The WotLK profession thread - Page 115

songster · 02/17/09, 4:53 AM

Always as separate items.

Riveth · 02/17/09, 7:45 AM

Originally Posted by Grayson Carlyle

A draw of greater than 1 can be seen in old Titanium Nodes (example):

Name	Draw	Count	Name	Draw	Count	Name	Draw	Count	Name	Draw	Count	Name	Sum
TitaniumNode	-1	0	TitaniumOre	4	1	TitaniumElementChance							1
TitaniumElementChance	1	1	TitaniumElement	1	1	None							2
TitaniumElement	1	1	CrystallizedAir	1	1	CrystallizedFire	1	1	CrystallizedEarth	1	1	CrystallizedFire	4

Which could strike you rich and get you 4 assorted stacks of Crystallized X, or get you 3 singles of Crystallized Earth, or even nothing at all.

In your example, what would the difference between having a draw of 4 vs -4 for TitaniumElementChance be? Or would they mean the same thing?

Maybe a better way to ask is to use this example:

ClassName	Draw	Count	Name	Draw	Count	Name	Draw	Count	Name	Draw	Count	Name	Draw	Count	Name	Sum
BakoniteElement	1	1	WoodParticle	1	2	FireParticle	1	1	EarthParticle	2	3	MetalParticle	1	1	WaterParticle	8

Assume all the *Particle references are items

Would this imply that you have:
1:8 chance to get 1 Wood Particle
2:8 chance to get 1 Fire Particle
1:8 chance to get 1 Earth Particle
3:8 chance to get 2 Metal Particles (and always 2)
1:8 chance to get 1 Water Particle

Or did I misunderstand?

And how sure are you of this structure in WoW? Clearly they don't download the loot tables to the client, otherwise we would have perfect loot information and sites like Wowhead, Thottbot, WowDB, etc would not need to have clients that collect info.

Psykhe · 02/17/09, 8:00 AM

Originally Posted by Trifle

Usually when I get 2 blues at once its 2 different blues... eg a forest emerald and an autumn's glow. However if someone has seen 2 greens and 2 blues at once from the same prospect, then the theory above can fit, with the addition of an x% chance to get an extra table B gem as well. After all, 4 gems will be extremely unlikely, so it stands to reason alot of us won't have seen it personally.

I once had 2 scarlet rubies at once.

Grayson Carlyle · 02/17/09, 11:24 AM

Originally Posted by Riveth

In your example, what would the difference between having a draw of 4 vs -4 for TitaniumElementChance be? Or would they mean the same thing?

Or did I misunderstand?

And how sure are you of this structure in WoW? Clearly they don't download the loot tables to the client, otherwise we would have perfect loot information and sites like Wowhead, Thottbot, WowDB, etc would not need to have clients that collect info.

Yes, you are correct. There would be no difference between -4 and 4, as there is only one option to choose from.

Yes, to my knowledge the second table would result as you have suggested

I'm fairly certain that this structure is the basis for loot generation. It is known as fact that this is how it is done in Diablo II (which does include rules for generating a quantity in a stack; gold, arrows, bolts, etc... I have just forgotten those rules and don't have Diablo II installed anymore) and that it is not done like this in Warcraft III (which results in a noticeably different feel to loot). They already have all the tools from Diablo II to read/write/process the tables and all the loot generation in WoW can be traced backwards to fit into these rules (though, the cascading table structure can literally do anything you can possibly imagine, so that's not exactly evidence). Moreover, they can be traced back to follow very simple sets that neatly fall into this type of generation. Why would they go to the effort of using a different method to emulate the same result?

So, I'm mostly leaning on Occam's Razor: It's extremely fast, they have the tools and the loot patterns fit neatly into the simplest sets of cascading tables. Why wouldn't they use it?

Riveth · 02/20/09, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Grayson Carlyle

I'm fairly certain that this structure is the basis for loot generation. It is known as fact that this is how it is done in Diablo II [...] They already have all the tools from Diablo II to read/write/process the tables and all the loot generation in WoW can be traced backwards to fit into these rules (though, the cascading table structure can literally do anything you can possibly imagine, so that's not exactly evidence). Moreover, they can be traced back to follow very simple sets that neatly fall into this type of generation. Why would they go to the effort of using a different method to emulate the same result?

I found a nice reference to the Diablo II loot tables. They are close to what you posted but with a key difference that makes it somewhat easier to reverse them:

ClassName

Picks

Item1

Prob1

ItemN

ProbN

...

TotalProb

I suspect (and would love to have someone disprove) that there are two more columns per item, Min and Max. This give the range of stack sizes, each of which has an equal probability to drop. (So min 2, max 5 would have an average size of 3.5)

The loot window appears to give a strong hint as to the stack sizes. It looks like items will only show stacked in the loot window if they are from the same pick (with a max > 1). If they are not stacked, they they were from separate picks.

Prinsesa · 02/24/09, 4:37 AM

MMO-Champion just released several new profession craftables:

* Alchemy can craft a low level 10 hit rating battle elixir.

