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Old 07/29/08, 2:01 PM   #76
• Chicken
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Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
I doubt this will be possible. There's one type of blank scroll that holds "enchants that go on weapons", another that holds "enchants that go on armor", another that holds "enchants that go on cloaks". I can't see them having much reason to make one for "enchants that go on rings".
I believe the actual mechanic is that "Enchants that go on armor" counts for any piece of gear which isn't a weapon which can be enchanted. So that includes bracers, cloaks, gloves, chest, boots and shields.

It is nevertheless the case that the scrolls probably won't support ring enchants though.

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Old 07/29/08, 2:02 PM   #77
Vodrin
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Tauren Druid
 
Magtheridon (EU)
Originally Posted by Regen View Post
Kumar: It was my understanding that these "enchant scrolls" would act like a complete enchant. So basically Beside your "Enchant Button" will be a "Create Scroll" button which will consume all the materials (+ appropriate level Inscription scroll?) which just becomes an item similar to leg patches.
You just enchant onto the scroll like it was an item, consuming the mats. Then that turns it into the appropiate scroll to be used by anyone onto their item of choice.

edit: ok that was a bit late.

Anything been mentioned anywhere for tailoring bonus? Maybe a BoP leg enchant similar to leatherworking.

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Old 07/29/08, 2:23 PM   #78
songster
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Earthen Ring (EU)
Originally Posted by Calixtus View Post
So why does a jewelcrafter make more money than a blacksmith?
In my experience, jewelcrafting makes comparatively little money. In the early days of the server, when recipes are rare, of course it does - as do most professions. However, once the recipe set has become commonplace, the crafting itself makes very little money except 2-5g tips from people that are too impatient to wait till their guild crafter is online. What does make quite a bit of money is Prospecting - because it's a gathering skill.

The same is true of enchanting - the actual service profession makes comparatively little money, and the wealth is actually created at the disenchanting step. This is because Disenchanting is also a gathering profession.

It's a very simple equation - by and large all gathering professions make money, while all crafting or service professions lose money. Jewelcrafting and Enchanting are only odd ones out because they include their own gathering profession. Conversely, Tailoring is also an odd one out, because there is no associated gathering profession.

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Old 07/29/08, 2:28 PM   #79
Shuror
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Pandaren Priest
 
Bladefist (EU)
Originally Posted by songster View Post
Yup, just like jewelcrafting was OP because of all the gems you could cut at lower skill levels. Alternatively, not. Inscription also makes materials like parchments, ink and so on, scrolls, and low-power cosmetic glyphs. What on Earth makes you think they'll have to put overpowered high-end glyphs as low skill level items?
Well, because the Glyphs we've seen so far scale with level (unlike static gem bonuses). The Glyph interface is, as far as I know, available from level 1, in contrary to gem slots which only were available at level 60 and higher.

It wouldn't make sense if a Glyph-crafting profession was available from level 1, coupled with the Glyph interface, but there wouldn't be any available Glyphs until 70+.

I'm not saying that the Glyphs will be overpowered, but that there is a chance/risk that some of them will be in at least some demand by high level players. Of course, this is not much of a difference compared to Quickness Potion/Deviate Delight demand, but if there are too many Glyphs of that sort, it might pose a problem.

Originally Posted by Copernicus View Post
Leatherworking

* Can use drums (Drums of Great Battle, Drums of Dark War, and Drums of Major Restoration)
*** Drums cause Tinnitus - Spell - World of Warcraft which prevents drum stacking.
* Two BoP leg armors (Wyrmscale Leg Armor - Spell - World of Warcraft and Dragonscale Leg Armor - Spell - World of Warcraft) which give a bonus of 30 attack power/18 crit and 25 stam/17 agility, respectively, over the epic BoE leg armors.
I find it quite unfair that caster Leatherworkers don't get an equivalent leg armor. Yes, I know, it is Tailoring which is the caster leg enchant crafting profession, but only physical DPS classes benefitting from the profession is wrong in my eyes.

They even stole the prefix of caster leather gear, "Wyrm", and put it on the melee DPS enchant.

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Old 07/29/08, 3:36 PM   #80
ZeroWashu
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Eitrigg
Originally Posted by songster View Post
money, and the wealth is actually created at the disenchanting step. This is because Disenchanting is also a gathering profession.

It's a very simple equation - by and large all gathering professions make money, while all crafting or service professions lose money. Jewelcrafting and Enchanting are only odd ones out because they include their own gathering profession. Conversely, Tailoring is also an odd one out, because there is no associated gathering profession.
Engineering essentially has its gathering profession as well, I made the bulk of my money simply from gas cloud harvesting. I would go as far to say that for the most part it out gains my enchanting and any of my other gathering professions. Without it I would not see the value of having more than one engineer character per account. Combine with the ammo that can be created and used by level 62 at that and it really did pay well. The DPS (43) exceeded all rep gained ammo until timeless arrows. I still make a small fortune on these by keeping them down below 1.8g a stack.

