Anedris

Every spell has a place. Chain heal is amazing, but to make the obvious example, if someone is going to be dead in 1.7 seconds chain heal is completely useless (well, unless you NS it I guess). Your shamans may well be correct that they should be doing the vast bulk of their healing with chain heal (though that will depend heavily on what they are being assigned to heal), but if they're not ready to cast a LHW when LHW would be the best spell to cast then they're just being obstinate.

 

bimmian

Our MT respecs to MS/BF to tank KJ, and it worked much better for us than a feral or lock tank (tried both while learning). The only person who had threat issues (prior to vanish working) was our dual-warglaive rogue, but that is a non-issue now.

We use a feral and prot pally for adds. Being able to pull them to KJ and get seeds going quickly is pretty key. As long as we don't get priest adds they are usually dead by the end of shadow spike.

 

Natural

Are those links correct? The TPS report points to a WWS report where it looks like KJ was tanked by your feral Cowazon.

 

bimmian

Good catch. I was looking at the wrong report. We used a feral this week, which obviously works just as well.

 

UnholY_Prince

Sorry if I'm missing something obvious, but how does the Haste breath being applied 2-3 seconds earlier solve these problems. Is it simply because the raid is spreading out slightly faster post-shield, and less of a danger of Blooms?

Quick question on the collapse timing for the pre-shield approach. Do you usually just call the collapse about 2-3 seconds before the CD for Darkness comes up, get the Haste buff, and then stay collapsed waiting for Darkness? Doesn't this setup potentially causes more raid damage due to potential Fireblooms ticking and being applied while collapsing slightly earlier?

Apologies if I'm missing something, just curious as to the benefits and specifics of this approach as opposed to the seemingly more common post-shield Breath.

 

Trouble

If you haste breath pre-shield then everyone spreads to the edges of the shield and runs the instant the explosion goes off. People are spread before KJ could possibly cast Flame Darts or Bloom and get back into position quicker.

We call collapse at 3 seconds prior, making sure to keep people aware if there's an impending Bloom timer. If someone has bloom they need to go out of their way not to blow people up, staying within about 5 yards of where the shield will be but trying not to hit the main clump. They go into the shield as soon as it's up but they miss getting breaths as a result. We found this to be the overall safest method of handling all the timers after trying both pre and post shield breaths.

 

◊ Kyth

Since P1 dps doesn't matter (darkness timers start until he hits 85%), before vanish worked our rogues just waited until 95% (90%?) to start dps on him. And that wasn't even strictly necessary, it just helped in case I (lock tank) got blooms before every shield so missed haste breath half the time.

I've never used searing pain on him. Since we all go shadow for KJ, that'd mean switching up pets mid-fight when I switch from searing pain to shadowbolt, and it just didn't seem worth it.

We also don't have an issue with dps on the adds missing one warlock -- if add dps is bad it's because people are sucking and not dps'ing the adds, not because we're short one person.

KJ this week (vanish works): Wow Web Stats
KJ last week (no vanish): Wow Web Stats

If we have a free haste breath after getting the rogues, I get it. And I have a spot close to the shield to reduce the risk.

One other thing that helped with lock tank threat was that I didn't dps orbs until we had 3 of them (unless we got orbs right as shield was going up, then I did.) When there's two orbs up things are still very calm and everyone has tons of dps time.

Your lock and your healer just need to be good at working together. And the lock has to never screw up, because if they pull a standard shenanigan like missing a shield or standing in a meteor, the raid wipes.


I'm out for 10 days in august and I think we might try a feral then (KJ will have been dead for about two months by then anyways, changing strats shouldn't be an issue) and I'll be curious to see what people think.


The only amusing thing is that we dropped down to 3 warlocks, so I was doing CoE about halfway through our learning, and our MT kept complaining about my initial threat saying I was doing something different, not clicking off salv until later, etc. etc. (he steps in and grabs KJ until my SB's go off, so we know where the second soulflay will go.)

I explained to him it was just that I was casting a curse on engage, rather than at 97% (which ensured it went off sub 85%.) He didn't quite believe me, so I just open with enough shadowbolts to get a threat lead over him and then put up my curse and now everything is happy and peaceful in Fusion KJ land .


