• Chicken

I believe the actual mechanic is that "Enchants that go on armor" counts for any piece of gear which isn't a weapon which can be enchanted. So that includes bracers, cloaks, gloves, chest, boots and shields.

It is nevertheless the case that the scrolls probably won't support ring enchants though.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Vodrin

You just enchant onto the scroll like it was an item, consuming the mats. Then that turns it into the appropiate scroll to be used by anyone onto their item of choice.

edit: ok that was a bit late.

Anything been mentioned anywhere for tailoring bonus? Maybe a BoP leg enchant similar to leatherworking.

 

◊ songster

In my experience, jewelcrafting makes comparatively little money. In the early days of the server, when recipes are rare, of course it does - as do most professions. However, once the recipe set has become commonplace, the crafting itself makes very little money except 2-5g tips from people that are too impatient to wait till their guild crafter is online. What does make quite a bit of money is Prospecting - because it's a gathering skill.

The same is true of enchanting - the actual service profession makes comparatively little money, and the wealth is actually created at the disenchanting step. This is because Disenchanting is also a gathering profession.

It's a very simple equation - by and large all gathering professions make money, while all crafting or service professions lose money. Jewelcrafting and Enchanting are only odd ones out because they include their own gathering profession. Conversely, Tailoring is also an odd one out, because there is no associated gathering profession.

 

Shuror

Well, because the Glyphs we've seen so far scale with level (unlike static gem bonuses). The Glyph interface is, as far as I know, available from level 1, in contrary to gem slots which only were available at level 60 and higher.

It wouldn't make sense if a Glyph-crafting profession was available from level 1, coupled with the Glyph interface, but there wouldn't be any available Glyphs until 70+.

I'm not saying that the Glyphs will be overpowered, but that there is a chance/risk that some of them will be in at least some demand by high level players. Of course, this is not much of a difference compared to Quickness Potion/Deviate Delight demand, but if there are too many Glyphs of that sort, it might pose a problem.

I find it quite unfair that caster Leatherworkers don't get an equivalent leg armor. Yes, I know, it is Tailoring which is the caster leg enchant crafting profession, but only physical DPS classes benefitting from the profession is wrong in my eyes.

They even stole the prefix of caster leather gear, "Wyrm", and put it on the melee DPS enchant.

 

ZeroWashu

Engineering essentially has its gathering profession as well, I made the bulk of my money simply from gas cloud harvesting. I would go as far to say that for the most part it out gains my enchanting and any of my other gathering professions. Without it I would not see the value of having more than one engineer character per account. Combine with the ammo that can be created and used by level 62 at that and it really did pay well. The DPS (43) exceeded all rep gained ammo until timeless arrows. I still make a small fortune on these by keeping them down below 1.8g a stack.

One area I think needs desperate expanding is availability of recipes that produce items which sell. Crafting wise my alchemist, engineer, and tailors, never had any problem selling through AH. There always seemed to be a bigger need for my tailoring items even when they were expensive compared to my blacksmith. My alchemist and engineer kept my auctioneer loaded with items that I never worried about moving. I could list a sword two or three times before it sold yet turn over ten times that through the other two. Hopefully temporary inscriptions and glyphs will move the same.

Which brings me back to, while tailoring was too powerful for self crafted items I would prefer to see other trade skills brought up to par. I would prefer each trade skill to be able generate end game pieces. It should be a viable route just as raiding for item drops or running BGs/Arenas are.

 

Douglas

Hm... I was sure I saw one specifically for cloaks before, but I'm having trouble digging out the reference. Can someone in beta run some experiments?

 

Zurgat

Could you check whether healing potions award you more health as well?
And, if possible (though unlikely) whether the effect stacks with the alchemy trinket.


It also seems the added value isn't a fixed percentage, looks strange.
[Elixir of Major Agility] (+5 Agi / +5 Crit Rating) :
I'll ignore the crit rating for now due to the fact that agility will increase crit as well.
5/35 : 14%

[Elixir of Mastery] (gain +4 all Stats)
4/15 : 26%

Elixir of Major Fortitude +300 health (instead of 250 health) : +50 health
50/250 : 25%

Would have to see more potions to get a better idea of how it works, but your result is rather odd so far.


