The WotLK profession thread - Page 27

Jheherrin · 08/12/08, 5:04 AM

Originally Posted by Trifle

Well yes and no... if you have 5 enchanters in your group, they can all use their ring enchants. But if you have 5 leatherworkers in a group, 4 of them are wasted.

Oh, and why are 4 of the leatherworkers wasted?

If tinnitus was the only leatherworking change I would agree with you, but it is pretty obvious from the recipies that we have seen so far that there are leatherworker only recipes that match the enchanting rings buffs.

What you are doing here is comparing Enchanting buffs with a leatherworking nerf (tinnitus) while ignoring the leatherworking buffs (bop leg armors), hardly a fair comparison.

Zurgat · 08/12/08, 6:19 AM

Originally Posted by Jheherrin

Oh, and why are 4 of the leatherworkers wasted?

If tinnitus was the only leatherworking change I would agree with you, but it is pretty obvious from the recipies that we have seen so far that there are leatherworker only recipes that match the enchanting rings buffs.

What you are doing here is comparing Enchanting buffs with a leatherworking nerf (tinnitus) while ignoring the leatherworking buffs (bop leg armors), hardly a fair comparison.

Close but not "quite", 40 stats for enchanting, 40 stats for blacksmithing, 25 for skinning and mining, and 33.2 or so for the leatherworking leg enchant. The drums have a 30 sec effect with a 2 min cd, so in theory 2 players in the party could rotate the drums.

Jerry · 08/12/08, 8:07 AM

Another tidbit about glyphs taken from the latest build:

The ability to remove a glyph has been implemented (by shift-right clicking a slot). This yields a Popup that asks the following question :

CONFIRM_REMOVE_GLYPH = "Are you sure you want to remove %s? This glyph will be destroyed in the process.";

Fragged · 08/12/08, 8:11 AM

Originally Posted by Zurgat

Close but not "quite", 40 stats for enchanting, 40 stats for blacksmithing, 25 for skinning and mining, and 33.2 or so for the leatherworking leg enchant. The drums have a 30 sec effect with a 2 min cd, so in theory 2 players in the party could rotate the drums.

I don't follow - Tinnitus lasts for 2 minutes starting on application of the drum buff, right? So at the end of those 2 minutes the drums are off cooldown, what rotation are you suggesting? Unless I'm missing something the new situation for drums is ideally you'll want 1 leatherworker per group in a 25 man for drums, and ideally everyone else is 2 other professions with bigger benefits (not mining/skinning/herbalism, though even those three are less bad than they are now, certainly I think a tank could more easily justify keeping mining in wotlk.)

• Chicken · 08/12/08, 10:19 AM

Originally Posted by Jerry

Another tidbit about glyphs taken from the latest build:

The ability to remove a glyph has been implemented (by shift-right clicking a slot). This yields a Popup that asks the following question :

I'd guess that isn't that odd, since some glyphs have both negative and positive effects it's understandable the option is there to just remove them without replacing them.

Hylo · 08/12/08, 10:44 AM

Originally Posted by Chicken

I'd guess that isn't that odd, since some glyphs have both negative and positive effects it's understandable the option is there to just remove them without replacing them.

I believe this means that glyphs work the same way as gems - otherwise you could just move that glyph to your inventory (and then destroy it if you wish). In other words: if you wish to reglyph a slot, the old one will be destroyed. Why else would they implement a completely new dialogue for that?

Seeing that some glyphs are mandatory for more competetive playing (some PvP glyphs, taunt-resist glyph for tanking etc.) you end up in a situation where you are spending lots of gold to glyphs if they don't make material requirements for top end glyphs trivial. And to be honest, which crafting profession has it's most powerfull craftables cheap to make?

Terp · 08/12/08, 11:28 AM

The LW vs Enchanting thing seems like an oversight based on item budget more than anything else. Having two rings games the cost of stat increase, leaving LW behind. I'm sure it's pretty obvious but the item budget for a single 30 stat increase (About what LW gets) is exactly equal to the budget for two 20 stat gains.

Jess · 08/12/08, 11:28 AM

I actually hope their glyphing philosophy is that such a degree of specialization should be expensive to change (ie. require the purchase of all new glyphs). I like the notion that you identify with your character in terms of being primarily a holy paladin/feral druid/combat rogue, and the cost of re-glyphing would reflect that. If you can just switch spec/gear/glyphs cheaply and on a whim, and be a completely optimal healer one minute and optimal tank the next, that detracts somewhat from personalizing your toon to be very good at particular things.

I guess that's contrary to the min-maxing philosophy, nevertheless I feel that personalization is an important aspect of mmo character development and ought to be protected to a certain extent.

