The WotLK profession thread - Page 47

Copernicus · 10/20/08, 6:13 PM

Originally Posted by Andread

I'm concerned about the earning potential of inscription once things settle down after the expansion. The problem is replacement; once a max level toon has the glyphs they want for their two specs they'll have no reason to purchase more glyphs. Enchanting (and leatherworking) needs replacement when new gear is obtained, for example. Only respeccing makes a glyph need replacement and the dual spec feature will stop that from happening very often.

Perhaps Blizzard intends for scrolls and vellums to be the major source of income for the profession?

Darkmoon Card of the North - Spell - World of Warcraft

Northrend Inscription Research - Spell - World of Warcraft

Some minor other news, from Darkmoon Card crafting, the Nobles card has been made - WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Darkmoon Deck Discovery

You're able to choose between 4 versions of the trinket that have either 90 str, 90 agi, 90 int, or 90 spr and they all share a proc that increases whichever of those 4 stats that you have most of by an additional 300. So for instance if you were a tank that took the agi one for dodge but have much higher str than agi, your proc would be 300 str. It could potentially cause a lot of headaches for classes that have two stats at similar levels but the higher one changes once raid buffed. The proc rate appears to be 100% with a 45 sec internal gcd giving it a 33% uptime or in other words ~190+ of the stat over time.

Douglas · 10/20/08, 7:00 PM

Originally Posted by Andread

Perhaps Blizzard intends for scrolls and vellums to be the major source of income for the profession?

Those, yeah, plus maybe fun "vanity"-type items.

Scribes can make a scroll that allows hunters to rename pets they've already named. It wouldn't shock me if more items along those lines were to appear over time. Maybe some "stationary" that let you send in-game mail with different borders around your text, for example? Or consumable scrolls to mimic holiday things, like a love poem that made the taming heart animation appear over your head? Many folks would buy 'em.

urotas · 10/20/08, 9:01 PM

Originally Posted by Andread

I'm concerned about the earning potential of inscription once things settle down after the expansion. The problem is replacement; once a max level toon has the glyphs they want for their two specs they'll have no reason to purchase more glyphs. Enchanting (and leatherworking) needs replacement when new gear is obtained, for example. Only respeccing makes a glyph need replacement and the dual spec feature will stop that from happening very often.

Perhaps Blizzard intends for scrolls and vellums to be the major source of income for the profession?

Scrolls of agility and strength no longer stack with strength of earth or horn of winter, so none of the scrolls are useful in a well balanced raid. I could see some people using scrolls in 5-mans or while soloing, but I doubt that makes a very big market.

Addled · 10/20/08, 10:02 PM

Originally Posted by urotas

Scrolls of agility and strength no longer stack with strength of earth or horn of winter, so none of the scrolls are useful in a well balanced raid. I could see some people using scrolls in 5-mans or while soloing, but I doubt that makes a very big market.

I expect that Blizzard is aiming them at 10man raiders. In a 25man, it's easy to squeeze all the important raid buffs in and go from there, but it's difficult (though entirely possible) to squeeze all the important raid buffs in a 10man group. Even more so if the 10man group is not min-maxing and just grabbing their friends for a fun run.

phasedweasel · 10/20/08, 11:58 PM

The only thing that really turns a profit are recipes that are restricted some how (rare random drop, raid drop, % discovery chance, high faction reward, etc) or trade skills with a cooldown. Those become the meat and potatoes of any crafter's income. Over time anything else, no matter how desirable, floats down to about the price of mats, or often even less.

Lanlaorn · 10/21/08, 12:16 AM

I don't see why they don't just make the scrolls stack with buffs but only allow one scroll at a time to be active.

A scroll will always cost less than a potion, since each is only 2 herbs and you're free to choose to mill the cheapest, most common herbs on the market. You only ever need one scroll per attempt and that's assuming you're learning a boss and dying per attempt.

We've already seen Blizzard is fine with Food + 1 Potion per fight, why not Food + 1 Potion + 1 Scroll? It would add some repeat business for Inscription and be a suitably minor buff so as not to cause a hassle. It really would be just like cooking, a small boost that you'd want for that little extra edge, but not crippling when you run out.

