Regarding the server first achievements, the best idea I've seen so far seemed to be the one where you include everyone in groups 6-8 as well. If you're worried about achievement selling, just add some more restrictions to those in groups 6-8 eg.
1) Must have equipment with average ilvl within 10 ilvls of the group 1-5 average
2) Must be at level cap and attuned to that instance
3) Must not be on the same account as someone in groups 1-5
4) Must either be online at time of kill, or offline for no more than 10 minutes at time of kill

Regarding the timed achievements, I think what Tigole meant was he didn't want to force raid groups to be stuck in situations where players could not take breaks for periods as long as 2-4 hours. Thats not the same as you spending 4 hours in one night fully focused on learning M'uru - you can still take bio breaks in between wipes. A better comparison is the Zul 'Aman bear run - until Sunwell came out, taking a bio break anytime during the time trial was probably a no-no. Incidentally, I do remember a 5 hour timed clear for Vael-Nef during the AQ scepter quest, but that was so easy the timer might as well have not existed.


Edit: Btw, just to confirm, are the exploration Achievements retroactive? ie. if I have the entire map revealed now, will I get credit for all of it? Would be really annoying to figure out which parts of the map I haven't been to in WOTLK otherwise.

There is really no way to reward server-first achievements to only the people that deserve them. Either they are vulnerable to selling, or people that deserve credit will be deprived of it. They should be guild-based or not included at all.

Perhaps they should make them first server rather than server first achievements. That is reward the server that first downs a boss or completes an event. Tie it in with the original Sunwell idea where everyone contributes to making it happen, not just the raiding population, and I think it's a winner.

I don't really think it would be that vulnerable to selling. I know my guild at least wouldn't sell an exclusive server first achievement/title to anyone outside of our guild. Who would want to water down their achievements by selling it? I suppose there are some people but I really don't think it would be an issue.

Besides, how would you know? Sometimes you think you're far off on a fight, get over a difficult part in the middle, and drag out a win. Other times you think you're close and then get hung up on a problem you never knew existed.

On some servers, even knowing *who* to buy from would be as hard as knowing *when* to buy.

Personally I am not a fan of the idea of "Guild-wide" achievements for a few reasons. The most petty of these is that there are alot of casuals in any guild I have been in, and it would annoy me even more that these people get credit for stuff they had nothing to do with. There are other reasons but the main reason I don't like the idea, is because in Wotlk, I will either be in a 10man guild casually doing 25's, or in a 25man guild doing 10's with friends, either way I forsee problems awarding guilds for achievements of individuals.

Eg. I am progressing away in 25mans in some guild, when me and 7 friends deciede to 7man KT would everyone in the RL's guild, who had nothing to do with it get the achievement (etc)

Or highest repair bill paid?

What do you guys think about Blooper Achievements, in a similar fashion to Feats of Strength?

As long as the titles were light hearted and not degrading, and the achievement itself is not indicative of any shortcomings of the player, I think it might be another fun addition.

Trigger Happy - Use the Medallion of the Alliance/Horde while not under any control or movement impairing effects.

Breaking Rule #1 of TBC - Die while standing in a fire.

Billy Took My Lunch Money - Eat 100 underspore pods after hitting level 80.

Left Hanging - Allow a summoning channel to fully time out.

Didn't Read The Fine Print - Buy a stable slot if you are any class but a hunter.

They'd be hidden like the Feats of Strength, but every now and the game'll call you on stupid stuff.

I like the idea, but obvious shortcoming is that information about every discovered 'Blooper' will become immidiately widespread and then everybody will repeat it since these feats are easy to reproduce. I can imagine that every competitive player will have to do all the stupid stuff (probably on every character) which eliminates the fun - JoeInBank you just checked obviously did not bought a pet slot because he didn't knew better when he was young, he just repeated the action among with 8mil others to get 5 additional Achievement Points. It may proide for some random fun but overall probably does not worth a hassle.

Edit: Also, 'Breaking Rule #1 of TBC' should be renamed to simply 'Breaking rule #1'.

I am wondering if it might be possible using Achievment/Server First tracking technology (if implemeted) to have an 'honour board' for dungeons and raids. Not tied to a character per-se, but just a public record of things like:

1. First group (if a 5 man include names) or guild to kill boss X or Y.
2. First guild to finish raid X or Y.
3. Fastest group to finish instance X or Y, with time.
4. Fastest guild to finish raid X or Y, with time.


And things of that nature. Or at least tie them into the character achievments if possible. I think it would be a lot of fun, especially in 5 and 10mans, to have competition between various people on the server for PvE objectives other than server firsts, and it would add a bit to re-doing content if there were vanity targets that can be consistently bettered, rather than a one off achievement unlock.

People will complain that these things won't be avaliable to PUGs and certain group compsitions and the time, but as Gurg said: "Let's be realistic. Most people aren't going to complete these achievements in a PUG."

Is pixel decorations really worth wasting the time - however small an amount of time - of everyone else in the battleground though?

Consensual group efforts to get one guy an achivement is one thing, but battlegrounds aren't all that big on letting you choose your teammates. Sorry to be sounding like a broken record, but if Peter the Shadowpriest needs to die once before he starts playing proper, that's a waste everyone else's time. There's also plenty of situations in which the death of Peter the Shadowpriest is beneficial to his team at large, because his mad suicide dash into 5 enemies made them all dismount instead of going mounting for the flag carrier.

Achievements - Character

Reputations tab; nitpicky, but this really needs Exalted Shen'dralar, Darkmoon, Thorium Brotherhood, Ravenholdt, and goblin towns represented. Brood/Hydraxian/Zandalar are already represented under Raids if I'm not mistaken. While the list above may seem extremely silly to attempt, hey, so's Timbermaw, and that's in. :P

The more questionable ones to include would be Wintersaber (Alliance-only), and Bloodsail/Centaur clans at max Honored, since that's not exalted-achievable, and relies on nonstandard mechanics.