Duilliath · 08/12/08, 11:35 AM

Originally Posted by Jess

I actually hope their glyphing philosophy is that such a degree of specialization should be expensive to change (ie. require the purchase of all new glyphs). I like the notion that you identify with your character in terms of being primarily a holy paladin/feral druid/combat rogue, and the cost of re-glyphing would reflect that. If you can just switch spec/gear/glyphs cheaply and on a whim, and be a completely optimal healer one minute and optimal tank the next, that detracts somewhat from personalizing your toon to be very good at particular things.

I guess that's contrary to the min-maxing philosophy, nevertheless I feel that personalization is an important aspect of mmo character development and ought to be protected to a certain extent.

So... one encounter I DPS it up and prefer DPS Glyphs. Next encounter I tank and prefer Tank glyphs. All fine and dandy, can even live with having to settle with one pair of Glyphs there. Now, the next day we're short on healers and I respec Healer and have to Reglyph yet again. In the weekend, I go hit the Arenas and ... well, waddayaknow, I gotta reglyph again ?

I honestly fail to see what's the fun in there, especially since my gear -will- remain enchanted and lying about when not using it.

Cadfael · 08/12/08, 11:37 AM

Well it really all depends how this "switch your spec" thing is supposed to work, that hopefully will be implemented to test soon.

If we get two glyph sets as well, there won't be any cries. If however you can switch talent trees at little cost but you have only one glyph set then there is a problem.

I doubt people will cry when they have one raidspec (say healer) and then their solo-spec with now not that great glyphs. It's fine, the outside world is less cumbersome. You are not as good as someone specialized fully but who cares really ? This won't work however if you have a raid and an arena spec, both which you are supposed to have somewhat maximized if you take it seriously. Then you will need to re-glyph all the time and that is now entirely depending on the costs of the glyphs. If they are cheap, no problem. If they are not, then we just moved the respec cost to somewhere else. It might even be more expensive or troublesome if you depend on other players to provide you with the glyphs.

I don't particularly care that you can only overwrite or remove glyphs, but I do worry a bit with regards to the talent switching / respeccing.

Vontre · 08/12/08, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Jess

I guess that's contrary to the min-maxing philosophy, nevertheless I feel that personalization is an important aspect of mmo character development and ought to be protected to a certain extent.

Normally it is, but this game simply isn't designed to support that. What you're suggesting basically boils down to "grindfest". Sorry to disappoint.

Fondren · 08/12/08, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Jess

I actually hope their glyphing philosophy is that such a degree of specialization should be expensive to change (ie. require the purchase of all new glyphs). I like the notion that you identify with your character in terms of being primarily a holy paladin/feral druid/combat rogue, and the cost of re-glyphing would reflect that. If you can just switch spec/gear/glyphs cheaply and on a whim, and be a completely optimal healer one minute and optimal tank the next, that detracts somewhat from personalizing your toon to be very good at particular things.

I guess that's contrary to the min-maxing philosophy, nevertheless I feel that personalization is an important aspect of mmo character development and ought to be protected to a certain extent.

I disagree. The expense and hassle of re-specializing has always been a big problem for people who try to enjoy more than one aspect of the game. This is especially true for support classes like tanks and healers who may wish to farm or DPS or PvP every once in a while.

Hopefully they will give us the ability to switch between two sets of inscriptions to match our changable specs.

Nezralix · 08/12/08, 11:42 AM

It does seem odd that they'd suggest implementing easily-swappable talent specs to let players participate in different aspects of the game, and then also implement a glyph system that significantly hinders one's ability to engage in those different aspects.

Jess · 08/12/08, 11:44 AM

Originally Posted by Duilliath

So... one encounter I DPS it up and prefer DPS Glyphs. Next encounter I tank and prefer Tank glyphs. All fine and dandy, can even live with having to settle with one pair of Glyphs there. Now, the next day we're short on healers and I respec Healer and have to Reglyph yet again. In the weekend, I go hit the Arenas and ... well, waddayaknow, I gotta reglyph again ?

I honestly fail to see what's the fun in there, especially since my gear -will- remain enchanted and lying about when not using it.

On the other hand, if there are no trade-offs to be made and everyone can have every glyph and switch them at will, is there really anything interesting about the profession? In that case you may as well just build glyph functionality into the base skills and save everyone a few clicks.

• sadris · 08/12/08, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by Jess

On the other hand, if there are no trade-offs to be made and everyone can have every glyph and switch them at will, is there really anything interesting about the profession? In that case you may as well just build glyph functionality into the base skills and save everyone a few clicks.

Glyphs are talent points, that you buy with gold, nothing more. They are only "interesting" due to their novelty.