PSGarak · 10/21/08, 1:18 AM

The reason not to do that is because they already did it with alchemy, and then you have two tradeskills doing basically the same thing (and with the same materials!). That doesn't add to the game. Granted scrolls' niche isn't really all the great right now, for design reasons you really don't want two supposedly distinct tradeskills to be Alchemy and Also Alchemy.

Yes · 10/21/08, 1:26 AM

Profits come to those that invest wisely first and foremost. Having inscription will save you from grinding rep for shoulder enchants and purchasing materials for said enchants. It's a different take on a profession making profit.

Norfair · 10/21/08, 4:46 AM

Originally Posted by Yes

Profits come to those that invest wisely first and foremost. Having inscription will save you from grinding rep for shoulder enchants and purchasing materials for said enchants. It's a different take on a profession making profit.

That is not a valid argument as every profession has their "stat increase": alchemy saves a flask per raid, LW don't need to enchant their bracers, etcetera. The fact is that now Inscription does not have a "real" market. Every raid, people get new gear that needs gemming or enchanting. Every raid people use potions/flasks. These create huge demands and markets. I don't know much about tailoring/LW/BS yet, so I don't know how profitable these are, but the fact is that when everything has settled down on 80 you won't be using your Inscription profession that often as the demand for glyphs is very low (and they're even cheaper than enchants, too). I guess we'll have to see how vellums and Darkmoon cards will work out in the expansion.

Yes · 10/21/08, 5:06 AM

Three things:

The stat increase for this profession is the additional glyph. [edit there is no additional glyph] It's unique but it is a stat increase. The shoulder enchant is a money maker over the long run because A: you do not need to buy the wotlk-fel armaments to get the enchant, and B: you do not need to grind a specific reputation to exalted, saving time.

Professions aren't here to make money anyway. Take for example Engineering. It has never made money outside of crafting a second rate gun. Professions like Blacksmithing, Tailoring, LW have never really made any money either (If you think making 200g selling an occasional leg enchant is profit...). And 'money making professions' like jewelcrafting and enchanting depended on either having rare gems/enchants plus standing around idling in a city for a long time. Gathering professions don't make real money either because you spend time riding looking for crap. The way the design of inscriptions stands, you won't make any serious money off it.

Real money making comes from things outside of professions, services and using the auction house, things for which there is little competition. I've made a few hundred thousand gold selling arena rating and investing in the auction house. That is smart time management and that is how you make money, by exploiting others. A tv evangelist is making more money then any sort of traditional manufacturer per capita. People that have made a lot of gold from jewelcrafting exploited high demand and lack of competition, or unintelligent raw gem suppliers.

◊ Cadfael · 10/21/08, 5:08 AM

Inscription has Vellums, Scrolls and Darkmoon Cards as consumables. Also we know that more and newer "higher" glyphs are coming later and let's not forget that if you have to respec (not just talent switch) you might also have to get new glyphs.

I think it's way too early to whine about Inscription not being profitable. Of course it is hard to make a profit right now when everyone and their brother waits in the queue to quickly level it up and flood the market. But it's not as if the other professions would make lots of money right now or again until level 80.

Norfair · 10/21/08, 5:22 AM

Originally Posted by Yes

Three things:

The stat increase for this profession is the additional glyph. It's unique but it is a stat increase. The shoulder enchant is a money maker over the long run because A: you do not need to buy the wotlk-fel armaments to get the enchant, and B: you do not need to grind a specific reputation to exalted, saving time.

Professions aren't here to make money anyway. Take for example Engineering. It has never made money outside of crafting a second rate gun. Professions like Blacksmithing, Tailoring, LW have never really made any money either (If you think making 200g selling an occasional leg enchant is profit...). And 'money making professions' like jewelcrafting and enchanting depended on either having rare gems/enchants plus standing around idling in a city for a long time. Gathering professions don't make real money either because you spend time riding looking for crap. The way the design of inscriptions stands, you won't make any serious money off it.

Real money making comes from things outside of professions, services and using the auction house, things for which there is little competition. I've made a few hundred thousand gold selling arena rating and investing in the auction house. That is smart time management and that is how you make money, by exploiting others. A tv evangelist is making more money then any sort of traditional manufacturer per capita. People that have made a lot of gold from jewelcrafting exploited high demand and lack of competition, or unintelligent raw gem suppliers.