Haste breath ahead of time means you're at the edges of the shield and spreading out after darkness casts, so you're less clumped for blooms. And obviously it means a dart won't snare you.

People with blooms do not collapse on the raid ever -- no matter when you're breathing. They go behind the dragon, and duck in at 4 seconds remaining on his timer. (NOT when they see shield graphic go up.... aklsdjfkalsfjdf)

We do collapse just a little bit early -- if the controller notices the bloom timer will be up, they say so, and everyone is extra-careful when coming in, and more ready to scoot out if blooms arrive. The only time a pre-shield breath is an issue is blooms as you're collapsing, but we've gotten a lot better at handling that through practice and being aware when it *might* happen, and it's not that often anyways.


(edit) took too long to write it and beaten by Trouble. Ah well.

Sunwell: http://strats.fusion-guild.org/

 

Gofa

We've just started working on him and I have a question regarding dragon orbs. There are 4 potential orbs but I can only stand between 2 of them. Looking at *this* picture, orbs are roughly at 3, 6, 9, 12. Well, my position is between 1 and 2 and if the dragon orb spawns at 6 or 9, I have a hard time getting fast enough to the collapsing raid to buff it before flame darts start.

Where should I position myself or do we need 2 people for dragons, so that there is another player on the other side of the room to controll the dragon?

 

Clandestine

We use two people, you need a second one for sub-25% anyways.

 

Hand

If you only have one controller you are essentially rolling the dice. You can use a swiftness pot and blink, you can use the run speed drums, it doesn't matter. It's not possible to get there fast enough before he can flame dart with one person, so either use another one, or accept that you're going to wipe about 5% of the time if you get unlucky. I used to do all the orbs and I would swiftness pot and intervene a totem. It works most of the time, but no matter how fast you are, if its one of the far orbs you will have a chance of the raid wiping. I would definitely recommend using two orb controllers.

 

Geckothan

Personally we use 4 people, all 4 of them are healers. Using that diagram, we spread out from 8:30 to 12:30. During shadow spikes, the people assigned to the 2:30 and 6:30 orbs run to 1:30 and 7:30 respectively, if their orbs aren't activated, they get back to their usual position and whoever gets the dragon will come over to them and single buff them with haste breath as they usually miss the initial breath pack. In phase 5, the people assigned to the 9:00 and 12:00 orbs take their usual orbs first, then the 2:30 and 6:30 orbs.

 

Johnneke

We have started work on Kil'Jaeden, we managed to learn the pull and we are spreading amonst the north side of the room. Now whats killing us mostly are the reflections. We have a paladin tank grabbing them but sometimes they just feel all over the place and to die quite slow. We have 4 warlocks, we tried soc kil'jaeden but whenever we get ranged adds we dont get them fast enough next to Kil'jaeden.

So how are you guys managing the reflections, and how fast should I expect them to go down?
Already thanks for any input given.

 

• Shifft

We only use one controller, but we also don't buff the raid with haste prior to darts. We just have the melee clump and get a haste buff once the dragon is there.

 

• Intermission

1) Get the pickup smooth. There is no excuse for adds not to stick to the paladin from the time they activate. I'm not saying they always will, but there is no excuse for when they dont. Avenger's + JoR + Misdirect-Multishot, or Consecrate + Misdirect-Multishot.
2) warrior/priest/rogue/shaman/druid adds can easily be dragged next to KJ and in range of ALL locks, so the locks can SoC the adds and damage KJ at the same time, or vice versa. hunter/paladin adds can also be dragged next to KJ, but a FAP will make it much easier. mage/lock adds will stand still, so make sure either:
...i) all locks and mages are in range of all other locks. So no matter where they spawn, the paladin does not need to move them for the locks to SoC.
..ii) all locks and mages are within melee range during the 85/55/25 transition. This has the added benefit of KJ-SoC method, and also possibly quicker/easier for the paladin to pick up the adds.

 

Natural

The paladin should be in the center of the room ready to avenger shield the mobs. He should also run up and judge the 4th one that does not get hit. Additionally you should have a hunter move to the center of the raid to misdirect.

