Hi there,

I haven't found notice on the following leatherworking patterns here at EJs yet, so I thought I'll let you know:
Braeg Stoutbeard <Fur & Leather Trainer> in Dalaran (Magus Commerce Exchange) has LOTS of new Leatherworking Patterns for sale, including four 2-pieces epic sets. You can buy the patterns for leather and other leatherworking materials.


Blue BoE Patterns cost: 3 "Heavy Borean Leather" each.

Blue PvP Melee Leather
Pattern: Eviscerator's Bindings
Pattern: Eviscerator's Chestguard (BoP)
Pattern: Eviscerator's Facemask
Pattern: Eviscerator's Gauntlets
Pattern: Eviscerator's Legguards
Pattern: Eviscerator's Shoulderpads
Pattern: Eviscerator's Treads
Pattern: Eviscerator's Waistguard

Blue PvP Caster Leather
Pattern: Overcast Belt
Pattern: Overcast Boots
Pattern: Overcast Bracers
Pattern: Overcast Chestguard (BoP)
Pattern: Overcast Handwraps
Pattern: Overcast Headguard
Pattern: Overcast Leggings
Pattern: Overcast Spaulders

Blue PvP Caster Mail
Pattern: Stormhide Belt
Pattern: Stormhide Crown
Pattern: Stormhide Grips
Pattern: Stormhide Hauberk (BoP)
Pattern: Stormhide Legguards
Pattern: Stormhide Shoulders
Pattern: Stormhide Stompers
Pattern: Stormhide Wristguards

Blue PvP Melee Mail
Pattern: Swiftarrow Belt
Pattern: Swiftarrow Boots
Pattern: Swiftarrow Bracers
Pattern: Swiftarrow Gauntlets
Pattern: Swiftarrow Hauberk (BoP)
Pattern: Swiftarrow Helm
Pattern: Swiftarrow Leggings
Pattern: Swiftarrow Shoulderguards


Epic BoE Frost resist Patterns cost: 3 "Heavy Borean Leather" each.


Epic Frost Resist Mail
Pattern: Icy Scale Belt
Pattern: Icy Scale Boots
Pattern: Icy Scale Chestguard

Epic Frost Resist Leather
Pattern: Polar Boots
Pattern: Polar Cord
Pattern: Polar Vest


Epic BoE Patterns cost: 2 "Arctic Fur" each.


Epic BoE Melee Mail
Pattern: Giantmaim Bracers
Pattern: Giantmaim Legguards

Epic BoE Caster Mail
Pattern: Revenant's Breastplate
Pattern: Revenant's Treads

Epic BoE Melee Leather
Pattern: Trollwoven Girdle
Pattern: Trollwoven Spaulders

Epic BoE Caster Leather
Pattern: Earthgiving Boots
Pattern: Earthgiving Legguards

Note that the chest pieces of those blue PvP "sets" are BoP.

No more drums.

I'm not 100% sure, but to me it seems like Blizz has decided to nix drums this xpack.

A recent change made all TBC drums not effect targets of level 80 or higher (so you can't use them in WotLK raids) and there are no new drum recipes in beta. There were a while back, but they are gone.

Or am I missing something? I would think there would be QQ posts (on Blizz forums) about it, but I haven't seen any.

Probably a bug, just report it.

I was looking at the direct profession benefits again when the exact benefit was not obvious:

Enchanting: +64 AP, +38 spell power, +48 stamina

Blacksmithing: 2 sockets, so +32 stats/rating or +38 SP / +48 sta / +64 AP with non-epic gems.
Wowhead reports that they stack with enchants in that slot.
This gets better with epic gems.

Jewelcrafting: 3 prismatic gems with better stats, so +33 stats / +39 SP / +51 sta / +66 AP, and 3 undesirable colours.
Prismatic gems have 27 stats / 32 spell power / 41 stamina. This gets worse with epic gems.

Inscription: Better Inscriptions for +32 dodge / +37 spell power / +64 AP.

Leatherworking: (+37 spell power / +74 sta / +76 AP)
Lining is +67 spell power / +90 sta / +114 AP / +60 any resist, regular enchants are +6 to all stats / + 15 expertise / +16 sta / +30 spell power / +38 AP
Some enchants aren't out yet or wrongly designed, so take these as estimates.
Also, current drums are capped at level 79 and there are none for level 80.

You beat me to it. Whine Trains are slower with PTR changes. Even the Tailoring Nerf Outcry (Spellfire/Shadoweave Set normalised to non-school specific spell power) has yet to happen.

Drums were too powerful a buff because they were a bonus that got better the more people had them. With adding the fur lining perks there's no need for MORE things in LW. 80 haste rating from drums (when you had 4 drummers) was a bigger benefit, stat value wise, than any of the current level 80 perks. I'd expect some QQ from the people that leveled LW just for drums, but really it was something that needed to be stopped now.

