The WotLK profession thread - Page 34

kysta · 09/21/08, 12:12 AM

Originally Posted by Rasputin

I must have missed them, where are there BoP BSing weapons? I've only seen the various BoE weapons.

All I can find are these. Level 78 blue weapons that don't really compare favorably with the BoE crafted weapons that don't require any profession. Are there other BoP crafted weapons that wowhead hasn't picked up yet?

PSGarak · 09/21/08, 12:46 AM

The last word on the sockets is that it wasn't implimented because it wasn't stacking with enchants. The socket thingy was basically "Enchant Weapon - Add a Socket," which showed they could dynamically add a socket to a weapon, but they were still working on a way to do that without taking up the enchant slot. Belts aren't a problem, there's no belt enchants. Supposedly the blacksmithing socket is waiting on new tech so that it doesn't vastly suck, and the eventual plan is stackability. Mind you, they've scrapped more than one talent recently because the tech issues weren't working out...

Bonestorm · 09/21/08, 1:46 AM

A dumb question, but does the Gnomish Army Knife require engineering skill to be used as a mining pick, blacksmithing hammer, etc. or is that just for the use ability?

Steelfleece · 09/21/08, 4:44 AM

Originally Posted by Bonestorm

A dumb question, but does the Gnomish Army Knife require engineering skill to be used as a mining pick, blacksmithing hammer, etc. or is that just for the use ability?

Well, at the moment all I can confirm is that the goblin jumper cables ability is bugged (says "Requires Grand Master Engineer" and won't let me use it despite the fact that I am a 450 Engineer).

Also, the version I have in my bag doesn't seem to actually have an engineering skill requirement on the item itself.

KraxisSingular · 09/21/08, 12:33 PM

Originally Posted by Dryssa

WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Motorcycle Mount is OP

Good to hear that engineers will be getting a cool recipe that everyone can use.

What's so good about that? A a goldmaker? Not likely when every Engineer has the recipie. 5g tip is what Engineers will get, if that much since buddies and guildies will be getting them for free (I really doubt anyone is going to demand gold for a trainer learned recipie from a guildy).

No, there is no good sides to this for Engineers. There are however a lot for non-Engineers.

1) They don't have to level a profession that is heavily tied into Mining (if they are not Miners) to get the coolest landmount. Essentially one of the great perks of Engineering for none of the hassle.
2) It will be readily available from any Engineer who don't reroll because of this. No need to wait days on end for the one guy on the server that has the drop.
3) There is unlikely to be any serious crafting fee. Tied into the previous point.

I made a mistake though. There is one advantage for Engineers. They can now drop Engineering and get a proper raiding profession and not feel they lose the landmount. Yes, the goggles aren't that great (equivalent to T7, most cases worse, some cases slightly better).

So what was it that was so great about this announcement for Engineers, I really can't see it? Unless you meant the rest of the population of course, then the announcement is great. I mean I will certainly get a guildy's alt to craft me one, that's for sure, even if only to fill up a spot in my mount-tab.

Axanor · 09/21/08, 12:48 PM

A transmute-style cooldown for an integral engineering part for BoE engineering gear could help keep the Motorcycle and other items out of 5g tip territory.

Nurru · 09/21/08, 12:58 PM

Compared to the other professions it seems like Engineering still has very little to offer in PvE respects unless they make those enchants not take the item's enchant slot. I'll be optimistic though, since I leveled Engineering on my draenei priest for arena boots, and it might be fun to keep the profession.

KraxisSingular · 09/21/08, 1:37 PM

Originally Posted by Nurru

Compared to the other professions it seems like Engineering still has very little to offer in PvE respects unless they make those enchants not take the item's enchant slot. I'll be optimistic though, since I leveled Engineering on my draenei priest for arena boots, and it might be fun to keep the profession.

Well rerolling before the expansion would not be bright. Blizzard can still easily make the mounts BoP or just require Engineering to use (though I doubt they will change the requirement once it goes live, imagine people who had already gotten it). And then it would feel somewhat bad to have dropped something you generally do like because of one build.

However, Engineering doesn't look all too appealing in any case. At least not for certain classes that can't benefit much from either of the new trinkets, nor much from the Haste proc on gloves. I'm not going to be optimistic, but I won't call Engineering dead either, not until the final day. I just won't sit with hopes high.

Evalara · 09/21/08, 2:24 PM

Originally Posted by Axanor

A transmute-style cooldown for an integral engineering part for BoE engineering gear could help keep the Motorcycle and other items out of 5g tip territory.

This would only inflate the materials cost. As long as crafting the item itself involves no cooldown, and the recipe is not scarce (i.e. trainer), the market crafting fee will approach zero.

Edit:
In other news, the Inscription-crafted off-hands are up on MMO-C:
Faces of Doom
binds when equipped
requires level 77
requires Inscription (425)
+32 int
+32 spi
+39 spellpower
+32 crit rating

Iron-bound Tome
binds when equipped
requires level 77
requires Inscription (425)
+200 armor
+45 stamina
+62 spellpower
+16 crit rating

They seem awful to me. Are they getting a penalty for being BoE?

