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Old 11/05/08, 12:36 PM   1 links from elsewhere to this Post. Click to view. #1251
Roywyn
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Gnome Mage
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by boomix View Post
I've found that thottbot.com/wotlk site is far better resource then wowhead lately. They have full listing on Blacksmithing with materials and end products. Same goes for almost all of the professions.

One thing that was weird was the Titanuim Bar, it was listed as created by Alchemy and Smelting. Alchemy one was 92 hour cooldown and required a lot more materials then just smelting the bar. Can someone fill in details on this one?
You can gain Titanium Bar from either smelting Titanium Ore (1d Miner CD) or from alchemising Cobalt, Saronite and Life (4d Alchemist CD).

I got around 60 stacks of Saronite Ore and 2 stacks of Titanium Ore in beta.
Mind you that I was mostly ignoring Saronite really, could have easily gotten 150 stacks I guess.
Titanium is just that rare.

Image if you could get Arcanite either by smelting an Arcane Crystal or by alchemising Thorium and Mithril.
That would a decent comparison I came up with. One luck-based and one grind-based source.

The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.
 
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Old 11/05/08, 1:11 PM   #1252
boomix
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Death Knight
 
Malfurion
Originally Posted by Roywyn View Post
You can gain Titanium Bar from either smelting Titanium Ore (1d Miner CD) or from alchemising Cobalt, Saronite and Life (4d Alchemist CD).

I got around 60 stacks of Saronite Ore and 2 stacks of Titanium Ore in beta.
Mind you that I was mostly ignoring Saronite really, could have easily gotten 150 stacks I guess.
Titanium is just that rare.

Image if you could get Arcanite either by smelting an Arcane Crystal or by alchemising Thorium and Mithril.
That would a decent comparison I came up with. One luck-based and one grind-based source.
So because Titanium by alchemist is via transmute. Do transmute masters benefit from the chance to produce multiple items? Considering the cooldown its a good thing I will be bringing up 3 miners.

Last night was pessimistic skydive in a foolish narcotic shell
 
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Old 11/05/08, 2:57 PM   #1253
Orona
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Undead Mage
 
Das Syndikat (EU)
A friend of mine told me, that sapphiron didn't drop any shoulder enchants in naxx10. Also those enchants are not mentioned in the summaries of the professions. Did they remove the sapphirons completely? Otherwise I cannot see how inscription could be a viable choice for PvE dps.
 
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Old 11/05/08, 3:02 PM   #1254
Pyros
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The issue I had with titanium in beta is it could only be found in one zone, sholasar. However I believe they added nodes when they opened storm peaks, so it shouldn't be that hard to find them. I'd say on average, there were 1 titanium node up for every full zone reset in sholasar. Like I'd clear all the nodes I could find, usually find a titanium node, then on my 2nd round a titanium would have respawned instead of a saronite, or 2(but then it'd average with another round not having any titanium). You get a few ores out of every node, usually 3. Overall I had no problem capping my titansteel 20hours cooldown by flying around sholasar every day at 2AM before going to bed.

The transmute seems a bit underpowered, you need to farm crystalized life for them, it's 4days cooldown, all this for a single bar when you need 3 to make titansteel, which is the real point of those bars(with the exception of engineering).

Like the person above, I'm making 3miners. The biggest issue with multiple miners however is, you actually need to level them high enough to survive in sholasar for saronite, because smelting saronite gives no skillups and you need 450skill for titanium/titansteel. However with 3miners, after I'm done making my own titansteel set, I'm pretty sure I'll be able to get a LOT of gold rolling by just buying mats off the AH and converting them.

I feel they missed their objective with wotlk tradeskills though, a lot of tradeskills seem to be quite lacking. Smithing in particular feels like it's definitely not finished. I guess they'll patch new patterns in first content patch, but it feels really weak compared to the big list of craftables it had at BC release. Or maybe it's just an impression, but it would have been good at least to have one of each weapon type, even if they had the same stats.
 
