The WotLK profession thread - Page 31

Vasala · 08/12/08, 10:50 PM

I really do not like the idea of glyphs being destroyed when switching them. I would much rather see the inscription system just add a new spell book tab where you learn the glyphs and then chose which ones are active. The costs would just be upgrading glyphs while leveling if there were multiple levels of them. Anything that involves having to buy new glyphs to be optimal in whatever role you are playing is just adding another consumable cost to raiding.

The changes to alchemy and leatherworking are aimed at reducing the consumable costs that raiders face to maximize their potential in progression content. Having glyphs be something that has to change with spec or potentially from boss to boss just replaces the costs that have been reduced with a new cost. As a hybrid I will be very disappointed if inscription does end up as a respecing or different boss fight "tax". As others have said while you need different gems / enchants for different roles those are linked to the gear that they are on so get switched with the gear and not constantly repurchased from respec to respec or fight to fight.

My suggestion is for glyphs to be a purchase once type of thing with a switching mechanism. The constant sell items for inscription would be the statistic scrolls and the enchanting scrolls. I could see buying new inscriptions to upgrade old ones as a character levels up or as they advance to higher tier content and new glyphs become available.

Paprikka · 08/12/08, 10:53 PM

Originally Posted by Ellyh

Personally I think that the glyph of XYZ spell approach is going to come back to bite blizzard in the ass. Just from the number of recipies that an inscriptor needs to learn.

Currently we have 15+ glyphs per class, 150 recipies minimum. multiple levels of scrolls accross 5 stats, assume 5 levels of craftable scrolls, another 25 recipies, various profession related recipies inks, parchments, enchant scrolls another 25+ recipies. And this doesn't even include the inevitable useful while leveling things they need to add for new characters leveling inscription. Especially if they want class related boosts along the way. As things are currently going it looks like a maxed out inscriptor could easily have more than 300 recipies to learn which is a LOT of recipies compared to say tailoring.

I was wondering how they were going to handle this as well. Nearly every rare gem cut for jewelcrafting is a world drop and there's a good number of them. Wotlk is going to have even more types of gem cuts, and inscription as you said is going to have a large amount of glyphs alone. What I'm hoping to see, especially if they make a large amount world drops again, is combining a number of recipes into a single one. For instance, instead of finding just the pure +spirit cut, you would instead find something like [Big Book of Blue Cuts: Volume 1]. Or a book of Balance glyphs or the like.

Calantus · 08/12/08, 10:55 PM

Originally Posted by kysta

Examples? I am sure that there are one or two particular weirdos who retrain a profession once or twice, but can you show me even one single raiding guild that has an entire raid with enchanted rings and none of them have enchanting?

edit:
Also, please note my specific wording: "Even the most hardcore raiders are not leveling up enchanting to enchant rings and then dropping it to go back to the optimal profession for their role every time they get a new ring"

A person who does this once near the end of a raiding career and enchants all his rings at once before dropping enchanting is a little crazy but I could see it happening. What I don't see happening is a raider doing this every single time he/she upgrades a ring, starting with the 5 man blue rings, working up to Karazhan gear and through the whole PVE ladder, such that by the end he has retrained enchanting some ten or more times.

There are several who do it and post on these forums. And they do it every tier. For actual post links you'd need to be a benefactor, but you can take my word for it that I wouldn't make up something so easily refuted by anyone who is a benefactor.

Prinsesa · 08/12/08, 11:27 PM

You are under the assumption that blizzard wants you to reset your glyphs every time you change roles.

Why wouldn't we assume this in the face of everything else Blizzard has done (or has said they're planning on doing) with regards to talent respecs, which are of the same role-changing importance as Glyphs?

Tyvi · 08/12/08, 11:38 PM

Really, is there anyone here that is opposed to having 2 Glyph sets tied to your current spec (of which there will be 2 you can switch around with)? Keep in mind, that 2 isn't all that much either for Hybrids who generally have 3 specs they can switch around (plus a PvP spec for each of the 3 roles). If you want to argue the gold sink argument, then how about if I say that they should make the first purchase of Glyphs incredibly expensive to compensate for the fact that you will not replace them in a long time? I'd be more than happy with that solution because it eases the pain of respeccing/reglyphing and you won't have to fill your bag with yet another reagent. Bag space is a rarity still, and keep in mind that we are still running around with atleast one 16 slot bag. :P

Copernicus · 08/13/08, 1:21 AM

Originally Posted by Paprikka

I was wondering how they were going to handle this as well. Nearly every rare gem cut for jewelcrafting is a world drop and there's a good number of them. Wotlk is going to have even more types of gem cuts, and inscription as you said is going to have a large amount of glyphs alone. What I'm hoping to see, especially if they make a large amount world drops again, is combining a number of recipes into a single one. For instance, instead of finding just the pure +spirit cut, you would instead find something like [Big Book of Blue Cuts: Volume 1]. Or a book of Balance glyphs or the like.

From the latest Blizzcast, Blizzard agrees with you on world drops being a problem.

---

Originally Posted by Blizzard

You have a way to get it, but a world drop you don’t have any control over. So we’re going to be easing off the world drops, I’m not sure about getting rid of them entirely but moving on to other systems. One of the system we’re considering as well is – so you have profession dailies for all of your professions, and what those end up being I’m not sure, but then when you do that daily you get a token. Then on this vendor there’s maybe 20 recipes, and they cost [maybe] 25 tokens each. So you’ll start making decisions on how you want to spend those tokens and that will help differentiate you from everyone else just by your decisions rather than what you happened to have found or bought off the Auction House.