It's likely tailoring will receive an equivalent leg enchant much like leatherworking has.
It does seem blizzard prefers leatherworking to be actually used by leather or mail users though. And tailoring by cloth users.

-= Random Ravings - RSS Feed =- Rogue and Hunter stuff here. As well as guides to get you trough your spare time.

 

• Chicken

The closest I can give you to a source:



Not my picture, it's from Schwick, one of the European MVP posters on the blizz forums. That's an armor scroll getting enchanted with a bracer enchant. Not perfect I guess since you could define a cloak as clothing instead.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Smurrf

Something's been nagging at me the whole time since I've heard of the potion change today, and I finally nailed down what it was.

People are equating the change in flasks/elixirs (for simplification sake, I'm referencing elixirs as well when discussing flasks for the rest of the post) to the new change in potion usage. However, they're not the same. The benefit of the use of flasks doesn't change, no matter how long a single fight goes. Blizz took out the ability to use multiple long-term consumables, and then adjusted content around the new level of usage. But the benefit of using over time did not change. It's static. You're getting 500 HP & 10 def no matter if the fight is 30 secs or 12 mins from Flask of Fortification.

With potions, that's always been a little different. The benefit actually changes over time, and spikes every time a new cooldown point is reached and you can pop another one. You can actually calculate how much a potion gives in mp/5 (or dps), but that fluctuates. If you were to actually plot effectiveness of a potion against the length a fight took, you'd see roughly a sawshape form (with spikes every time you're able to pop another pot, then steadily decreasing until another CD hits.) Overall though, the effectiveness of potions remains fairly steady, due to the relatively short duration of the CD.

That is not the case with the new change. If you plot effectiveness of a potion over time of fight for a single potion, all you're going to see is a single spike when you use it, but steadily decreasing, with a trend towards zero the longer a fight goes. What does this mean? Potion usage will still be useful in fights that hover around 3-5 minutes, but will steadily decrease in value for longer fights. All of the reactive potions (Mana, Health, Stoneshield, and whatever gives back rage/energy) will still retain some usefulness as 'oh sh**' buttons, but more DPS oriented potions appear to have lost just about any form of usefulness in longer fights.

What's worse? The usefulness of potions will become even less than what one could calculate out for DPS or MPS, because instead of using it with the knowledge that in two minutes you'll be able to use any potion at all again, now you're faced with a choice the whole fight through. 'Do I waste the pot now, or do I save it for later?' will be a constant thought in the back of the mind, and it's really that whole 'point of no return' situation that has me concerned. How many times will we see a tank drop because the healer used his pot three minutes in, then is tapped out by minute 9? Conversely, how many times will we actually see tanks die at 3, just because their healer wanted to push back use of a pot, and go OO5SR in an attempt to restore a small amount of mana instead?

Of course, people will adjust, but I just don't like potion usage benefits becoming wildly variable, based solely on length of the fight.

 

Illy

This disparity really needs to be addressed. Along with tailoring, enchanting has no gathering component that takes up a separate profession slot, leaving folks with those trades the opportunity to get another crafting profession. While it's nice that they're giving herbalists, miners, and skinners a minor buff for having said profession they're still just that: minor buffs. Min/maxers will still skip them for other producing professions.

Blizz should just take this opportunity to finally roll the gathering professions into their respective production ones and simplify things a bit. This could also help smooth out the leveling process for professions. Let's be honest, professions are almost all about the top level of their skill, there's little to no market for low level crafted items. Let a skinner/LW level up by doing both till a point (say, when the expansion hits up through 350ish), and then let the current system of only going up by crafting items be for current content. It always was a bit silly that to level a profession like LWing, I had to make heaps of worthless items that I usually just vendored/DEed.

 

Copernicus

One of the main points of the change is to make potion usage something that requires thought, instead of mindlessly smashing the key every 2 minutes. So yes, a character will have to make a decision on when to use their potion for the fight - based entirely on the dynamics of the fight and when it's the best time to use it.

Hopefully, it will also allow for more powerful potions that would be too good if used every 2 minutes, but are perfectly fine on a once/fight level.




Scroll of Enchant Cloak - Major Resistance

Can't confirm if they come from Bleached Parchments, but I think they do.