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Old 11/05/08, 3:39 PM   #1255
RootBreaker
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Detheroc
Originally Posted by Orona View Post
A friend of mine told me, that sapphiron didn't drop any shoulder enchants in naxx10. Also those enchants are not mentioned in the summaries of the professions. Did they remove the sapphirons completely? Otherwise I cannot see how inscription could be a viable choice for PvE dps.
No, sapphiron doesn't drop shoulder enchants at 80.

Inscription Shoulder Enchants
Sons of Hodir Exalted Shoulder Enchants
 
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Old 11/05/08, 3:54 PM   #1256
glowacks
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Ravencrest
Originally Posted by evisania View Post
I've leveled inscription 295/300 so far on an alt and making decent money selling glyphs in the AH. So far I've been farming herbs (or using stored herbs) on another character, then milling on the scribe, making the ink, and crafting the glyph. Looking forward I'm a little concerned about marketing inscription other than with finished glyphs. Specifically, how to handle requests for specific glyphs from another player. The original materials (herbs) are really far removed from the ink actually called for in the glyph recipe. And the ink isn't obviously associated by name to the herbs (e.g. like mithril ore --> mithril bar, or even mithril ore --> mithril casing).

Does anyone else see this as a challenge? Will there be less "LF scribe for XXX glyph, have mats" for this profession, and more of just buying the lowest priced items off the AH? Anyone focusing on selling inks on the AH (as the final mat players would look for) at this point or just keeping your supplies to craft glyphs yourself?
This is something that I'm slightly concerned about as well; there are so many glyphs that it's really difficult to check prices or current availability on every single one, and so many of the glyphs that people want require low level herbs that you're not going to be getting from casual collecting while leveling. If a given glyph is not on the AH at all, it could just be no one thought there was a market for it, not that there's high demand for it. Additionally, I've not seen any pigments or inks on the AH that I haven't put there. Although I've only looked when I've went to put my own up, very often they wouldn't sell anyway. I was mainly selling in bulk to try to get some money from those trying to level it, but I hesitate to think that people will be listing pigments or inks, especially lower level ones.

The best solution I can see is people buying the low level herbs and offering 5 herbs for a single ink glyph and 10 for a 2-ink glyph. This would provide at minimum the required pigments (I think it *might* be possible to get multiple rare pigments and a single common pigment, but I can't substantiate this) and the additional pigments one would get out of that would make up for the parchment cost and provide for a tip. However, that's just my idea and it seems awkward. It's quite possible that people will put up single and double bottles of ink just to be bought by those who go to an scribe with mats (or for scribes themselves if they're cheaper than herbs) and I've heard there are mods that make doing this kind of thing less tedious, but it's not something that I would do compared to selling the raw or half-processed materials of other professions. Depending on the deposit it could quite likely be a losing proposition unless you only put up a few at a time in case you get undercut by someone else putting up a huge batch as well, in which case you'd have to devote a decent amount of attention to it. That's something I really don't want to do, but I can see those who like to play the market doing.

Really, I can see things developing differently on each server depending on how the majority of scribes on that server like to work and how much lower level herbs are available for sale. Regardless, it doesnt seem as intuitive to market as other professions.
 
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Old 11/05/08, 3:55 PM   #1257
Daenerys
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Tauren Druid
 
Scilla
Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
So based on the current information (for reference - http://elitistjerks.com/904932-post854.html )

All tanks should be leatherworkers, because there's no WotLK bracer enchant for Stamina and the 90 Stamina bonus on Fur Lining is insane. This also gives a minor boost with the resist enchants in case a resist fight shows up.

Until epic gems are introduced, Jewelcrafting gives the biggest boost because of metagem and socketing bonuses. It also has the side effect of being customizable in case a different stat is better than raw SP or AP. If or when epic gems are introduced, Jewelcrafting becomes very average and requires justification by eliminating bad gem colors.