The most questionable of all to include would be 20999/21000 Bloodsail, which is an insane feat in its own right. (Sup kill a mob 21000 times with a 5-min respawn)

Edit: Actually, the more I think of it, the more I'd lean towards Shen'dralar/Darkmoon/Ravenholdt being Feats of Strength rather than Achievements. Sure, they're still doable, but at least they won't show up grayed out taunting people browsing the panel.

Edit^2: My bad, all raid-related exalted reputations are also FoS and not regular achievements.

Absolutely not. If someone can connect your personal name to that data it could open lot's of difficulties, just like right now some stuff in your FaceBook page can. Stuff like /played time is really a bad thing, as it would allow to monitor the progress on that for example, especially if the data is accessible in the armory. It is often quite easy to match a character to an email-adress via some forums and to create lots of interesting data (like at what time the person is at home / is sleeping etc.)

Given the unlikelihood that any two characters of the same gender/class/race combination would have the exact same set of achievements, this also makes it a much simpler matter for Armory crawler websites such as WoWProgress to track server transfers.

I want to see them get rid of the points aspect of the achievements. The achievement itself should be the goal, not a means. If there are points, that means there will be something to spend the points on, which means farming achievements will be just like honor. Just having the achievement itself, and whatever related reward it might specifically include, should be enough.

Regarding server-firsts, it doesn't need to go to the guild, or to people in standby. You know your guild did it, you know if you were on standby and made a difference, and maybe you'll be a little bitter, but the achievement needs to go to the characters that were part of the kill, nothing more. It's an achievement that character did. "I was in guild xxx which got server first kill" should not be a character achievement.

If they want to add a guild based achievement as well, that's great, but that should be its own category. The only real point of having a server first achievement is just to formalize what most people will already know, and to eliminate possible questions over who actually did it first. In fact, having guild based achievements would be great, and could be the type of things that unlocks teleports like people have suggested. Have the server first and faction first achievements, but also just achievements for clearing instances, total number of people with certain things, and so on. These would never be tagged to a character, but maybe have a "Guild Inspection" screen similar to /who.

I really hope the exalted with all faction races achievement comes with a title like "Hero of the Alliance," I've been wanting something like that to be put in ever since they made titles.

I love the fact that people are saying achievements will make battlegrounds full of people just wanting to do them. As if battlegrounds are full of anything other than honor and token farmers now? Maybe if they give an extra token to everyone in the BG if someone completes an achievement, everyone will be happy. At least now Joe Idiot will be trying to cap a flag instead of just /dance for his token.

I disagree with this. As long as the achievement points can only be used to get or buy things that aren't making your character more powerful, but are instead the sort of things that would appeal to "collector"-type players who will be pursuing achievements in the first place. I like points as some way of distinguishing among achievements of varying difficulty. "Kill a player" should be a different magnitude than "kill 100000 players." And "kill Van Cleef" shouldn't be the same as "kill Arthas."

I don't know that actually "spending" achievement points is a good dynamic, since achievement points are finite and it's not like you can farm them in infinite quantities with infinite time. It might make more sense to have a system of thresholds, where getting 100 points unlocks some stuff, 250 unlocks more, 500, 1000, etc. Things like a unique tabard, titles, unique mounts, and toys/gimmicks like some of the ones you see as part of holiday world events. Basically nothing that makes your character powerful, but a way of showing off your OCD-ness, which by definition will cater to the sort of person who is going to be OCD about achievements to begin with.

Yeah, but in WotLK it seems that some of the defined areas for opening the map up have become more exact. For example, on live, I had Alcaz Island in Dustwallow viewable on my map, but apparently I never explored the island itself. In alpha/beta, it was not viewable on my map and I had to explore the island to open it up.

Each zone has a checklist of the specific areas you have to explore to unlock the achievement and it shows which ones you are missing.

It would be nice to have something similar to tell you which quests you are missing, but a checklist of 100+ items is probably too much.

I like this idea a lot. I'd be loathe to spend a large amount of points on something, because I suspect that Blizzard would patch in something new and cool that I had to have, but had no way to get more points.

Too many of those listed come across as merely statistics. Along the lines of just having fun with SQL key words and a good relational database. Plus, how many things can be achievements if they simply have to occur in the first place? Some also look like they could change daily if applied to a server's population. Some categories won't make sense since everyone is constrained by the availability of the same equipment and under the hood code.

I do think the points gained in PvP related activities needs to be separate from PvE. Both should have their own sets of rewards and titles. While the non game play affecting rewards are interesting there needs to be assurance that they don't set the point values so high that people are forced into areas of the game they do not enjoy or just totally locked out from ever achieving the "cool" rewards.

On a side note, that killing title for tuskarrs so reminds me of Asheron's Call.

Quick question, does anyone know if the small island in Tanaris you visit for the AQ Scepter quest chain counts toward the achievement for discovering all of Tanaris? Exploration seems very much like a solo achievement and it would be odd for one to require an old world raid and farming up to neutral with the brood to finish. (Assuming you didn't raid pre BC.)

It does not count. I certainly never went there as a draenei.

Or you could have something that chains achievements, for example:

Part 1. Clear Hyjal in 1.5hrs to save an NPC. Upon rescuing him, he gives each raid member
an RP item (helm/chest/weapon) that has basically crappy stats.

Part 2. Wearing that item to kill Illidan (insert possibilities here) within a timeframe.



Basically a veiled item/stat nerf that actually can be played out with RP.