First of all: inscription does NOT give you an additional glyph anymore, they changed that several builds back when they gave "us" the shoulder enchant.

I agree with you mostly about professions being money makers: tailoring/LW/BS always seemed useless to me so I never took it (only LW for the drums at M'uru). I always loved alchemy because it is needed all the time. I can help guildies and friends make potions and also it gives me around 20g per day by just hitting a transmute button. However, it has not been a week now and I'm already second-guessing how useful Inscription is. Things might change in WotLK, depending on how wanted vellums and Darkmoon cards will be. My hope is there will be some rare glyph recipes in raid instances.

Prinsesa · 10/21/08, 7:46 AM

Originally Posted by Norfair

My hope is there will be some rare glyph recipes in raid instances.

As someone who has never seen Mongoose drop in over 7 months, I hope not.

Blizzard introduced the profession-specific daily quests specifically to avoid this kind of situation where an extremely useful enchant/gem cut/glyph is at the mercy of the RNG.

By attaching the acquisition of the rare recipe to a resource that you cannot poopsock-farm, they keep the relative intended rarity of the recipe while making sure you can still get it eventually, and without falling prey to the trap that was AQ/MC-only drops.

Ingmar · 10/21/08, 8:16 AM

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

As someone who has never seen Mongoose drop in over 7 months, I hope not.

Blizzard introduced the profession-specific daily quests specifically to avoid this kind of situation where an extremely useful enchant/gem cut/glyph is at the mercy of the RNG.

By attaching the acquisition of the rare recipe to a resource that you cannot poopsock-farm, they keep the relative intended rarity of the recipe while making sure you can still get it eventually, and without falling prey to the trap that was AQ/MC-only drops.

Well basically this will mean that in the end, nothing will be rare, and people will pay a standard (low) fee for cuts/crafts. I'd prefer a kind of system which for example has Malygos 25-men mode dropping a guaranteed Mongoose v2.0 recipe, meaning the crafts are always attainable, yet somewhat rare and mostly limited to mains.

Vaccine · 10/21/08, 8:31 AM

They said this week the future for Inscription was glyphs for abilities with none at the moment, and multiple glyphs for current mainstream abilities. Whether this means slight upgrades to existing ones (which doesn't work in most cases) or completely different ones that add functionality is yet to be seen.

MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Why no Glyph of Incinerate?

• Falk · 10/21/08, 9:33 AM

Originally Posted by Yes

Profits come to those that invest wisely first and foremost. Having inscription will save you from grinding rep for shoulder enchants and purchasing materials for said enchants. It's a different take on a profession making profit.

You get money doing the Sons of Hodir dailies (in addition to rep) and the enchants themselves are a straight out purchase, not requiring mats. Inscription enchants are definitely a little cheaper, but it's kinda like a drop in the bucket in terms of how much gold is being thrown around. :|

Calixtus · 10/21/08, 9:59 AM

Originally Posted by Yes

Professions aren't here to make money anyway. Take for example Engineering. It has never made money outside of crafting a second rate gun. Professions like Blacksmithing, Tailoring, LW have never really made any money either (If you think making 200g selling an occasional leg enchant is profit...). And 'money making professions' like jewelcrafting and enchanting depended on either having rare gems/enchants plus standing around idling in a city for a long time. Gathering professions don't make real money either because you spend time riding looking for crap. The way the design of inscriptions stands, you won't make any serious money off it.

It's an either-or balance, just like with BoP items from a few pages back. If you want BoP items or making money from professions gone, you need to strip both of them from all professions. Arguing that you shouldn't add more money-making abilities - or BoP items - to only some professions is, well, silly.

And I think some of your you-can't-possibly-make-money-of-professions examples are bit... Odd. You seem to be saying that buying and selling takes a neglible time which means the money per hour goes skyhigh where as utilizing a profession takes a non-neglible amount of time and is therefor always worse. Either I'm dying to know your methods, or you've overlooked something.

Anedris · 10/22/08, 10:07 AM

If you want to make money, be a JC/alchemist. There are plenty of professions that have minimal profit opportunities - inscription is hardly unique in this, and neither is it the one most in need of help if the ideal is to have every profession be quasi-equally profitable.