Blacksmithing is arguably the second best profession for non-tanks. The two bonus gem slots are comparable to the bonuses other professions give (with rare gems) and become much more powerful with epic gems. The customization is probably what pushes it over the top. If you can get by with raw SP or AP, then Inscription/Leatherworking/Alchemy are all reasonable alternatives to Blacksmithing.

---

Summary-

Tanks: Jewelcrafting and Leatherworking
Non-tanks that want not-AP/SP: Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing
Non-tanks with AP/SP only: Jewelcrafting and Blacksmithing/Inscription/Alchemy/Leatherworking/Enchanting

Things that can cause this to change - epic gems (kills the power of Jewelcrafting and greatly increases the power of Blacksmithing) and a bracer enchant that's 48 stamina worse than Fur Lining- Stamina.
Sorry if I've missed it in another thread, but is Engineering completely garbage at this point? I remember hearing something about belt "enchants" for Engineers, but haven't seen anything about it in a while and you don't mention it as a profession-specific perk. Are there any benefits, even small, of being an Engineer apart from the gimmicky stuff?
 
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Old 11/05/08, 4:07 PM   #1258
 Jameson
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Jamesonn
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Originally Posted by Daenerys View Post
Sorry if I've missed it in another thread, but is Engineering completely garbage at this point? I remember hearing something about belt "enchants" for Engineers, but haven't seen anything about it in a while and you don't mention it as a profession-specific perk. Are there any benefits, even small, of being an Engineer apart from the gimmicky stuff?
Maybe you could click the link in the post you quoted?
 
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Old 11/05/08, 4:12 PM   #1259
Daenerys
Don Flamenco
 
Tauren Druid
 
Scilla
Originally Posted by Jameson View Post
Maybe you could click the link in the post you quoted?
Oops, missed that.
 
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Old 11/05/08, 4:50 PM   #1260
Addled
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Moonrunner
Originally Posted by Daenerys View Post
Sorry if I've missed it in another thread, but is Engineering completely garbage at this point? I remember hearing something about belt "enchants" for Engineers, but haven't seen anything about it in a while and you don't mention it as a profession-specific perk. Are there any benefits, even small, of being an Engineer apart from the gimmicky stuff?
Try checking out Engineering - WotlkWiki - Wrath of the Lich King Information

IMO, Engineering is one of the better crafting profs to take up. T7-equivalent helm (The T7 helm token will drop from Kel'Thuzad, so chances are that you won't see it for a bit of time, making it a great addition to your gear), belt/cloak/glove additions, and the usual craftable bombs, guns, and mounts.
 
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Old 11/05/08, 5:07 PM   #1261
 Jameson
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Jamesonn
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Originally Posted by Addled View Post
Try checking out Engineering - WotlkWiki - Wrath of the Lich King Information

IMO, Engineering is one of the better crafting profs to take up. T7-equivalent helm (The T7 helm token will drop from Kel'Thuzad, so chances are that you won't see it for a bit of time, making it a great addition to your gear), belt/cloak/glove additions, and the usual craftable bombs, guns, and mounts.
The problem is that Engineering has no PVE use other than the glove enchant. Most people will start getting equivalent helms in the first or second timer of Wotlk. To compare it to BC, it's like leveling a profession for a piece of Prince loot. By far, Engineering is the worst profession for raiding (with the information we know).
 
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Old 11/05/08, 5:19 PM   #1262
nataku
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Dwarf Priest
 
Tichondrius
I think Tailoring is by far the worst profession for PVE right now. The new cloth gear sets are nothing you can't already farm from 10 man instances, the cloak enchants are poor for dps classes, and the tailor only spellthreads are only cheaper forms of the boe spellthreads.
 
