kysta

I love the idea of the system, because it creates a meaningful choice for the crafters, especially early in the expansion.

It'll be a major dilemma for some. Do you pick the powerful gem cut that everyone wants, that half the JC on the server are going to learn? Or do you take a more situational, less popular cut, but one which you will almost certainly be the only crafter with it for a few weeks?

 

PSGarak

Zugzwang. The play to make is to wait for everyone else to make their decisions and take that into account. You lose a few days of selling in order to gain a few more days of selling at a competetive advantage. It might also be useful to keep a few tokens lying around so that if a new market niche opens up you can have one week free reign while everyone else plays catch-up. I expect new niches to be mostly the result of patched changes to existing metas rather than changes in game content or metagame strategy, but they still happen and can be capitalized on.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Trifle

I hope there'll be other ways to get recipes... with the extreme numbers of gem cuts, only being able to get 1 per week (well, 5-8 days depending on what you're getting) seems awfully slow. I'm counting roughly 43? rare cuts on wowhead, so thats 7 months to get them all... assuming you do the daily every single day and skip all the meta gems.

In comparison in TBC I got all the rare cuts I was interested in inside a month (and I was pretty damn lazy, too), and the ones I wasn't interested in are all pretty cheap cuts.

I realise Blizzard are interested in differentiating crafters by having them know different recipes etc, however thats typically been more for epic recipes rather than rare ones... if I want to get my equipment gemmed and need to talk to 5 different people to do it, thats not diversification, thats pain in the ass.

 

kysta

I hope the recipes will also be available as random world drops. Well into the expansion they remained very nice and valuable drops when you found one while running an instance, it was always a nice surprise. Unlike most of the blue BoE weapons or armors, which in the later part of BC were worth more sharded than they were on the AH.

 

Anedris

Non-JCers like them as world drops because you get to sell them for a bunch of gold. JCers hate them as world drops because they have to spend a huge amount of gold to get started in their profession. (Exception to rich JCers and those able to corner the market who thus become rich as neither will have an issue with the money.)

If they do still make them available as world drops their value will be far far less than they were in BC, because anyone who doesn't want to pay can just do dailies for a week.

(Good change overall in my view. It was always a bit silly that a JCer had to fork out several thousand gold just to get the basic rare gem cuts.)

 

Valerys

JCers also hate them as world drops because everyone and their dog rolls on them in a party.

 

PSGarak

People seem to be talking about this as if it's JC-specific. Isn't is supposed to be how they want to do recipe distribution for all professions in the future? It's a viable distribution method for professions like JC, enchanting, and inscription. I'm a little less sure how they could make it apply to things like tailoring, BS, and LW. There aren't usually very many non-BoP items that are in high demand, and the there are about two "sellable" pieces each in LW and tailoring (leg enchants). While Ench, JC, and Inscription can use this system to moderate market demand, tailor/LW/BS using this system would really only limit the rate at which the crafter themselves can make us of it. Unless those three professions start getting more end-game-relevant gear to make, which would tilt the game away from instances in a way that blizzard probably wouldn't like to do.

http://sig.gamerdna.com/quizzes/INFL...erks/Garak.png

 

Brio

If they did something like primal nether/nether vortexes (before being able to buy with badges) they could easily do it with those professions as well. Just have the tailor/LW/BS make the "unenchanted" version and require a BoP item to be used on it, making the item BoP. It would make the crafters money and keep people from being able to simply farm gold for their gear.

 

Promethius

That's an interesting idea. The mechanics already exist in the game somewhat as apexis shards and depleted crystal items. It brings back memories of items like skin of shadow, frayed abomination stitching and blood of heroes. I don't think it's a bad way of doing things, needing the person who wants to have the item put in a little more effort than just farming gold. The only downside would be if people complained that it unnecessarily forced them to participate in a niche that they didn't want to, i.e. 5 man heroics and 25 man mid level raids per the given examples, when all they want to do is experience solo content. Don't think that argument flies too well though if Blizzard's actually of the stance of encouraging participation in all forms of content and believing that participants in multiple areas should be better rewarded.

 

kysta

How would that make the crafter any money? If you craft the "mundane" version of the item without the rare BoP drop, and put it on the AH, then anyone who gets the rare BoP drop gets the item- I don't see where money passes hands to go to the crafter. The crafter certainly can't charge much profit if any for the "mundane" version of the item, because it'd be trivial to craft for anyone ,the hard part being the BoP piece. So where is the profit coming from?

