The actual explanation, from what I saw in beta with the cooking recipes, is much simpler:
For the Frostweave Bandage Manual, and for the green Cooking recipes: They're basically the loot of one person in the group. Only that person gets to roll on them. (I've seen people who didn't have cooking skilled up to get the recipes who got to roll on the recipes, and cooking recipes that I couldn't roll on despite not knowing them and having 375 skill.)) If that person passes, others can loot. The droprates are quite high, so it's not very important anyway.
I don't think that can be quite right. I'm pretty sure I had a situation where 5 people rolled on a bandage manual. That couldn't happen if one person has "preference".
Keep in mind that there was a change to Group Loot.
It seems you can only Roll on some items if you can actually use them. (We realized that pre wotlk in 3.0 when a 69 druid didn't see ANY of the loot with grouploot, it could be looted with FFA and ML tough.)
This also seems to affect profession drops. Group Loot simply seems to ignore people who do not met the skill requirement on some drops. However I could get JC420 req Meta designs at 418 JC.
Can anyone confirm whether you need 1, 350, or the actual 390 required to learn the recipe to get the BoP JC world drops?
I had the JC patterns drop for me with 375 skill. Ill bet my gold that it works for 1/450 aswell.
If not its not a major issue as patterns seems to have more or less a 100% drop chance.
So I would assume (and judging by the other comments), that when (some? all?) recipes drop-
- if you don't have the skill at all, you can't see it
- if you do have the skill, and are high enough to learn it (and don't have it), you will be able to roll
- if you do have the skill, but are not high enough to learn it *and are in a group with someone who is*, you won't be able to roll - but if no-one in your group is able to use it on the spot, then you will be able to roll.
This would appear to be the case. Last night, two Heavy Frostweave Bandage manuals dropped in Violet Hold, and myself and the Warrior in our group were the only ones with GM First Aid, but neither of us were 400 yet. We were both able to roll on the first one (I passed, cause Resto Druids use Bandages a lot less frequently than Warriors). None of the other group members were able to roll.
The Bad Clams recipe dropped as well - I forget who won it, but I'll ask my guildies to see if they can remember. I already had the recipe, but there are two other cooks in the group from what I can tell, so if they were able to roll off then that might offer more insight. I have a feeling that you nailed this on the head though.
Herb prices are somewhat insane. Last night I hit 400 Alchemy and was eager to do my first bit of research. Having only just finished my tour of the Fjord I didn't have the Adder's Tongue or Talandra's Rose necessary, so I figured I'd just spend the 50g or whatever it would take to get the mats I needed. Then I saw the 350g+ price tags for full stacks.
Depending on the server's population it's likely it'll be a month or so before the materials markets stabilize. In the meantime if you don't want to be the victim of price gouging you'll have to collect your own mats.
Its the same for enchanting mats. Infinite Dust is going for 10g per on my server. I have to now buy recipes using shards, at 4 shards per recipe, I much rather train them for 20g each. I don't like that I have to turn in shards to buy recipes to level my enchanting. This maybe would have been fine for high-end 450 enchanting recipes.
At the same time, I have found LW Leather to be reasonable, but I don't like Blizzard's implementation of extreme reliance on Skinning for LWs now. But I have been able to make some gold as LW by selling Nerubian Leg Armor and the Inscription 32 slot bag. But I will soon hit the level where I have to turn in Arctic Fur, which is frustrating as instead of using the mats to level I am turning them in.
I spent the first half hour of my time last night going in a circle around a single cluster of Cobalt in Zul'Drak. Every time I cleared a node, another one in the cluster would instantly respawn. I got tired of it eventually and went to quest, but I also found this to be true of every Cobalt cluster I came upon in Zul'Drak. It was pretty insane at one spot with 5 of us miners just sitting on the 9 or node spawns and rolling in ore. I'm not sure if it's a bug, or if it's a temporary measure to help the other professions along, but it took very little effort to get a couple hundred ore.