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Old 11/05/08, 9:19 PM   #1263
Addled
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Draenei Shaman
 
Moonrunner
Originally Posted by Jameson View Post
The problem is that Engineering has no PVE use other than the glove enchant. Most people will start getting equivalent helms in the first or second timer of Wotlk. To compare it to BC, it's like leveling a profession for a piece of Prince loot. By far, Engineering is the worst profession for raiding (with the information we know).
If you compare it to other professions, it's actually the best by far. All the other armor crafting professions (Tailoring, LWing, and Blacksmithing) only offer BoE gear, and some gear enhancements (fur linings, extra gem slots, etc). While there are rumors of crafting patterns dropping from raid instances, it really doesn't matter because once in a raid instance, you should be able to get regular raid gear drops.

The only craftable armor that is profession limited, so far, are the Engineering helms. The helms are BOE, but they require Engineering 400, so only engineers can wear them. T7 helms drop from KT, so the helms will probably have a decently long shelf life. Plus, your raid can gear up others with the helm tokens (or you can save up DKP/whatever for other items). And I wouldn't be surprised if Ulduar drops some upgrade schematics to turn t7-level engineering helms to t8-level.

Engineering is looking like a very solid choice for PvE. IMO, Blizzard got burned by the whole Tailoring set fiasco (they tried to nerf the tailoring sets, QQ ensued, Blizzard rolled back the nerf but buffed all the other raid gear). I doubt we'll see any craftable armor patterns that are better than equivalent raid gear drops. Blizzard seems to be moving professions towards buffing your current gear, and all crafting professions seem to have pretty decent buffing options.

Therefore, I don't believe that the crafting profession a person chooses will adversely affect them. All professions have good options to improve your gear.
 
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Old 11/05/08, 10:37 PM   #1264
Copernicus
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Originally Posted by Addled View Post
If you compare it to other professions, it's actually the best by far. All the other armor crafting professions (Tailoring, LWing, and Blacksmithing) only offer BoE gear, and some gear enhancements (fur linings, extra gem slots, etc). While there are rumors of crafting patterns dropping from raid instances, it really doesn't matter because once in a raid instance, you should be able to get regular raid gear drops.
Leatherworking and Blacksmithing offer a permanent bonus that can never be taken away and will always enhance the character forever and ever.

Engineering gives a helm that gets replaced by the new Prince.


Originally Posted by Addled
Therefore, I don't believe that the crafting profession a person chooses will adversely affect them. All professions have good options to improve your gear.
Except for Engineering, Tailoring, and the gathering professions.

Originally Posted by Verimonde
There will not be a Stormherald type weapon "high level crafter only". There are however a fair number of epic crafted BoE weapons that smiths will be able to make in LK.

We didn't like the vast number of people who felt they were required to be Blacksmiths in order to get a good weapon. Players should choose their trade skills based on what they enjoy, not what they feel they must do.
MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Will there be a makeable Stormherald like wep


I guess that answers the question on possible BoP epic gear for professions.

Last edited by Aldriana : 11/07/08 at 4:32 PM.
 
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Old 11/06/08, 1:48 AM   #1265
Addled
Piston Honda
 
Draenei Shaman
 
Moonrunner
Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
Leatherworking and Blacksmithing offer a permanent bonus that can never be taken away and will always enhance the character forever and ever.

Engineering gives a helm that gets replaced by the new Prince.




Except for Engineering, Tailoring, and the gathering professions.
The point I was trying to make was that all professions offer something, it almost doesn't matter what profession you take. If you want to talk about permanent bonuses, we can talk about the engineering haste "enchant" to glove, rocket boot ability to boots, slow fall ability to cape, etc.

Plus there will most likely be upgrade schematics for the engineering helm. The engineering helms in BC were good until Illidan, it's no coincidence that Sunwell introduced new patterns to replace them. If the engineering helms in LK are only equal to KT drops, then I would expect upgrade helm schematics to drop from Ulduar.
 