 

• frmorrison

Most likely a Major glyph, to reward people that pick that profession.

There was a skinning bleed and mining ranged attack, but they were removed from the spell list a few builds ago.

I doubt you will be able to "store" ring enchants for use when you drop enchanting, but I could be surprised.

 

Jubling

I've only seen "armor" and "weapon" enchant scroll recipes on the Inscription trainer. So unless they're part of the higher skill recipes that aren't on the trainer yet I think cloaks and rings simply use the armor scroll.

 

• Chicken

Rings are actually likely to not be usable with the scrolls, as we were discussing over the last few pages. They're supposed to be a perk for having enchanting on your character and are only supposed to be usable on your own rings, so no need to allow the creation of consumable items that cast the ring enchants.

buff /bʌf/ Pronunciation[buhf]
–verb (used with object)
- to reduce or deaden the force of

 

Jubling

Or maybe the scrolls become BoP, like a BoE ring binds if you enchant it? But yeah, it's probably more likely that ring enchants don't work with the scroll system so you can't store them up and switch to a different profession. Certainly something to test once the high-level scrolls are put in.

 

Nezralix

They *should* be "oh shit" buttons. That's what this change is intended to resolve, the fact that they're currently "just another consumable cost", and not at all oriented towards intelligent timing or usage patterns.

You're *supposed* to have to think about it. The fact that you're mindlessly chugging potions every two minutes is a bad thing.

I don't know what point you're trying to make here regarding healers using potions. With a *very* small exception for skills like Innervate, there's basically no difference between using a mana potion at minute 9 vs. minute 3, because you almost never find yourself at full mana after the encounter starts. If you're referring to other types of potions that might interest healers, well then, I doubt they're powerful enough to be a make-or-break difference, and it's wholly reasonable for Blizzard to expect players to put some thought into when to use their potion.

Once again, this is rooted in the idea that Blizzard doesn't want potions to be "just another consumable". They don't want rogues popping a haste potion every two minutes; they want them picking the moment where its benefit is maximized: when the boss is vulnerable, when Bloodlust is up, when the enrage timer is looming large on the horizon, etc. If this creates a situation where players often don't use a potion for the average encounter because they couldn't find a "clutch moment" to use it, then that's great, and it's probably what Blizzard intends. They've already put the money down for their flask, food, etc.

If it offers some slightly disproportionate benefit to very short fights (i.e. 1-2 minutes), then who cares? I doubt there are going to be that many cases where those present a massive challenge. And if people do feel compelled to use a potion on short fights, then it's still better than the situation we have now where people are chain-chugging them on *all* fights.

 

Arindelest

The basic underlying idea of the change and the end-goal are the same as that of the flask/elixir change: reduce consumable requirements and allow Blizzard to balance around the idea that you CAN'T pop (mana -- or whatever) potions every cooldown. This makes balance a lot easier -- as fights get longer, the value of your single potion goes down, until Devs don't even have to account for it anymore.

It also reinforces some key "skillful play" concepts that Blizzard is promoting in WotLK: intelligent decision making in when to use your potion, and intelligent decision making in WHAT potion to use, which is pretty much lacking atm -- since you just mindlessly use whatever is the best pot every 2 minutes. You have to consider all the possible scenarios -- i.e., do I eat an Ironshield Pot on Brutallus' next stomp to help healers heal me, or the next stomp after that, or the next one... or do I save my healing potion for an "oh shit" moment? -- as it were.

 

Smurrf

Believe me, I understand the problem...I'm just not sure what a solution is.

I had initially come up with the same solution you have here, making potables more potent. The problem there is tuning. Either potions still are only useful in lower-length fights, or useful in longer fights but insanely powerful in shorter.

The absolute only other option I can see at the moment other than leaving potion usage unchanged is making another variety of potions that have a reduced effect, but lasting 2mins or until fight's end, whichever is longer. Something like a single 500 mana point tick every 30 secs, 1.5 k additional armor, 5 rage every 25 secs, or something equivalent to 0.5% haste rating over the course of a fight. On one hand, you can hold a pot for a good gulp of 'x' resource, on the other, you get more sustained resource, but it only helps over the course of a long fight. Finding a proper balance for every potion would be a right beast though, especially given that you also have to balance for lower ranks of potions as well.