Ambika · 10/22/08, 1:02 PM

Got a question for the blacksmiths:

My death knight is to be my primary blacksmith for all of my crafting needs. I'm currently combing through the laundry list of makeable stuff but don't see anything that would help me through the outlands as far as crafting.

Is there any item in or around level 60 ish that would be craftable or worth getting or should I just slug it out and power level as fast as I can through Outlands till 68 and then head to Northrend.

I've combed WoWhead already and didn't see much.

Stoical · 10/22/08, 1:25 PM

Originally Posted by Ambika

Got a question for the blacksmiths:

My death knight is to be my primary blacksmith for all of my crafting needs. I'm currently combing through the laundry list of makeable stuff but don't see anything that would help me through the outlands as far as crafting.

Is there any item in or around level 60 ish that would be craftable or worth getting or should I just slug it out and power level as fast as I can through Outlands till 68 and then head to Northrend.

I've combed WoWhead already and didn't see much.

Around level 60, no, nothing you can craft is going to be better than the weapon you start with as a DK, Greataxe of the Ebon Blade (or the comparable sword).

At level 65, the blue weaponsmith-only items are good upgrades to that. ([Skyforged Great Axe], for example).

Ambika · 10/22/08, 2:35 PM

Thanks. It is a heckuva debate on which way I want to spec in regards to specialization. I haven't even bothered it on any of my other characters due to the fact I don't know what each profession has in the way of 'good' items for their prefered end tree.

Have we seen any specialized only items for blacksmithing yet? I've dug around a bit haven't seen much in the way of epic quality gear.

RootBreaker · 10/22/08, 2:49 PM

Not much no, the only things I can find are some 78 blues for armorsmiths and weaponsmiths.

makotospeaks · 10/22/08, 4:22 PM

is there any update on whether or not all crafting proffesions will have BoP items of epic quality? i still dont see any for BSing for example, though i do see JC necks and Engi Goggles.

also the Fire leaf and fire seed consumables for herbalists, are their other items like this for any other proffesions, also anyone know by chance if useing a Fire leaf triggers the GCD?

Relk · 10/22/08, 4:23 PM

Originally Posted by Yes
Professions aren't here to make money anyway. Take for example Engineering. It has never made money outside of crafting a second rate gun. Professions like Blacksmithing, Tailoring, LW have never really made any money either (If you think making 200g selling an occasional leg enchant is profit...). And 'money making professions' like jewelcrafting and enchanting depended on either having rare gems/enchants plus standing around idling in a city for a long time. Gathering professions don't make real money either because you spend time riding looking for crap. The way the design of inscriptions stands, you won't make any serious money off it.

The people that want to make the money off of these professions make the same hundreds of thousands of gold that you make selling your arena points (which obviously you cant "legally" do anymore) and your "investing" in the auction house. Through TBC I have made 832,019 gold off of Jewelcrafting / Leatherworking, all without me spending a single minute farming for my own materials. The key is, as you said, finding the people who just want to unload their stash and/or looking for quick gold. However, I am sure that the 2 hours a night I put in resetting up the 250 auctions I put up a night can also be spent farming my own ore and/or leather.

For those of you who want the TIPS FROM THE PROS: There are hundreds of thousands of chinese farmers on your server. I guarentee it. Find out who they are (usually the people who put up 30 stacks of ore every day) and send them an in game whisper. Tell them you want to buy their ore COD for cheaper than the AH, and 95% of the time they will be happy to oblige (guarenteed they make their quota for the day) plus many of them will offer you other materials they got at a VERY discounted price (primal earth, fire, and even rare gems). Turning those around will easily make you a profit. I have been doing this for over a year, and its not hard to make 3-4k a day using this method. Just something to keep in mind!

As for WoTLK: Nothing makes me happier than making people do dailies to buy patterns to get the gem cuts. There wont be one or two people only that have certain cuts for a while, which will make the market a lot better for everyone, thus increasing profits for all of those involved in sales. better market means more spending means more money in your pocket which equals many 3 person mounts for the low low price of 14,999 gold!

Ambika · 10/22/08, 6:04 PM

I agree with Relk. I found farmers that were selling runecloth back in the day and I bought thousands of gold worth of them. They kept sending it to me CoD. I sent them Gold back. I made gold off their goods, they kept their job. Win/Win.

Finding them is the key. They are hard to come by, but you'll begin to see the pattern if you look hard enough.