PSGarak · 09/21/08, 3:18 PM

They're getting a penalty for being level 77 instead of 80. Iron-Bound Tome has armor on an offhand, which is pretty unique. I full expect every PvP-metamorphosis warlock to pick it up for 1200 AC while in demon form, and I wouldn't be surprised if there's nontrivial demand from panzerkin. It's utility to feral druids is limited by the availability of feral one-handers.

songster · 09/21/08, 3:40 PM

<e> disregard, hit the wrong button instead of reporting

Octaviann · 09/21/08, 3:53 PM

Originally Posted by songster

Idiot - quoted the sentence about having a cooldown requirement and then says "doesn't work unless you have a cooldown requirement".

He was responding to your saying that a cooldown on a part would make the cost to craft it go up by saying that it wouldn't unless crafting the actual mount itself has a cooldown. He's not an idiot--either he misinterpreted what was said, or you're misinterpreting what he's saying, or both.

songster · 09/21/08, 4:44 PM

Originally Posted by Octaviann

He was responding to your saying that a cooldown on a part would make the cost to craft it go up by saying that it wouldn't unless crafting the actual mount itself has a cooldown. He's not an idiot--either he misinterpreted what was said, or you're misinterpreting what he's saying, or both.

If there's a cooldown in the system, then there is a limit on production, and so there will be a money source for the person that does the transmute. So if engineers have a cooldown on making [Magic widget] that is a reagent for the bike, that's functionally equivalent to having a cooldown on the bike.

Lord Loom · 09/21/08, 6:08 PM

No, because if only [Magic Widget] is on a CD nothing stops the customer from getting it - for the mentioned inflated materials price - off the AH and we're back at the "free bike for mats + 5g" scenario because the engineer making the chopper isn't necessarily the guy who sold the "crafting item on transmute CD". Undoubtedly someone would be able to make money off the widget but the "market crafting fee" will still be some sort of (possibly low) tip - however, so far the recipe seems to be a pattern at exalted rep so at least not EVERYONE will be able to make it.

PSGarak · 09/21/08, 6:15 PM

The number of people who make widgets is the same as the number of people who make bikes. Buying it off the AH does not make it any more available if there's still an engineer in the background waiting on a four-day cooldown. Either the widget gets churned out every four days and put in the AH, or the bike does. The difference is who gets the 5g crafting tip, but the entire point of the widget is that's not the limiting cost in the market. It doesn't matter if the guy making the bike is not the guy making the CD-limited reagent, because the guy making the reagent is still the one getting the monies for the reagent. The bike is simply a means to generate a market for the reagent, giving it demand.

In practice I think market inefficiencies are more likely to be prominent for a bike than a widget. Engineers would be more likely to stock up and sell widgets on the AH and make bikes only when they find a customer, even though they're functionally identical, because of the psychological difference between a finished product and a crafting reagent.

Hildegard · 09/21/08, 7:17 PM

Engineering definitely needs some upgrades. I love the profession and it is so closely tied to my character that I don't want to give it up. I still hope that they add some more enchants. For example the boot enchant could grant permanent increased run speed or have other addiontional stuff. Perhabs the Hyperspeed Accelerators should give percentage based haste to have it scaling with gear.

The glove rocket launcher is decent for any burst reliant class like Mutilate/Preparation rogues in the arena. As I interpret the text the flat damage boni that Assasination offers also apply to the fire damage. But 1125 average damage isn't really that much, perhabs this could scale with AP and Spellpower.

KraxisSingular · 09/22/08, 1:41 AM

Originally Posted by Hildegard

Engineering definitely needs some upgrades. I love the profession and it is so closely tied to my character that I don't want to give it up. I still hope that they add some more enchants. For example the boot enchant could grant permanent increased run speed or have other addiontional stuff. Perhabs the Hyperspeed Accelerators should give percentage based haste to have it scaling with gear.

The glove rocket launcher is decent for any burst reliant class like Mutilate/Preparation rogues in the arena. As I interpret the text the flat damage boni that Assasination offers also apply to the fire damage. But 1125 average damage isn't really that much, perhabs this could scale with AP and Spellpower.

Personally I'm most unhappy that the AP trinket doesn't really work off ranged attacks, and that the Haste on gloves proc is not even close to being as good as a regular stats enhant. As a Hunter it is disturbing.

The goggles being slightly worse than T7 (which is already bad for Hunters) makes Engineering look downright unfavourable compared to most proffs.

Hildegard · 09/22/08, 3:06 AM

Originally Posted by KraxisSingular

Personally I'm most unhappy that the AP trinket doesn't really work off ranged attacks, and that the Haste on gloves proc is not even close to being as good as a regular stats enhant. As a Hunter it is disturbing.

