First off, gratz to you guys on your success in BWL. Its good to see a horde guild overcoming the bullshit easy mode stuff that alliance is riding.

My guild (www.relentlessguild.org) has done all the good stuff in MC and is working on BWL. From the little we know about Vael we should kick his ass pretty easy and I can see us following in your shoes and getting broodlord eventually. Unfortunately we are stopped cold at Razorgore.

Don't get me wrong, I don't want in depths strats or tips or anything, I am just asking if you guys are doing this encounter straight up. It seems like a lot of horde guilds may be cheesing this encounter by exploiting a bug that makes adds stop coming. We stumbled upon this bug in our attempts and even though some of us knew about it and knew we could get a shot at fighting razorgore, we opted to reset the instance instead of even messing around with it.

Unfortunately we have some real scum bag guilds on our server that will do anything to progress ahead of us (we hold all the firsts on horde side). We use a kiting strategy at the moment with the help of the dragon to sleep drag adds.

If you could confirm that you guys are breaking eggs and possibly let me know if a kiting strategy isn't a total waste of time it would really set my mind at ease. Its hard to get people to raid consistently in BWL until we are getting drops and the last thing we want to do is resort to cheesing the encounter to keep ahead of our less honest competition.

thanks and gl in bwl.

Well the apparent bug i speak of is that if the last person to die is controlling razorgore. All the adds despawn and he is standing in the middle of the room waiting to be engaged. Either way thats great to hear that it can be done and gives me some confidence for the future.

In regards to a class specific kiting strategy: It seems that if executed correctly you could last long enough to break the eggs and still have enough of the raid alive to fight Razor(who is supposedly a bitch). I am not looking for spoilers, but continuing to encourage my guild to kill him this way and later finding out that we are totally wrong would be a heartbreaker, and love for a fellow shaman? (dredger ftw! :P )

ps: The reason we have decided to take work on a kiting strategy is simply because there is a unit cap of adds. Considering razor is a really hard fight and killing/cc'ing all these adds indefinetly would destroy our mana pools, we figured that blizzard had intended them to be kited. Also the maintinence is supposed to cap the number of dragons up at one time also leads me to believe kiting = win.

Well, I wouldnt say we hold *every* server first, but we hold every non exploited server first.

We pride ourselves on beating encounters with the tools provided to us, not by abusing bugs

EDIT: Elfan is correct, on the first day of BWL Exordium beat us to Razorgore and Vael kills, but that was when they were both super easy ;)

None of us really consider the pre-upgraded BWL to count for much though

I thought Exo got the bwl server first patch day?

In regards to the dredger, we killed domo about 3-5 times before any other horde. And wouldn't you know they got a dredger about a month before me...(it went for the most dkp of any item yet ><)

you silly elf, go kill some demons.


and plzzzz if u need a buff ill be there.

damn 5 min buffs GRRGAR

That's an interesting bug. But yes, when you are over-run with adds that you can't kill, the best way to deal with that is to find the best way to keep them occupied and not doing any damage, and kiting certainly helps :)

And I spent my JP on that piece of shit Fang instead of a dredger. I regret it every moment I play :(

I still have no idea how that could have been possible with the Horde camping the orb from server up to server down, then from the next server up until we killed Razorgore. However, if there is any proof of that, then that's awesome. It's about time some alliance-side people started doing something commendable.

We killed him first post-lag-fix though.

see we did the smart thing, we went and raided mc... kinda

stupid patch days and UI's!

No, we actually didn't.

"Server firsts" are irrelevant except for dickwaving. The only two that matter are Onyxia and Ragnaros (and perhaps Lucifron, since it signalled raid-readiness). Nothing matters until Nefarian. Hey EJ guys: Less dickwaving, please? Thanks.

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As for the OP's question: Yes, we've had the encounter bug out on us several times in the way you describe. Every time it has happened, we have someone soulstone/reinc, control Razor to break the remaining eggs, and then die to him to reset the event, so that we don't have to reset the whole instance to get another clean try.

Yes, you can pretty easily cheese past the encounter by abusing this, but it's going to get fixed before long, and then you're back to being stuck at the entrance to the zone since you never learned how to do the eggs. The loot in BWL doesn't really justify using cheesy tactics/exploits for one-time kills -- if you can't repeat it, it's not worth much.

Anyway, kiting. Yes. That much should be obvious. Kiting from the very start would be a mistake, since you can kill and otherwise keep all the spawns locked down for a while. There comes a time when there are simply too many to kill, and you need to transition to a focus on control. Deciding when that point is, figuring out the best control tactics, and executing that transition smoothly, are what the fight is all about. Good luck.

Sup duds? :D