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Old 11/06/08, 2:19 AM   #1266
Kemortia
Von Kaiser
 
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Gilneas
Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
MMO-Champion BlueTracker - Will there be a makeable Stormherald like wep


I guess that answers the question on possible BoP epic gear for professions.
Curious, wonder what the benefits of being a specialty weaponsmith will be. Also doesn't mention armor, will they be giving smiths some kind of BoP only armor? I don't think you can necessarily say that this means the end of crafted BoP epic armor, for example I believe the tailoring stuff is still there. I'd guess they felt it wasn't fair in PvP to have folks with profession weapons against people who didn't.

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Old 11/06/08, 2:50 AM   #1267
Finkum
Don Flamenco
 
Human Priest
 
Frostmourne
Originally Posted by Kemortia View Post
Curious, wonder what the benefits of being a specialty weaponsmith will be. Also doesn't mention armor, will they be giving smiths some kind of BoP only armor? I don't think you can necessarily say that this means the end of crafted BoP epic armor, for example I believe the tailoring stuff is still there. I'd guess they felt it wasn't fair in PvP to have folks with profession weapons against people who didn't.
The tailoring gear is BoE too (and pretty badly itemised anyway). I believe the Leatherworking gear is also BoE, although I haven't checked recently.

The only benefit from a given crafting profession is its BoP "stat boost" (extra sockets/shoulder inscriptions/cloak embroidery etc.)

On a different note, the seemingly random item budgets given to enchants is kind of annoying. This isn't a new phenomenon by any means (e.g. +12 intellect/defense rating enchant to bracer has the same item budget as a 18 stamina enchant, but the stamina enchant is only +12 like the others), but it's really getting out of control. For the interests of simplicity I'll only mention enchants that boost a single stat or rating, but there now exist wrist enchants with item budgets of 15 (expertise), 16 (intellect), 18 (spirit), 19 (AP), 19.8 (SP), 25 (greater AP), and 25.8 (greater SP).

I suppose you could make an argument that enchants that require a higher skill should have a greater item budget but that unfairly penalises low level enchants like expertise that don't (currently) have a "greater" counterpart, and really just leads to unnecessary doubling up (did we really need two types of AP/SP enchants to wrist?)

Compare this to the strict adherence of Jewelcrafting to item budgets and it is doubly baffling.
 
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Old 11/06/08, 2:51 AM   #1268
Celillenna
Von Kaiser
 
Night Elf Priest
 
Draenor
Originally Posted by nataku View Post
I think Tailoring is by far the worst profession for PVE right now. The new cloth gear sets are nothing you can't already farm from 10 man instances, the cloak enchants are poor for dps classes, and the tailor only spellthreads are only cheaper forms of the boe spellthreads.
This. I was astoundingly disappointed in the Moonshroud set. I admit PMC was maybe too good for its placement but NO sockets?

Maybe Tailoring is one of the things set for buffs in the inevitable soon-after-release patch, the way PMC was buffed to add spirit to it.

Also, I'd imagine that the tailoring dailies if/when they come out will have some nice stuff, on par with the jewelcrafting dailies.
 
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Old 11/06/08, 4:14 AM   #1269
Vaccine
wants scorpions that hovar without flapping
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
Engineering gives a helm that gets replaced by the new Prince.
So does that make Malchezaar the artist formely known as?

Ahem.
I'm still skilling up Jewelcrafting, I think for the entrepeuner the most cash from the first week or two lies in the chokehold that the Darlaran Jewelcrafting tokens place on the profession. At this point I've been thinking I'll try and rush a Meta gem as they cost the most tokens so are harder for someone to casually pick up, especially if people are buying the common gem cuts (stam, pure reds) and dragon eye patterns first. The only concern I have is what sort of problems requiring Alchemists to transmute is going to cause on it. I also think one of the mixed colour gem cuts could sell well early, something like agi/hit or sp/hit.

Not too sure on the epic craftables though as it seems you replace most of them with Nax gear.

 
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Old 11/06/08, 6:32 AM   #1270
Milemarker
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
Al'Akir (EU)
From what I've seen on WowHead so far, there's a distinct lack of 'bridging' crafts to enable us to skill up from TBC crafts to WotLK ones. Does anyone have any experience of making this jump? I've been particularly looking at buying up mats for Enchanting & Jewelcrafting now to be ready for next week.