The goggles being slightly worse than T7 (which is already bad for Hunters) makes Engineering look downright unfavourable compared to most proffs.

At least for rogues the haste effect on gloves should come out a small bit before the normal enchants. The point is that it can be used with other cooldowns and by so increase the effect. The goggles can be used from level 72 on if wowhead is right. Altough the recipe needs one Frozen Orb and eight Titanium bars you could possibly use them much earlier on than T7.

So I hope that they keep the promise with the best in slot item and have the first upgrade for the goggles in Naxxramas or shortly after.

KraxisSingular · 09/22/08, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Hildegard

At least for rogues the haste effect on gloves should come out a small bit before the normal enchants. The point is that it can be used with other cooldowns and by so increase the effect. The goggles can be used from level 72 on if wowhead is right. Altough the recipe needs one Frozen Orb and eight Titanium bars you could possibly use them much earlier on than T7.

So I hope that they keep the promise with the best in slot item and have the first upgrade for the goggles in Naxxramas or shortly after.

If they upgrade the goggles or make them tiered, and make it possible to get those goggles without actually having to raid the places where the equal stuff drops, then Engineering might hold a limited interest for Hunters. As it is I'm going to relegate it to my Shaman alt, drop it myself and pick up Skinning again.

The perks of the profession are not worth it for me at all. And since Engineering isn't tied to any specific portion of gear or class I think it should have mostly equal benefits for all classes. "So the current glove enchant doesn't work for class X, we better make another one for them." etc etc. After all it is a massively BoP profession, so not getting the benefits of those BoP things is quite bad. I hope they have noticed this issue, and I don't mean Hunters alone. It should be worth it to be an Engineer as any class.

Sydane · 09/22/08, 11:24 AM

Engineering suffers hard from the "novelty effect" where it lets you make tons of stuff that is primarily for fun, that either ends up being overpowered or useless, and the overpowered stuff usually ends up getting nerfed. In an odd sort of way in BC it ended up being a gathering profession that also gave you a nice helm, so if it ends up at that point for LK it won't be a terrible thing to keep (especially since some of the new gadgets are somewhat more useful), but probably won't be optimal by any means. Would be nice to see some things like the rez made more reliable, if it was 100% rez with a 20 minute cooldown it could actually be relied on without being overpowered.

If making the motorcycle requires a Frozen Orb, there will be profit in those orbs, just as there was with Primal Nethers for a long time. But as we all know, just general crafting is rarely profitable, for any profession, which is why the perks are the most important part. On a related note, the current testing implementation points strongly towards mounted combat some time in the future. I expect when it hits live it will be a normal mount, but somewhere down the line (maybe a content patch, more likely the next expansion) we may finally be able to fight on our mounts, with them treated as personal combat vehicles.

Hildegard · 09/22/08, 11:53 AM

They have three posibilities to make Engineering viable:

1. Make it have unique arena advantages, nothing completly overpowered but something that makes it the best profession for utility. Goggles with better stealth detections, trinkets with on use effects, beams, utitlity enchantments.

2. Make it a fun and gathering profession. Basically like in BC Engineering should very good gathering skills that could be enhanced (mining/herbalisam/collecting gas clouds while using the flying machine) and give it some fun stuff like the steam tonks (they could really make them somewhat better designed), fireworks, mechanical pets, specials mounts and by that an money-making profession (rare vanity pets go for insane prices).

3. Make it like enchanting or Jewelcrafting to have one best-in-slot item/enchant that is on par with what other professions offer.

Overpowered · 09/22/08, 12:58 PM

Why not give engineers like a "tool belt" enchant? I.E; "Tool Belt of the Arcanist" attach to players belt to gain +40 Spell Damage (obv. not what I would make the real enchant, but an idea). This would give engineers an armor kit like skill in a slot currently devoid of any secondary upgrades.

Copernicus · 09/22/08, 1:21 PM

So I was going to update my post on perks with raw numbers (quick summary - Fur Linings are just better than anything else right now, Tailoring and Engineering have weird enchants that need spreadsheets to figure out) but I need some numbers on Mixology to actually finish it.

Anyone got the actual bonuses from various elixirs and flasks. Some odd edge cases would be Elixir of Demonslaying, the flasks for Gruul's Lair, and flasks from Marks of Illidari.

And as a side note - Endless Rejuvenation Potion

Elendril · 09/22/08, 2:29 PM

Wait what? "Sanctioned for Arenas"?

That had better be a joke.

Tinwhisker · 09/22/08, 2:35 PM

Originally Posted by Elendril

Wait what? "Sanctioned for Arenas"?

That had better be a joke.

No, that's real. Alchemists basically get a weak version of a health/mana potion that you can use in arenas (on a 3 min cooldown instead of a normal 2 min).

I assume (but don't know for sure) that the potions are affected by the alchemist talent Mixology which is what Copernicus is asking about.