The couple Saronite clusters in Zul'drak on the Storm Peaks edge were not instantly respawning though.
I've noticed this as well, the fast re-spawn of ore nodes. I can do a 20 minute circle of Icecrown and have 100+ saronite, and a few titanium as well. I hope it isn't just temporary.
I know Drums of Battle, Restoration, and War do not work at level 80...but I notice that Panic and Speed don't mention such restriction...do they affect level 80 characters?
I've noticed this as well, the fast re-spawn of ore nodes. I can do a 20 minute circle of Icecrown and have 100+ saronite, and a few titanium as well. I hope it isn't just temporary.
Just to confirm herbs are also spawning at a fantastic rate in places such as Scholazar Basin and Zul'drak. Its hard to imagine AH prices staying high with that in place.
On Cooking, Inscription, and several other professions that are insanely hard to level to 450 (because they use recipes that "go grey" at 450): You don't need more than about 425 skill. There's nothing at 450, other than a Feat of Strength for the first person, so really no reason to try and get there.
We must assume that future content patches will significantly add to professions. Hopefully a change from TBC, when everything trained to 375 "out of the box", and then (with a few exceptions) remained the same for almost 2 years. It might even allow professions to remain relevant when new content is added to other parts of the game.
Originally Posted by Grayson Carlyle
...Every time I cleared a node, another one in the cluster would instantly respawn...
There's a theory that node respawning has become a bit more complex than "about an hour for a node to respawn, up to a maximum number of nodes visible in each local group" (one zone will likely have several groups, which can make this very hard to study) - and now factors in for the number of people in a zone (or part thereof), similar to mob spawning. Not that I fully understand mob spawning. The other theory is that all the reliable evidence was gathered on near-empty servers (since those are the only environments that can be controlled), and the minimum time to respawn has always been weighted by a factor for population or the amount of gathering activity.
Originally Posted by Jagiya
I was fishing in the waters outside Violet Hold and I fished up a Rusty Prison Key. ... However, when I approach the box, I can't interact with it whatsoever.
At first we thought there was a hidden level restriction (I only ever tested it at level 80). But the common view now is that this container was broken by a last-minute "fix".
Thank you so much for clarifying. I was beginning to think I was broken! Hope they "fix" it again soon.
As for the node spawns, I don't have any practical logic to add to the discussion; but based on recent posts, I had presumed that Mining/Herbalism nodes now followed the same rule as Fishing nodes; whereby a new one is immediately spawned each time one is depleted.
The best example I can give of this is the pools of "flotsam."
At any given point in time, there can only be "X" number of fishing nodes in a zone. The type of node is determined (randomly?) upon spawn. When I was farming The Scavenger - Achievement - World of Warcraft, it became swiftly clear that all I needed to do was farm any two nodes repeatedly as they caused eachother to respawn until one of them spawned flotsam, rather than tracking up and down the coast.
A few nights ago, my friend and I were farming Saronite in Sholazar, and we were able to stick to a very rigid cycle, guaranteeing that each node would follow the aforementioned description as we returned to mine it again.
This is the original analysis of fish pool spawning. That's 2-3 years old now. Even then it was apparent that the respawn timer was lower for certain pools: You could (probably still can) stand in Mirkfallon Lake (Stonetalon) and see new pools continually reappear. There was also a thread (probably on these forums) where someone posted a map showing how herb nodes grouped into sets. I suspect parts of the gold farming "community" had a reasonable idea how spawning worked much earlier.
On the WotLK beta server there was a build where only one fish node had been implemented in Sholazar Basin. I timed that to around 10 minutes (with a variation of something like 8-13 minutes). Gummo (better known as the Pacificist), who has probably fished more pools in Zangarmarsh than anyone else, commented that Serpent Lake in Zangarmarsh had used a short timer on live realms. My gut feeling had always been about an hour in Outland, but the only place I seriously tested that was with Highland Mixed Schools, which I know were tweaked around patch 2.1/2.2.