You may as well just list the epic BoP patterns for all professions then. The point is that these items will get replaced - whether it is soon like the BlackSmithing items in TBC, or later like the tailoring outfits. The trinkets are still a static, intermediate step that eventually becomes obsolete, not an ongoing perk that you can reapply even when you move to the next tier of items.

They also removed Tinnitus, the debuff that prevented drums rotations.

Either drums are gone from the level 80 game, or they'll be coming back in with a patch with tinnitus. If they do come back, it's because they didn't want to mess up with level 70 raiding and drum rotations.

It might be the idea, but there's no epic BoP profession gear in the game at the moment. Except for Engineering goggles and Inscription off-hands, which are technically BoE but requires skill to use.

Thank you for this thread it has been quite informative.

What i am really concerned about is Engineering. It really seems like it has no lasting bonuses. I would not typically count BOP crafted equipment as a specific bonus because if things are anything like BC a lot of those pieces became outdated by honor and arena gear.

Another problem i see with a lot of the BOP crafted equipment is that the best recipes are often in raid dungeons that are at the cutting edge.

As for unique bonuses it would seem that many of them either replace enchants or in the case of the few belt enchants are no more than flavor.

Has anyone done any calculations that might justify the engineering augmentations?

I'd be really surprised if drums come back for 80. One of the major reasons the Devs have stated for the buff consolidation is to eliminate "We need X buff, so that last raid spot has to go to Y."

If you look at all the professions, LW drums are the ONLY items that provide a group / raid buff (well I suppose there are also the JC necks that provide small group stat buffs, but I don't think anyone actually uses those). Anyway, if drums remain in, even with Tinnitus, having a LW is a concern when planning out who you are going to invite.

We can take Rogue A or we can take Rogue B, well A has better gear and is a better player, but we should really take B because he's a LW and we don't have one.

They wanted to get away from raid selection thoughts like that, they want us to bring "friends" or "geared players" over HAVING to take a specific class / spec / profession? over another just because they provide something vital that can't be gotten from somewhere else.

I really feel that drums should have had the leatherworking requirement for usage taken off. That'd have fixed Sunwell LW stacking, and drums are cheap enough that it's not as if Leatherworkers would become the new fantasy tycoons.

Having drums available everyone is basically the same situation as chain-chugging potions, aside from three seconds in party chat to set up an order. Everyone has to spam them all the time, and there's no tactical considerations about when or whether to use them. It's fair, and it's probably cheaper than potions (maybe--the change would increase demand), but it's still boring and adds nothing to the game.

I wouldn't phrase it that way. The BC Engineering goggles (schematics easily buyable from vendors) were good until Archimonde. They were more than good enough for any heroic/kara runs that any casual would want to do. If you're talking about PvP, well, you could always socket them with resilience, or get resilience in another armor slot. Any "lost" resilience is easily made up for by the fact that they're inordinately powerful.

As for the WotLK engineering goggles, I'm not on beta, but everything I've read indicates that they're roughly on par with T7 helms (~superior to Naxx10, ~equivalent to Naxx25 and Ulduar10 gear).

Besides, other crafting professions have their expensive patterns drop in raiding instances too, so this isn't exactly an Engineering-only problem. Enchanters have more of an issue with this, as Mongoose, Soulfrost, and Sunfire enchants all drop in raid instances (much to my warrior's dismay).

I think Blizzard recognizes the basic flaws of Engineering (i.e. can't make the bombs/whatever viable in Arena, otherwise everybody would be an engineer), so they're pushing it into more of a gathering profession with the mote extractor devices.

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A question just popped up while I was writing this: Do the BC engineering goggles "see" the WotLK land mote clouds? Or do we need WotLK engineering goggles to see the mote clouds in WotLK lands? Also, does the mote extractor we have currently extract motes from WotLK mote clouds?

I was able to see the nodes in the northern part of Howling Fjord with my [Tankatronic Goggles] and extract them with the [Zapthrottle Mote Extractor] this weekend. 2 weeks ago they were dispensing an infinite amount of motes of shadow, but this week, they were dispensing the correct items (crystallized water/air).

And "scavenging" mechanical corpses, by the way. This is an additional gathering ability that engineers get. And in Borean Tundra there's an area that's positively overrun with hostile mechanicals. An engineer wandering around that area can have the same sort of field day an herbalist does in bog lord areas.

When you figure out which alts are going to which starting zones, you should take this sort of thing into account. My engineer is going to Borean Tundra, since there are so many mechanicals to scavange. My tailor is going to Howling Fjord, since such a high proportion of the quests deal with humanoids (my experience so far is that BT has a larger proportion of quests involving wildlife and dragonkin and such).