* Blacksmithing can now craft 3 new belts and 3 new boots, 1 each for physical DPS, tanking and Holy Paladin healing. Armor values match with ilevel 226 items.

* Blacksmithing can now also craft a Titansteel Spellblade (Dagger-type). Spell power value matches an ilevel 200 weapon.

* Enchanting can now craft a low level (Vision Dust and Lesser Nether Essence) 5 hit rating boot enchant, a level 49 BOE trinket with 24 hit rating, and a WOTLK-level spell power enchant for staves.

* Jewelcrafting can now craft a level 29, 11 hit rating amulet, as well as converting Black Diamonds into random (TBC?) gems.

* Leatherworking can now craft leather and mail versions of physical DPS belts, spell power belts, physical DPS boots and spell power boots. Armor values match with ilevel 226 items.

* Tailoring can now craft hit rating and Spirit-endowed versions of cloth spell power belts and boots. Armor values match with ilevel 226 items.

* Tailoring can now also craft a level 19 caster cloak.

The ilevel 226 items all use a heretofore unknown material: Runed Orbs. Given the ilevel of these items, one can assume that they're similar to Sunmotes and will drop in Ulduar.

Thairne · 02/24/09, 5:20 AM

Those Blacksmithing Items look nifty. Especially the DPS Plate Belt... Getting tired of waiting for a Razuvious Belt to drop.
Guess dropping Mining won´t seem such a good idea at least in a monetary view, they seem to keep using titansteel. It went close to unused anyway, so a needed addition.

Now, the question that remains... What is a runed orb? The naming similarity to Frozen Orb and it being used in craft recipes leads to believe its either a drop a'la Nether Vortex/Heart of Darkness/Sunmotes from Ulduar like above poster suspects or possibly through the Argent Dawn Tournament (purchasable with the Tier 8 Badges?)

Impeesa · 02/24/09, 6:05 AM

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

* Enchanting can now craft a low level (Vision Dust and Lesser Nether Essence) 5 hit rating boot enchant, a level 49 BOE trinket with 24 hit rating, and a WOTLK-level spell power enchant for staves.

Small correction here, the hit rating trinket appears to be Engineering-made, though it has no skill requirement to use. Not sure why MMOC has it listed under Enchanting.

Dalron · 02/24/09, 8:37 AM

With reference to the runed orbs, any speculation on whether they'll be BOE (like sunmotes) or BOP (as nether vortexes initially were)? I've not seen any recent posts on the Blizzard philosophy on these kind of materials recently but I wonder whether they might be BOP initially to require actual raiding to acquire them (rather than obtaining all the materials solely through the auction house) plus prevent the introduction of items that will be massively expensive on the AH and likely to promote gold buying? In the longer term, I'm sure they'll be BOE (as vortexes became).

However, if they do become BOE straight away, is it likely they'll be purchaseable via bages (valor?) and is it worth holding to the 25 man badges in case they become the currency with which to purchase runed orbs?

typobox · 02/24/09, 8:44 AM

I'm assuming they'll be BoE, since the resulting pieces are BoE. My impression from the 2.4 changes to rare crafting mats is that it wasn't really a "nerf" so much as a design change. I don't think Blizzard liked the whole "nether fee" system that evolved out of the BoP mats style of doing things.

Jubling · 02/24/09, 11:11 AM

I found this one in the spell database that MMO Champion seems to have missed:

Reticulated Armor Webbing
Requires Plate
Permanently inserts reticulated armor webbing into plate gloves, increasing armor by 800.

Attaching the armor webbing causes the gloves to become soulbound. An Engineering skill of 400 is required to keep the webbing active.

clavarnway · 02/24/09, 11:24 AM

Also this

Springy Arachnoweave
Permanently attaches a springy arachnoweave to a cloak, increasing spell power by 11 and allowing you to turn the cloak into a parachute to fall slowly for 10 sec.

The cloak can only be used once a minute and requires an Engineering skill of at least 350.

4LV · 02/27/09, 12:45 PM

Due to very limited download speed on my university-connection I have problems getting on the PTR.

Would anyone that has a character with blacksmithing please be kind enough to give us some examples of the increased stat allocation on the 1-300 skill level items?

(or any possible major material changes to say the 250-300 segment)

timski · 03/12/09, 11:01 PM

Game-mechanics junkies may wish to know that patch 3.1 changes the mechanics of the fishing skill required to cast and fish without get aways. It seems to now be:

The percentage chance of catching a fish when your fishing skill is below the skill required to fish without get aways = (current fishing skill as % of area's no-get-away skill) ^ 2.

In practice this makes Northrend fishing much less skill/gear-critical, while lures become much more important at skill 1.

There's further evidence and analysis here.

• sordee · 03/13/09, 3:34 PM

El,

I'm not sure if your analysis was able to predict this, but does caching "junk" give skillups or not?

I.e. can a person than ignore the lures at the start, sit in Dalaran, and keep getting a lot of junk to skill up to 300/400?