On the JC side, epic gem cuts look to go green at 380, grey at 385 skill and WotLK crafts aren't available until 390 (according to the WowHead information at Jewelcrafting Designs - Items - World of Warcraft).

Enchanting wise, Enchant Ring - Stats also goes green at 380, grey at 390 with the first WotLK formula available at 400 (Enchanting Formulae - Items - World of Warcraft).

I'm assuming WowHead is missing some crafts from their database, or I'm missing something here!
 
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Old 11/06/08, 6:43 AM   #1271
LCN
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Warlock
 
Darksorrow (EU)
Originally Posted by Vaccine View Post
So does that make Malchezaar the artist formely known as?
That earned my undying respect. Well done Sir, well done.

On topic; do any of the scribes here feel like herbalism is going to be totally useless after you've maxed out Inscribing? I mean sure, it can be used to make a little cash, but that's it. Mining is generally a better profession for that. I just don't see the point of herbing the little herbs I'll need at 80 after I have the glyphs I want. The "bonus" from herbalism is rather ridiculous as well. Herbs for researching glyphs can be bought from the AH, and even if they'd cost 40g / stack that'd just make it roughly a 10g/day expense, easily covered for by a single quest.

I reckon I'll be dropping it for something to support raiding, or even engineering for the little PvP sweets it comes with.
 
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Old 11/06/08, 6:46 AM   #1272
dukes
of the HMS Failboat
 
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Originally Posted by Milemarker View Post
I'm assuming WowHead is missing some crafts from their database, or I'm missing something here!
You want Spells -> Professions, not Items -> Recipes. Recipes are drops, Spells show all trainable ones too.
 
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Old 11/06/08, 7:52 AM   #1273
Okimi
Glass Joe
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Shadowsong (EU)
Originally Posted by Milemarker View Post
I'm assuming WowHead is missing some crafts from their database, or I'm missing something here!
Yes, in fact I remember training something to the tune of 65 new JC designs at the first trainer when I set foot into the beta with 375 JC. Among those new designs were a lot of green gem cuts with new stats/stat combinations.
 
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Old 11/06/08, 9:05 AM   #1274
Psykhe
Glass Joe
 
Draenei Death Knight
 
The Venture Co (EU)
Originally Posted by Addled View Post
The point I was trying to make was that all professions offer something, it almost doesn't matter what profession you take. If you want to talk about permanent bonuses, we can talk about the engineering haste "enchant" to glove, rocket boot ability to boots, slow fall ability to cape, etc.
Which do not stack with regular enchants, or, better: you can either have a regular enchant OR the tinkers. Lets take the gloves:

340 haste rating for 8 sec every 120 sec. That tranlates into an average 23 haste rating buff. Compared to the 20 agility or 44 attack power or 20 hit rating.. regular enchants I am not particulary impressed.

The other tinkers are without any exeption *worse* for PVE than the enchants for the same slot item. And considering you cannot use the current rocket boots in the arena it seems likely that you won't be able to use the new ones in the new arenas either.
So what are those good for? BGs? Yay...not.

Now compare that to BS, 2 gem slots. Which *do* stack with regular enchants.

There are still very much "good" and "bad" professions.
 
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Old 11/06/08, 10:59 AM   #1275
Evalara
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Human Mage
 
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Originally Posted by Vaccine View Post
...At this point I've been thinking I'll try and rush a Meta gem as they cost the most tokens so are harder for someone to casually pick up, especially if people are buying the common gem cuts (stam, pure reds) and dragon eye patterns first. The only concern I have is what sort of problems requiring Alchemists to transmute is going to cause on it...
Neither wowhead nor thottbot seems to currently know where the Skyflare or Earthsiege transmutes are learned. From reading other threads it seems they were available in beta, does anyone know where they came from? Trainer, rep, drop?
 
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