I was looking at at the different professions trying to figure out which professions would best benefit my alt in WotLK. I was mostly interested in helping my main (Mage) to gear up so was trying to identify stuff with cooldowns and such that would make things particularly expensive.

It looks like jewelcrafting so you can run the JC daily and get Dalaran Jewelcrafter's Token to trade for the Dragon's Eyes that would be handy for the BoE neck and ring. Jewelcrafters need the tokens to get a lot of the designs so these will initially be very hard to come by.

The other profession I thought of is tailoring as I suspect the Spellweave, Ebonweave and Moonshroud will initially be rather dear as well since they each have 4 day cool downs.

Has anyone else done any thinking along these lines?

People willing to sell their early tailoring cooldowns will stand to make a substantial profit because demand is going to far outstrip supply. Just looking at the few items that are in game now points to a minimum of 4 to 6 of the needed cloth for each individual item. People wanting to gear up quickly, sitting on a large stockpile of gold, stuck with a 4 day cooldown, will be paying quite a premium for others willing to wait, or not making them. In fact if at all possible I would encourage people to level their tailoring alts just high enough to be able to do it. After the first month or two it should balance out, but early on expect quite a premium.

That goes along with any of the other professions as well. Many of them have mechanics like Dragon's Eyes which will have limited supply, and be limited by people getting recipes instead of the reagent. Northern Spices from the cooking quests is another good one, though of course cooking is far more common. As those items are unbound, anyone willing to sacrifice their personal character development stands to be in a good position to make a lot of gold from the people who want to be able to use the items but would prefer to spend their dailies on recipes. Within 2-3 months however I would expect most people to have the recipes they really want and be spending at least a portion on the materials. Of course, by the end of the expansion cycle, those items will be common and essentially completely worthless.

Sorry if this has been covered, I'm not really good with the in-site search engine.

Has anyone seen/heard any information regarding blacksmithing of mail items in WotLK? There seem to be no patterns on any of the usual sites. All of the stuff that's currently known, is plate.

From this search, it looks like all of the currently discovered craftable Mail items will be coming from Leatherworking, covering both AP Mail for Hunters and Enhancement Shaman, as well as spell power Mail for Elemental and Resto Shaman.

More than 10 Northern Spices a day, actually. In addition to the cooking award which can be exchanged for 10 spices, you also get a spice bag which seems to contain 2-4 Northern Spices; among other things, such as gimmick spices, and very rare drops--so far, I have received 1 additional Cooking Reward in the spice bag once, and I have also received a recipe for Delicious Chocolate Cake in the bag (though no other recipes).

Also, for whatever reason the mustard dog quest still gives 2 cooking awards in addition to the spice bag.

The one thing I was hoping they would correct would be to make sets cover less of a level range so as not to out grow pieces before completing it. It was far too easy in TBC to buy off the AH regular drops at your current level which displaced crafted gear before doing the set.

The level 78 PvP starter sets do accomplish this but the earlier green quality frost scale set appears to spread across four levels for the pieces known. Maintaining the set bonus for +15 hit will not be hard as it only requires two pieces, however to achieve +25 stamina doesn't appear all that likely though this may be mitigated by having eight available pieces.

Now cloth users have two sets available that are very tight in level ranges. Their progression works much nicer than mail pieces. The low set is frost woven which ranges from 70 to 72, middle is dusk weave which covers 75 to 77, and finally the 80 pvp centric set (or blue set). The interesting issue is that both sets grant identical bonuses, +18 spell power for two pieces and +25 stamina for four. I would have expected a slight bump for the middle set. Also, note that level 80 requirement for their "pvp" set compared to mail at 78, I hope this gets corrected.

Leather seems to be missing something, they have two sets that overlap levels of 70 to 74 which covers dps/tanking but that is a five level spread and the one set, iceborne has no set bonuses which could be an oversight. Their "pvp" set is also level 78 as was mail armor.

Plate, none of the "sets" is truly a set, there are no bonuses currently listed. I will have to check beta to see if this is corrected or purposeful. Their "pvp" set is also level 78.

It would appear that blacksmithing has been pushed to specifically plate classes only, other than weapons which can cross boundaries their armor is strictly plate. This is the only real change I see between TBC and WoTLK in that this profession is much more focused.

My assumption is that that cloth's pvp set is listed at the wrong level on wowhead, in game, or both. I didn't check in game to confirm wowhead data on level requirement. I would assume from the disparity between these crafted items that Blizzard still has a way to go.

What you should also note about the sets is that 2 blue pieces are available at higher levels, so you can upgrade you gear and keep the bonuses.

For example the set Borean Embrace, is made up of 8 green items with equip levels ranging from 70 to 74, and then 2 blues of equip level 76 and 77. These are the "Arctic" and "Dark Arctic" pieces you can search for if you are interested.

Does anyone know if there has been a minimum level established to train Grand Master tradeskills? I have searched several sites and this thread to no avail.