Gralin · 08/13/08, 3:41 AM

If frequent swapping looks "necessary", there may be another option than swappable templates or making the glyphs cheap... making the better ones seriously expensive, to the extent of being a goldsink to buy once.

The caveat here is that there have to be glyphs which are useful enough to all specs, or else the advantage given by (switching) glyphs has to be small enough to be, if not negligible, at least something you can do without.

I quite like this idea, as it would give some weight to the act of dropping a glyph in. But then I play a pure DPS class, and I wonder if it could be made acceptable to hybrids too.

Ellyh · 08/13/08, 3:45 AM

Probably not, certainly not if your a tank in pve and a healer in PvP. You just won't have any glyphs in common between the two specs.

The token system for rare recipies would be nice, allows for a steady accumulation of recipes without the pain of random alchemy discoveries or waiting for Moroes to drop his enchant.

Jheherrin · 08/13/08, 5:01 AM

I'm wondering if Glyphs are a way of avoiding the trivialisation of respec costs.
It is already easy enough for "most" players to respec on a regular basis, even multiple time for one raid.

Given the increase in gold from WotLK, blizzard obviously need to do something to prevent respec costs from being essentially nothing.

Having sets of glyphs tied to a specific spec is fine, so that you dont need to reglyph each time you spec swap, but if you reset one of those specs completely then the glyphs should go as well.
If blizzard do implement spec swapping then they will have to tie glyphs to a spec because some of the glyphs are dependent on talented spells.
They cannot expect you to have to reglyph if the spec swap works along similar lines to gear swaps (which is what has been indicated so far), that would be like saying you have to reenchant every time you gear swap.

Duilliath · 08/13/08, 5:20 AM

Originally Posted by Jheherrin

I'm wondering if Glyphs are a way of avoiding the trivialisation of respec costs.

Why ? It feels completely counter-intuitive to what Blizzard has done so far, which is to make life easier on everyone, from Joe Casual to Jack Hardcore.

They could've upped the Respec limit when TBC came. They did no such thing. Instead, they introduced the respecs costs dropping over time. They introduced more gold through dailies. They introduced more gold still from more dailies, upping the dailies limit and having raid bosses drop more money.
They are (talking about) introducing a free respec between two saved specs, which again defeats the monetary cost attached.

Why, in the light of all that, would they want to make respeccing more prohibitive ? They've repeatedly stated they like people participating in all parts of the game (much to the Arena crowd's dismay, as they're 'forced' into Battlegrounds). There is no single reason to consider they'd want to move away from that stance.

Darmon · 08/13/08, 5:27 AM

About glyph changing. One way to make it work both ways, is assigning charges to them. This way it will give a constant profession request, and on the other hand they give flexibilty to customize them as you want from fight to fight

Cadfael · 08/13/08, 5:37 AM

Talent respecs cap out at 50 Gold per change at the moment. It also takes a moderate amount of tedium to go to the trainer in the old world, but can be done in ~2 minutes. If the new talent switch thing plus glyph switching will cost more than that (while including change in gold's inflation) and takes significantly longer due to the reglyphing process (if it isn't included in the talent switching mechanism) then the new system fails. It's just that easy.

Inscriptors will be able to sell scrolls as a new consumable type and with the current way Alchemy is going to allow only one potion per fight, then they are basically already a second kind of consumable providers besides Alchemy, potentially even more sought after due to scrolls not surviving death. As such I don't exactly see the need that glyphs must be a consumable.

Houjit · 08/13/08, 5:41 AM

There's a line in the WotLK Beta Patch Notes that reads:

"Macros and key bindings are now saved server-side so there is no longer a need to reconfigure them when logging in using another computer."

Since we already know that Blizzard are looking at giving us the ability to swap between two talent specs, it's not inconcievable that Blizzard will extend this to give us two "Profiles" to swap between at a vendor in-game. Each profile stores your key bindings / macros / talent spec / glyphs.

If you swap your profile at the vendor all your key bindings etc. are set to go, you would just need to equip the correct gear.

Most players would use one profile (with possibly the second for PvP), the tradeoff being that if you use both profiles you would need to buy two sets of glyphs (and have two sets of gear).

ZeroWashu · 08/13/08, 6:12 AM

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

Why wouldn't we assume this in the face of everything else Blizzard has done (or has said they're planning on doing) with regards to talent respecs, which are of the same role-changing importance as Glyphs?

Because blizzard is also moving away from separate +heal +spelldamage items and instead will rely on talents to determine how the the items effects will be handled. I see this as a method to reduce the amount of gear people need to carry/hold and that leads into requiring less other character management.

I am curious about inscriptions, has anyone encountered inscriptions which only work on talent granted powers? Say for example a pyroblast specific inscription? Those would pose a problem if the talents specs were severely changed depending on the role.

Prinsesa · 08/13/08, 6:21 AM

Because blizzard is also moving away from separate +heal +spelldamage items and instead will rely on talents to determine how the the items effects will be handled. I see this as a method to reduce the amount of gear people need to carry/hold and that leads into requiring less other character management.

Exactly. Why add more if everything you've done so far has been moving towards streamlining?

I am curious about inscriptions, has anyone encountered inscriptions which only work on talent granted powers? Say for example a pyroblast specific inscription? Those would pose a problem if the talents specs were severely changed depending on the role.

There have been Glyphs released for Mangle, Swiftmend, Starfall, Lightwell, Circle of Healing, Mind Flay, Holy Nova, Spirit of Redemption, Mana Tide Totem, Stormstrike, Totem of Wrath, Seal of Command, Crusader Strike, Avenger's Shield and Blessing of Kings, all of which are talented abilities.