Overall, there is a tangible move away from nodes being hard to find, and rare nodes being harder still, to the game simply rewarding the act of moving from place to place. The days of camping that rare Black Lotus spawn in Winterspring are a distant memory. Or nightmare, if you prefer.
Well, while I very much appreciate the fast spawning of nodes, I think it'll pretty much ruin miner's income once botters get there. I'm gonna take a very simple example. There's about 4-5nodes which are on a 5min respawn INSIDE the sons of hodir village. If you've done the questline up to that part, they're neutral to you. It takes 20mins of reading a faq to make a script that will automine those nodes, with absolutely no chance of being killed(but by pvpers). There's actually plenty of "safe" nodes all over the place too. In BC, even with flying mounts, you'd often have to kill one mob roaming around a node which aggroed you while mining. In WoTLK, it's pretty simple to just stay at one spot with 0mobs and mine as the veins repop.
It might be because they're on fast respawn due to launch and stuff, but currently mining is definitely a bit on the too easy side. Fine with me however, stacks of saronite going for 75g each, I can mine like 10stack in one hour, will pay for my titansteel so I don't wait on the cd. But I find the change to be questionnable, especially since other professions didn't seem to get really any better(skinning?).
I tested it every level up to 77. 77 is a requirement, not just the quest level.
Just a little correction since i was scared myself of that comment. You can definately get the JC Daily at 74 at least (not sure if maybe even earlier). I didnt bothered myself to go to Dalaran before but this morning i went with my level 74 Character there et voila i got the JC Daily!
Just a little correction since i was scared myself of that comment. You can definately get the JC Daily at 74 at least (not sure if maybe even earlier). I didnt bothered myself to go to Dalaran before but this morning i went with my level 74 Character there et voila i got the JC Daily!
I managed to begin both the cooking and jewelcrafting dailies at level 71
Just a little correction since i was scared myself of that comment. You can definately get the JC Daily at 74 at least (not sure if maybe even earlier). I didnt bothered myself to go to Dalaran before but this morning i went with my level 74 Character there et voila i got the JC Daily!
They were talking about the damaged necklace quest not the JC daily. I can do the JC daily just fine at level 70 but can't do the damaged necklace.
It might be because they're on fast respawn due to launch and stuff, but currently mining is definitely a bit on the too easy side. Fine with me however, stacks of saronite going for 75g each, I can mine like 10stack in one hour, will pay for my titansteel so I don't wait on the cd. But I find the change to be questionnable, especially since other professions didn't seem to get really any better(skinning?).
Is this possibly a ploy to pull down the price of ore overall? Every miner I have talked to seems to have the ore coming out of their ears, so I can't imagine the prices staying like this for very long. It was always my impression that ore was the most expensive of the gathered materials (cloth, herbs, ore). Cloth being (usually) dirt cheap, herbs ranging from cheap to medium, and ore usually staying medium to expensive.
Was this kind of fast respawning observed in the beta?
It seems unlikely the spawn rates are actually unusual, though they are probably higher than we are accustomed to. It is well documented that server and zone population impacts spawn rates. Considering that the majority of the players are in the Northrend zones (on the continent and not in BGs or on bank alts in the old world), as well as there being a very limited number of people actually in a position to gather or prioritizing gathering in the higher zones. So the number of players online is higher, and virtually all of them are in Northrend, thus increasing the overall spawn rates.
You also have a situation where the individuals gathering from them are getting a higher percentage than they would if the level balance was normal, because not as many people are in the high zones, and those that are there aren't emphasizing gathering. I suspect people will notice that as the number of people competing for the nodes increases, the number they get as individuals goes down. Basically, enjoy it while you can.
That said, it would be nice if they have boosted spawn rates overall and they stay high, because the game has never managed to keep up reasonably with the amount of demand.
