The WWI thread - Page 14

Sando · 07/02/08, 9:48 PM

Originally Posted by Darian_TruBlade

I think one thing people commonly overlook is that there's more to respeccing than just selecting new talents.

Talent specs differ not only in the XX/YY/ZZ numbers, but in gear and skill priorities as well. Even across classes like Rogues, how you weight certain stats and what skills you keep in close reach will change. Unless you've got the gear and a snazzy UI to cope with changing specs on the fly, the effectiveness of easy spec switching is dubious without proper preparation. This is only accentuated by classes like Mages or hybrids.

The thing is that this is currently the case, but blizzard are almost explicitly making it so that the swap from 1 role to another doesn't require a gear swap, and it's very obvious with healers -> caster DPS, with the new spell-power stat. The only role reversal i see having problems in the same gear is tanking -> DPS, although DKs seem to have some talents that will make this easier, i think they have a talent that increases their AP based on armor.

Most DPS can well and truly 'get by' in current gear in a different spec, and if there were dynamic switches in the middle of fights, it would probably be for some utility like imp-cs on a mage, silencing or scatter shot on a hunter etc, and you could leave your normal DPS gear on.

Tacitus · 07/02/08, 9:58 PM

Originally Posted by Sando

The only role reversal i see having problems in the same gear is tanking -> DPS, although DKs seem to have some talents that will make this easier, i think they have a talent that increases their AP based on armor.

5/10/15/20/25 AP per 1000 points of armour, first tier Blood. With 10k armour, that's 250 AP.

• Chicken · 07/03/08, 6:21 AM

Originally Posted by Tacitus

5/10/15/20/25 AP per 1000 points of armour, first tier Blood. With 10k armour, that's 250 AP.

Also worthy of note with this talent is that it actually gives 1 Attack Power per 200/100/66/50/40 armor. I've seen people mistakenly assume before you only get the attack power for each full 1000 armor.

Akka · 07/03/08, 9:44 AM

Originally Posted by Sando

The only role reversal i see having problems in the same gear is tanking -> DPS, although DKs seem to have some talents that will make this easier, i think they have a talent that increases their AP based on armor.

Well, healer <-> tank and even more healer <-> physical DPS seems a bit hard to keep on the same gear, too.

nfw · 07/03/08, 2:25 PM

Originally Posted by Draele

The complaint isn't about the ability to switch back and forth between two different specs. The complaint is the increased likelyhood of Blizzard implementing gimmick fights that will require we use some secondary spec because we now have the ability to switch to another spec so easily...

I think the chance of that is pretty small, unless the mobs wait patiently for you to set up all your buttons, macros etc. Of course I suppose they could allow us to associate hotbar configurations with the spec templates

flyingtoastr · 07/03/08, 2:36 PM

Originally Posted by nfw

I think the chance of that is pretty small, unless the mobs wait patiently for you to set up all your buttons, macros etc. Of course I suppose they could allow us to associate hotbar configurations with the spec templates

We already have fights like that (Brut, Felmyst, etc). Why would that change if people get free respecs? Hell, why wouldn't it become more common?

Lazare · 07/03/08, 8:48 PM

Bliz has already implemented gimmick fights that require (or strongly benefit) from very particular classes and specs. TBC is full of them from start to finish, starting with Karazhan.

As to the question of whether Bliz will make more of them...I actually don't think it matters much. Whether Bliz means it or not, every fight will have SOME optimum class/spec mix, and serious hardcore guilds will view extreme min-maxing to meet that optimum as being "required" on every fight no matter what Bliz does. Casual guilds won't. I don't think fast or free respecs will change that.

Exewut · 07/03/08, 9:00 PM

Did they ever mention how many of those specs you would be able to store?
The reason I ask is because of this comment here:

Originally Posted by Ralnar

While we don't know much about the new inscription effects, one that has been mentioned was an increase to the dispel resistance for viper sting. That's a pretty much PvP orientated inscription, unless we expect to see more Moam based mobs.

If inscriptions don't follow along with the "free second spec" rules as talent, we are just being setup to move our costs to and hassles of maintaining the min/max edge for players of both PvE & PvP to the inscription side.

It seems to me that it is highly likely that they will limit the number of talent specs you can store at the same time. Will they however limit it at 2,3,4 or any other number? The problem with keeping the number of possible specs low is that it wouldn't adress the issue of having to respec to be able to pvp/farm/whatever. Perhaps tying the number of possible talent builds to the class itself and not making it the same for everyone could work.

Azurai · 07/04/08, 4:39 AM

Originally Posted by PSGarak

I don't expect this to happen in WoW, but I do expect next-generation MMOs to be much more account-based rather than character-based.

If respeccing destroys the value of a character's choices, this system would simply destroy the value in choice of a character.

The nature of WoW is that it is a 100% gear based game. There are no AA's to be had here, no nearly infinite skillup choices like Asheron's Call (sans bots), no selectable stat points like an ARPG. Looking at WoW in a strictly analytical sense in order form a basis of arguments about role playing is silly.

A warrior who has top of the line prot gear and decent dps gear is still a prot warrior, whether he respecs to dps or not. Just because gear confers the bonuses in this game, it is in no way any less of a measurement of advancement or a hindrance to role playing (actively or passively). If someone has equally the best gear for multiple specs, simply consider him a god amongst mortals, or the more humble a jack of all trades.

It isn't like anyone can respec and be at the same level without considerable investment into gear and practice.

Benita · 07/04/08, 4:40 AM

Originally Posted by Exewut

It seems to me that it is highly likely that they will limit the number of talent specs you can store at the same time. Will they however limit it at 2,3,4 or any other number? The problem with keeping the number of possible specs low is that it wouldn't adress the issue of having to respec to be able to pvp/farm/whatever. Perhaps tying the number of possible talent builds to the class itself and not making it the same for everyone could work.

I would guess that the change is aimed at the pvp/pve respeccs. Best example would be that the MS pvp warriors cried about having to respecc to farm badges for their cloaks. I highly doubt they were thinking about min/max raiders that respecc during a farm clear, but might make it generic enough to also help them.

Blizzard always implements new features with the least amount of impact possible and then build up on it, when they see how it actually plays out (which is a good thing), so i doubt it will be more than 2 speccs at the beginning.

Vasala · 07/04/08, 6:30 AM

Originally Posted by Sando

Personally, cost of respec is something for blizzard to decide, as has been suggested, i think a money sink (10,000g was suggested i believe) to allow you to have a 'secondary' spec that you can change to without cost would be nice, but that secondary spec also need to be changeable, probably for a 50g 'respec' fee, otherwise this secondary spec could become worthless with patches nerfing and buffing talents.

I would be very against this new talent swapping being a big money sink like this. The reason is that doing so would be a big penalty to the two types of characters that need it most: tanks and healers. Both types of character currently have difficulties farming so they will have more issues getting the cash to allow swaps between a farming and raiding spec. I see this change as being a way to help the tanks and healers first and the pvpers second.

Veneda · 07/04/08, 6:39 AM

Originally Posted by Sando

The thing is that this is currently the case, but blizzard are almost explicitly making it so that the swap from 1 role to another doesn't require a gear swap, and it's very obvious with healers -> caster DPS, with the new spell-power stat.

Personally, I hope those unification attempts will be limited to the leveling gear and non-set items. Sets should be optimized with class and talent tree in mind to avoid wasted stat points. There will always be significant differences between value of certain stats for classes that will cause uniformed gear to be better for one or another.