The only trouble that happens from this point is due to KJ and his wings when a melee is targeted next to him. The shield/multishot can hit KJ and you might only get initial aggro on 2 mobs. The remaining 2 need to be picked up and are quite hard to target through KJ's wings. The only solution for that is to have the paladin run up and consecrate.

 

• Emn

Presuming your collapse spot is roughly in the center of your raid make up, have the Paladin stand there. Create a macro that targets "Sinister Reflection" and casts his/her avenger's shield. When the reflections are about to come up, have the person call on vent their position (North, North East, etc...) and just have the Paladin swing around and mash the button. Avenger's shield will only hit 3 of the 4 reflections, so help from hunters MD's and/or taunt should help pick the other one up.

As for killing them, your best bet if to try and kill them before the you need to collapse to the shield. We have our warlocks and mages move in towards KJ before the reflection call so that the reflections are in a place where some of the damage will hit KJ and of course most of the raid is in range of.

 

Johnneke

I made some diagrams for positioning on Kil'Jaeden in p2-5. Is there anyone that can give some input on them, for instance spread out over a to big portion of the room, not spread out enough, etc. Thanks on the feedback for the reflections btw, was really helpful we will adjust some things for this I'm sure.

Diagram 1: This is for when using a Druid/Warrior tank which we used first
http://img381.imageshack.us/img381/1...sitionsjs1.jpg
Diagram 2: For when we gonna try a Warlock tank which is something some want to test aswell, to free the warrior to help on grabbing the reflections
http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/725...nrangedbf1.jpg

 

Barnies

Is this assuming they are doing an early collapse for breaths before the first darkness? It defiantly isn't a roll of the dice otherwise and I wouldn't encourage early collapses if your guild has historically had good dps in these phases. I control the orbs for my guild and we don't find it very difficult to have a mage reach any of the 4 orbs.

I stand rather close to Kil'jaeden for two reasons. Firstly, to ensure I am closer to the far orbs. Secondly, to ensure my reflections get dropped in a reasonable position to be killed.

The damage requirements aren't huge if you keep 25 members alive. An early collapse for breaths, in my opinion, isn't required and can cause more wipes than is really needed which really hamper progress. Even on a far orb spawn I have time to blink towards it, possibly mess around with a blastwave and dragon's breath on reflections, and call collapses on two separate groups (melee group, hunters and co.) before the first darkness. This makes it very difficult to wipe to anything stupid in the first two dragon phases.

 

jasura

Don't actually make a macro that targets AND casts avenger's shield. Just make a macro that targets them and as soon as they pop up, shoot em with your shield. Shield + Judge should take care of all 4. If your shield misses any, taunt. Make sure that nobody is doing any AOE type spells once he's just about to transition. No ret pally consecrating, no DPS warrior Whirlwinding, etc.

The mages and locks can't realistically be pulled to KJ. You can pull them THROUGH KJ but then they get all spread out and your consecrate won't hit all 4, not to mention the time lost in running ALL the way to the other end of the room. Just AOE them where they stand. I gave up on dragging hunters too. Now that they don't imp wing clip I no longer need to use FAP's but they're still a pain. If you run out of the melee range, they'll just stand there and shoot you. And thanks to lag, they won't move with you constantly. You kind of have to inch over to get them all over there and it's too much of a pain in my opinion.

For the melee adds, I pick them up then run THROUGH KJ. When he is casting shadow spike he won't do the knockback so you can run through and then reverse to get the adds between you and KJ to ensure that they are all being hit by seeds. If properly positioned, you won't get knocbacked once Soul Flay starts up again.

 

Johnneke

We are scratching our head on what the exact mechanic of the knockback is, since our tank was getting knockbacked often and or kill videos I dont really notice this knockback happening, neither can I find much mention about the knockback anywhere

 

chiefwigum

We are running the same setup and so far it has been working great since we've been able to pick up the reflection adds right as they spawn, leading to no deaths.

 

Natural

I would suggest making an empty spot in the center of your group for the bubble. In phase 3/4 you will want this area to be as meteor-free as possible. You can then place your MT in front of the safe spot (if he is melee) and if he gets knocked back it will be in an empty area. This will minimize fire bloom damage when the tank is knocked around.

I wou