Early TBC had higher spawn rates at throne of elements, which lead to much higher availability for primals while people were leveling professions - the spawn rate was eventually toned down. I actually think having higher availability of profession materials early in an expansion is good for the game, since so many people want them then, and wouldn't be entirely surprised if there were faster spawn rates for resource nodes initially.
I believe early TBC also had a lot of fast-spawning Fel Iron nodes just around the Dark Portal, but my current impression of the mining is that Cobalt ores seem more rare than Saronite - a tour around Sholazar Basin will net me several stacks of Saronite in 10 minutes or so, whereas you have to search more for the Cobalt.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: Igor, help me with the bags.
Igor: Soitenly. You take the blonde, I'll take the one in the turban.
Dr. Frederick Frankenstein: I was talking about the luggage.
Throne of Elements was actively nerfed in 2.1, it was not a random result of population which reduced the spawn rate there.
The Fel Iron nodes around the Dark Portal were also completely removed by Blizzard, not sure which patch that occurred though. It is pretty clear that in Classic and TBC it was a design decision that gathering nodes would only spawn where mobs were aggro... as another example, the mine in Blasted Lands, which is friendly to Alliance, had a great deal of ore nodes in original retail, which were again removed in some classic patch.
My guess is that spawn rates were left intentionally high for 3.0 to ensure levelling tradeskills was reasonable, and that after the levelling rush is over these spawn rates will be reduced in a future patch.
Throne of Elements was actively nerfed in 2.1, it was not a random result of population which reduced the spawn rate there.
The Fel Iron nodes around the Dark Portal were also completely removed by Blizzard, not sure which patch that occurred though. It is pretty clear that in Classic and TBC it was a design decision that gathering nodes would only spawn where mobs were aggro... as another example, the mine in Blasted Lands, which is friendly to Alliance, had a great deal of ore nodes in original retail, which were again removed in some classic patch.
My guess is that spawn rates were left intentionally high for 3.0 to ensure levelling tradeskills was reasonable, and that after the levelling rush is over these spawn rates will be reduced in a future patch.
Well, yeah, that's exactly what I was saying. It's entirely possible that resource-dropping mob spawns and resource node spawns are higher intentionally at an expansion release and then scaled back later to aid profession advancement early and prevent market flooding later if they were left at the same rates.
It really looks like all personal gains from BS/LW/JC/enchanting/inscription are pretty much balanced to be equal (that is, giving the same itemization points gain to your character), but has a few "holes" in it:
-Inscription for tanking gives avoidance, while blacksmithing/JC allows you to choose which stats you want and LW gives stamina.
-Blacksmithing is balanced around rare gems - if at some point you can have epic gems in all your gear and the extra sockets from blacksmithing, the 2 extra sockets trump other professions.
-Leatherworking and enchanting have attack power but not strength, providing slightly less value for classes that prefer strength. It also forces healer to take spellpower over mana regen (however this probably isn't an issue assuming spellpower is a better use of item budget).
-Jewelcrafting is also balanced around blue quality gems, therefore with epic gems in all your gear it loses value.
Overall it seems that unless your class suffers from one of the differences listed above, it's probably best to choose the profession that is cheapest to level if you don't already have one, and/or can make the most gold on your server if you go that way. Of possibly blacksmithing which seems to have the best long-term potential, however it's also possible that by the time epic gems are available, other professions will be rebalanced to compensate.
If they do balance everything around epic gems when those show up, currently JC/BS provide the most flexibility by letting you use your item budget on whatever stat you find best, and therefore get the most of it.
Mining and herbalism are not an option as their bonuses are clearly inferior, at least for raiding. Engineering is still in the dust however it doesn't seem to provide anything useful beyond the fun factor or maybe PvP, unless I'm missing something. Alchemy's bonuses are also too small even if you're flasked the entire time.
11/19/08, 5:08 AM
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