Personally, I think the primal nether system was close to perfect. The flaw was that whether you got a nether or not for a run was entirely dependent on your group composition. Instead of making the primal nethers rolled items, I'd have liked to see each boss drop a "nether shard". The nether shard would be a quest item type drop that everyone in group can loot, and you could combine some number of shards to make a nether. Now you always get the same number of nethers per run, and it isn't dependant on winning a roll, and the nethers become sort of a crafting resource.

The other existing system I like is the simple cooldown mechanic- shadowcloth, spellcloth, and primal mooncloth were all valuable because of the cooldowns required. I'd like to see that idea of a mechanic taken and worked further- instead of being a cooldown you use or lose every 4 days, have "crafting points" that are earned daily up to a limit. For example 5 crafting points per day, maximum of 50 saved at any time. Doing a cloth transmute might cost 10 crafting points. Making an item that would have previously cost a nether would instead cost 40 crafting points in addition to normal mats. Or even do both systems- allow the crafter to spend 40 crafting points OR a nether instead.

 

KraxisSingular

Change that to "World's worst scope". Unless it affects melee of course, which seems unlikely.
The simple fact that Blizzard wants to add a Haste scope leaves me a little depressed. Haste is just about the most costly and least scaling stat for Hunter in Wrath. Yet they want us to get it. That appears to indicate that they don't really understand that situation. It is a horrible scope. And in general the scopes unveiled as actual downgrades in effect over the current scopes given that we need about 2.08 times the stats at 80. There better be even better scopes. Because these truly don't cut it. We go from 1.26% crit -> 0.87% crit and 1.90% hit -> 1.22% hit.


The glove enchant... *sigh* Haste again. Worthless more or less.

Stamina trinket appears to me a great melee trinket. Hunters are once again left standing around wondering where our version is.

The tanking goggles look to be pretty nice. The combined little things are also pretty nifty, but basing a profession on those is hardly effective.

Ammo looks nice. 10ish DPS up from MH ammo, but single stacks again? Come on now Blizzard, you can't be serious we are reverting to single stacks. Not so much a knock on Engineering than on Hunters in general.

The injectors appear to be decidedly expensive. Current injectors cost 2 knothide leather and 4 fel iron bars. These things look considerably more expensive. Not very conductive I would say.

Explosives look ok, though I must say they are a little on the weak side aside from the explosive decoy (the one thing I really like about the stuff posted).

Epic tanking gun... AGAIN??? I hope that is some sort of sick joke on their part. It is just not very friendly towards Hunters. Of course it could just be one of several guns, but we only have TBC to go by, and there we had one epic, also this one is BoP indicating it is a perk for Engies. The same goes for the Blue DPS gun. Wow, a very very marginal upgrade from my crossbow... So where are the good things?

If this is the average appearance of Engineering then I guess I ahve to find another profession, as it is clearly not very good for Hunters anymore. Which is sad as I really like my flying machine, but I can't keep a profession for a simple mount skin, that would be plain stupid on my part.

 

Valerian

This is happening with nearly all the gear though. Look at the LW patches. Each will also be providing less crit at 80 than their counterparts at 70. This is due to the major scaling they did in ratings.

This enchant is rather weak unless your class scales well with haste. The rocket launcher "enchant" is exceptionally good though for dps classes. 15 agi is currently worth about 10 dps for my druid. The rocket launcher is worth 19 dps not including crits. With the consolidation of hit/crit this is going to likely be even better. Its a nice perk and sets the precedent for newer ones of these as the endgame progresses and other stats start producing more dps.

Im kinda wondering what "the noise from melee combat" actually means. Does it mean actually melee? Or just being near someone being meleed?

I'd expect this is just the first of them. Look at all the BS weapons and such. I don't see why they'd make the only profession that makes ranged weapons ONLY make a pretty poor gun. If it does stay as such, then yeah this is a pretty valid complaint.

 

KraxisSingular

I agree, the increase is somewhere around 40-50% for most gear enchants (the hit scope only increases by 33.3% though), however they have made no leg patches that are that horrible. I mean one class can effectively use scopes, yet that class shouldn't use one of them. Silly, no?

You are comparing what is essentially a lvl 60 enchant (as it was a top end enchant back then) to a lvl 80. Yes, it better be better. The thing we don't know if is this has a minumum range and/or cast time. In case of the first melee can't use it well in raids. In case of the second neither melee nor ranged would like it. In any case there is bound to be another agi enchant on gloves.

