsters that are normally immune to curse of tongues. Has anyone tested this yet?

 

• Chicken

While I haven't fully tested it. I do know that Mind-numbing Poison and Curse of Tongues don't stack, so it's unlikely Deathfrost will. As for mobs that are usually immune to spell cast slowing and Deathfrost, I only know for sure that Illidan casts Shear and Draw Soul at the same speed regardless of whether or not he has Deathfrost up.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

dinesh

We know that DF will eat an unimproved TC, and that it will "co-exist" with an improved TC, ostensibly because of the separate debuff to cast speed.

Following that train of thought, if the boss has both an improved TC and CoT or MN poison up, will the DF buff even get applied?

[edit: crap, that'll learn me to leave the keyboard for a few minutes!]

 

• Chicken

Deathfrost is also a ranged attack speed slow, so it should co-exist with the combinations you mentioned.

Whether it stays up when [Slow] and Improved Thunderclap are up would need testing though.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

rooj

Has anyone confirmed that CoT Immune bosses are also immune to DeathFrost?

someone mentioned that kael's pyros were affected, any evidence of this?

 

Nobbynob Littlun

Hail to you, Chicken.

So, has anyone specifically tested Deathfrost with improved blizzard? Might improved blizzard alter the nature of the spell such that each tick is calculated as a seperate spell hit for the purposes of applying its chill effect each time the damage connects? I kind of doubt it, but... am curious.

I'm also unclear whether the internal cooldown for AoE spells applies across the board or on a per-target basis. That is, if a mage with deathfrost is spamming arcane explosion in a pack of mobs, can we expect to see deathfrost effects scattered throughout?

I hope in the expansion that hurricane-spamming druids will be more common fare, but in the meantime the possibility of an area attack speed reduction that any mage can apply is intriguing, however sporadic it may be.

 

Bisbus

Do you have any idea if some of the arcane mage talents affect it(i.e. Spellpower, arcane instability, arcane power)? Also if you are AoEing can it proc on multiple mobs at once?

 

• Chicken

In regards to AoEing with Deathfrost, based on my own testing with [Holy Wrath], it'll only proc on one mob at a time while AoEing. Holy Wrath does have travel time before hitting it's targets, though I made sure that around 30 mobs were in melee range before casting the spell (Stratholme is a perfect place for this as a Paladin); in five tests I didn't see a single double proc. I did see a proc of Deathfrost every single time I used Holy Wrath with this amount of mobs.

My sample size wasn't large enough to call this completely conclusive though.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Oprahwinfury

Deathfrost procs from melee swings destroys Grounding Totems, making harder to stop a incoming Cyclone/Poly etc.

 

Panzzzer

i´d like to know if u just saw the debuff or if u acutally saw any difference in the castbar. if yes, the question would be now if its worth or not, or if it would be even harm MORE then it does help in case it procs. as we already read in this discussion the debuffs stays when just 1 of its mechanic gets overwritten or doesnt effect the mob. so i guess kiljaeden´s funny meeleeknockback is perhabs just effected.

anyway, it seems to proc on bosses and some of them get affected (kaelthas), now am interested in any KJ expierence (even tho ill test it myself asap)#

regards Panzzer

 

• frmorrison

The Mage Talent Arctic Winds (5% more frost damage affects it), but not piecing ice.

Temp % buffs like Avenging Wrath affects it.

I have seen people post that the enchant is % chance to proc.

 

Sashia

This is correct. Seems incredibly good against arena teams with shaman in this regard.

 

Cranberry

If it procced on a spell, does the spell or the deathfrost hit first?

E: Specifically a spell with a travel time, since I don't believe DF has one.

 

• frmorrison

Deathfrost is an instant attack, so assuming you cast a Shadow Bolt that procs Deathfrost, the DF should eat the totem since it got there "first".


The other nice thing about DF other than Ice Block and Divine Shield, the debuff cannot be removed until it wears off, so I think certain Arena comps could use it for a combo of Thunderclap/Curse of tongues utility.

 

• Chicken

Actually the grounding totem will eat the Shadow Bolt. While Deathfrost itself has no travel time, it won't proc on a spell with travel time until it actually hits the target. The spell that procs it always lands first, in other words.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Cayl

I have observed Deathfrost on my Balance Druid and Enhancement Shaman. With the druid I have noticed that it in fact procs a momment after the spell hits. This can be observed by hitting a player who is casting with a spell. The damage from your spell will cause spell pushback and when the Deathfrost procs a momment later it will again cause spell pushback.

I have to mention that I have found dual wielding Deathfrost weapons on my shaman to nearly always proc and maintain the debuff. Between the very high chance of a proc from a shock outside the cooldown and the flurry of melee swings that is an enhancement shaman the debuff is darn near dependable. Consider it as a tactic for your arena teams if they include an enhancement shaman.

 

Graci

I am going to test this on an arc/frost mage and see what I get unless it's already been done. I read the the entire thread and didn't see any testing on it.

 

Zujamar

A friend of mine did some premilinary testing, wielding a 1-hander (not dualwielding) and came up with these results, feel free to interpretate:

Using a 1.8 speed weapon:
1183 seconds
663 hits
40 proccs
(which would be 2.03ppm or 6% chance on hit)

Using a 2.6 speed weapon:
1314 seconds
505 hits
59 proccs
(2,92ppm or 11,7%)

 

MatsT

To clarify the stacking of different speed slows.

Deathfrost does NOT stack with anything at all, ever. You WILL see the debuff together with thunderclap, because thunderclap doesn't increase the ranged attack speed. Bosses are immune to Casting speed slows yes, but not to ranged attack speed slows.

The very easy way to test this is to use thunderclap and deathfrost both alone and together, in a duel, and have them look at their character screen attack speed. Just as was to be expected from when the enchant went live, it does not stack with anything.

Can still be useful for paladin tanks in some situations, and looks quite good for mage/shaman pvp.

 

Panzzzer

deathfrost tested on kiljaeden. it does apply but does NOT slow any of his casts.

 

KnThrak

I doubt this is worth it.
Any Warrior remotely considering PvE will independant of spec have ImpTC. For the purpose of slowing the damage on the tank, so far it seems since the cast slow doesn't work on bosses, only the melee slow is interesting. And for that, ImpTC > Deathfrost, plus it's more reliable.

SQUEAK.
-- (The Death of Rats, Terry Pratchett, Soul Music)