Whatever the answer is, this is something that has a lot of consequences if they don't get it right on the money.


Edit to Nezralix: I'm not going to argue the point of the intent. I completely understand what they're shooting for, and I agree with the logic behind it. I guess what worries me is twofold. Firstly, that, especially in longer fights, the potential for multiple 'oh sh**' moments increases, and once you use that button once, it's over. You can't use it again, regardless of fight length, until the fight is over. That's for reactive survival potions (direct or indirect). For other potions (thinking of haste/destruction and the like here), they lose almost any benefit at all over a longer fight. Even at optimal usage, they don't provide all *that* much extra DPS on single use, and if all of a sudden something happens and the benefit is wasted (see my 'Get out of the Fire' moment from earlier), then they can't even be assuaged by knowing that at least they can use it again in just a few minutes on the same fight, and regain a little of that lost power.

Bottom line, it's not as simple and clear cut as the flask/elixir change was, by any means.

 

Phlis

That is a good point, another thing to consider is how this will affect other professions. I think another major reason for this change is a hidden change to how much money herbalism will be worth. Herbalism is already a major money maker, mostly because of potions, and people buying stacks and stacks of herbs for their raiding week. How many mana pots do healers burn through in a week of raiding? 200ish? 100 Destro/Haste pots a week, 200 Ironshield pots? Limit that number down to 20 a week, more while wiping on a new boss of course, but like 1 pot per boss attempt(if that, and only at low percentages probably, for DPS), and you see a substantial decrease in the number of herbs sold due to alchemy. At the same time Inscription is being put into the game, which will be an automatic increase to the cost of herbs. So This really is balancing out the cost of herbs, then the much much higher cost they would be at if this change didn't go through.

 

Nezralix

Not really; the only way to royally screw it up would be to make them overly powerful while still being terribly uninteresting and inconvenient. Going the other direction just results in people not bothering to use them unless they're solo grinding, and that's not really that terrible of a consequence.

They've taken the wise move of not thinking to themselves "well, how can we shoehorn this into raiding in a way that people still have to blow a ton of money on them?" That seems to be the direction you're approaching the problem from.

 

Isla

Are there any speciality blacksmith trainers implemented yet?
i.e. Swordsmith trainers, Armorsmithing etc.

 

Slyness

I tested out the Alchemical Blood with Adepts/Healing Power elixirs.

Adepts elixir (24 spell power/24 spell crit)

I potted with it 3 times for 30 spell bonus/29 healing bonus, on each attempt. This indicates a ~25% increase for elixirs. I'm a rogue and for some reason I showed no increase in spell crit/ melee crit, whatsoever.

Healing power (24 spell power/24 spirit)

I potted twice gaining 24 spell bonus/30 healing bonus/29 spirit


I can't make Flasks of Relentless Assualts or Haste Pots and as the tool tip indicates, I received no bonus effect from taking them.

 

Smurrf

Now that's not a fair representation of my views at all...I've said nothing about cost. My concern is more of 'how can the benefit from a potion be made equal, no matter the fight length?' If the solution were to have potions be deleted from the game entirely, I'd be all for it, so long as content was balanced around that fact. If potion usage was, at time of release, converted back to current levels, I'd agree with that as well...because once again, benefit would be balanced regardless of fight length. The problem is that unless every fight is the exact same length, the benefit from a one-time-only use varies, and drastically so, solely dependent on fight length. *That* is the direction I'm coming from.

 

Cube

This really depends on how Blizzard designs the encounters, though. Blizzard can design the fights to make sure that they're testing more than whether or not the raid has farmed enough mats for consumables.

Kalecgos is a great example of this: What if the Revitalize restored say, 30% of your total mana over 9 seconds rather than the 450/3 it does currently? While the fight is already a 1-2 potion fight for druids and priests, a slight change like that would lessen the chainpotting requirement for Shaman and Pallies have. It also wouldn't make the encounter that much more difficult.

 

Benita

Can't find if it was mentioned already, the Potion Sickness lasts for 5sec out of combat then disappears. Might be abusable for classes than can drop out of combat mid fight.