In regards to the trinket: What is near then? 20 yards? 30 yards? 40 yards? 40 yards would make this trinket proc for melee in situations where it would be wasted more or less. Same with 30. Imagine using it in an Arena or BG, sneaking around combat to get to some tasty healer and the trinket procs and runs out before you get there, it is after all only 10 seconds. And eventhough Hunters could use such a proc mechanic better even they wouldn't like it to proc when they aren't actually interested in it. The only 'safe' way is to make it proc when you are in melee. I'm assuming that Blizzard understands that.

Well the only current epic crfted ranged weapon is a tanking gun. There are quest blues that are better for DPS than it for Hunters, it is pretty good for BGs though, but who gears for BGs? So it is far from an impossible situation that this could happen again, after all it happened this time. There was plenty time to add some higher recipies for guns, but it didn't happen.

 

Brio

Just because the item the crafter made would be "unenchanted" doesn't mean it would have to be easy to make. It could require BoP as well. However, I have no intention of trying to turn this into a "coulda, woulda, shoulda" thread, so I'll just leave it at that.

And in regards to the last few posts, it's kind of hard to say what is and isn't good considering we don't have all the maths we need to figure out what is "good" or "bad."

 

Hildegard

Scopes having effects on melee would hurt rogues even more. It is kind of a shame that we have to sacrifice use bows, guns and crowsbows instead of throwing weapons or sacrifice DPS.

So unless something similar to scopes could be attached to throwing weapons these changes wouldn't really work well together with the new emphasize on throwing weapons and rogues (Fan of Knives for example). We have many things not really fitting, like a carrot on a stick speeding up a flying machine, but scopes on throwing weapons seem a bit too akward.

Hildegard Sprigglespruxx - Wissenschaftlerin am Institut für Pfuschkunde

http://forscherliga.wikia.com/wiki/Hildegard

 

Bonestorm

Fan of knives uses your melee weapons, not ranged. I would hope thou the scopes would only affect ranged, and they would make throwing weapons competitive or better than bows/guns/xbows as far as melee stats for rogues.

 

Trifle

Speaking as a JC, I liked them as world drops because I could pay for them with the cuts I subsequently made within a relatively short time frame, and it allowed me to progress at the rate I chose, rather than being forced by an artificial restraint to only be able to get a maximum of 1 recipe per 5 days. Thats also assuming I don't slack off and do actually log on every day to do the dailies as well.

I would hope they remain as world drops, but are also available from the dailies. Or something similair.

 

Oscarvil

They won't because you can't autoshoot thrown weapons on a hunter.

 

McInaction

The scopes will almost certainly only effect ranged. It would be rather silly for blizzard to make the same mistake twice, like it did with the biznick's scope from molten core.

 

Bonestorm

What does that have to do with scope haste not affecting melee, or thrown weapons having better melee stats?

 

Oscarvil

I thought you were implying that hunters would be rolling on thrown weapons over melee because they'd be able to scope them. Reading your post again I was dead wrong. Apologies.

I'm going to go ahead and concur with McInaction tho, why fix scopes only to work on ranged then break it again? It's not like using a bow or gun in PvE is that terrible anyway, it'll just be one more thing to enchant.

 

Hildegard

We have class abilities or with deadly throw at least one of them and a new talent that allows to interrupt spells with Deadly Throw even without the PVP gloves. It's mostly no big deal but having a ranged snare or snare plus interrupt is one more ability I can use and having to sacrifice it because on nearly every level the bow/gun/crossbow has better stats than my throwing weapon.

It wouldn't be of any disadvantage for anyone if throwing weapons had competitive stats. But that is not really the topic here.

Hildegard Sprigglespruxx - Wissenschaftlerin am Institut für Pfuschkunde

http://forscherliga.wikia.com/wiki/Hildegard

 

Terp

I don't think this has been mentioned, but the Glove, Cloak, and Boot Engineering enchants seem rather explicitly tradeable goods. As nice as not being tempted to take up Engineering is, I really think this takes away from the profession. The boot enchant especially seems strong considering other options.

 

Atep

maybe these "enchants" will be usable by other engineers only. In the past, other engineering items were BoE, but had a skill requierement.

 

• Chicken

All of these enchants mention in their description "allowing a skilled engineer to <effect>". In other words, they're BoE, but they're still exclusive to engineers.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of