One area I think needs desperate expanding is availability of recipes that produce items which sell. Crafting wise my alchemist, engineer, and tailors, never had any problem selling through AH. There always seemed to be a bigger need for my tailoring items even when they were expensive compared to my blacksmith. My alchemist and engineer kept my auctioneer loaded with items that I never worried about moving. I could list a sword two or three times before it sold yet turn over ten times that through the other two. Hopefully temporary inscriptions and glyphs will move the same.

Which brings me back to, while tailoring was too powerful for self crafted items I would prefer to see other trade skills brought up to par. I would prefer each trade skill to be able generate end game pieces. It should be a viable route just as raiding for item drops or running BGs/Arenas are.

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Old 07/29/08, 3:59 PM   #81
Douglas
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Originally Posted by Chicken View Post
I believe the actual mechanic is that "Enchants that go on armor" counts for any piece of gear which isn't a weapon which can be enchanted. So that includes bracers, cloaks, gloves, chest, boots and shields.
Hm... I was sure I saw one specifically for cloaks before, but I'm having trouble digging out the reference. Can someone in beta run some experiments?

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Old 07/29/08, 4:01 PM   #82
Zurgat
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Originally Posted by Parbag View Post
I made the flask with my rogue.
Could you check whether healing potions award you more health as well?
And, if possible (though unlikely) whether the effect stacks with the alchemy trinket.


It also seems the added value isn't a fixed percentage, looks strange.
[Elixir of Major Agility] (+5 Agi / +5 Crit Rating) :
I'll ignore the crit rating for now due to the fact that agility will increase crit as well.
5/35 : 14%

[Elixir of Mastery] (gain +4 all Stats)
4/15 : 26%

Elixir of Major Fortitude +300 health (instead of 250 health) : +50 health
50/250 : 25%

Would have to see more potions to get a better idea of how it works, but your result is rather odd so far.


Originally Posted by Shuror View Post
I find it quite unfair that caster Leatherworkers don't get an equivalent leg armor. Yes, I know, it is Tailoring which is the caster leg enchant crafting profession, but only physical DPS classes benefitting from the profession is wrong in my eyes.

They even stole the prefix of caster leather gear, "Wyrm", and put it on the melee DPS enchant.
It's likely tailoring will receive an equivalent leg enchant much like leatherworking has.
It does seem blizzard prefers leatherworking to be actually used by leather or mail users though. And tailoring by cloth users.

Last edited by Zurgat : 07/29/08 at 5:41 PM.

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Old 07/29/08, 4:03 PM   #83
• Chicken
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Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
Hm... I was sure I saw one specifically for cloaks before, but I'm having trouble digging out the reference. Can someone in beta run some experiments?
The closest I can give you to a source:



Not my picture, it's from Schwick, one of the European MVP posters on the blizz forums. That's an armor scroll getting enchanted with a bracer enchant. Not perfect I guess since you could define a cloak as clothing instead.

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Old 07/29/08, 4:22 PM   #84
Smurrf
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Something's been nagging at me the whole time since I've heard of the potion change today, and I finally nailed down what it was.

People are equating the change in flasks/elixirs (for simplification sake, I'm referencing elixirs as well when discussing flasks for the rest of the post) to the new change in potion usage. However, they're not the same. The benefit of the use of flasks doesn't change, no matter how long a single fight goes. Blizz took out the ability to use multiple long-term consumables, and then adjusted content around the new level of usage. But the benefit of using over time did not change. It's static. You're getting 500 HP & 10 def no matter if the fight is 30 secs or 12 mins from Flask of Fortification.

With potions, that's always been a little different. The benefit actually changes over time, and spikes every time a new cooldown point is reached and you can pop another one. You can actually calculate how much a potion gives in mp/5 (or dps), but that fluctuates. If you were to actually plot effectiveness of a potion against the length a fight took, you'd see roughly a sawshape form (with spikes every time you're able to pop another pot, then steadily decreasing until another CD hits.) Overall though, the effectiveness of potions remains fairly steady, due to the relatively short duration of the CD.

That is not the case with the new change. If you plot effectiveness of a potion over time of fight for a single potion, all you're going to see is a single spike when you use it, but steadily decreasing, with a trend towards zero the longer a fight goes. What does this mean? Potion usage will still be useful in fights that hover around 3-5 minutes, but will steadily decrease in value for longer fights. All of the reactive potions (Mana, Health, Stoneshield, and whatever gives back rage/energy) will still retain some usefulness as 'oh sh**' buttons, but more DPS oriented potions appear to have lost just about any form of usefulness in longer fights.

What's worse? The usefulness of potions will become even less than what one could calculate out for DPS or MPS, because instead of using it with the knowledge that in two minutes you'll be able to use any potion at all again, now you're faced with a choice the whole fight through. 'Do I waste the pot now, or do I save it for later?' will be a constant thought in the back of the mind, and it's really that whole 'point of no return' situation that has me concerned. How many times will we see a tank drop because the healer used his pot three minutes in, then is tapped out by minute 9? Conversely, how many times will we actually see tanks die at 3, just because their healer wanted to push back use of a pot, and go OO5SR in an attempt to restore a small amount of mana instead?

Of course, people will adjust, but I just don't like potion usage benefits becoming wildly variable, based solely on length of the fight.

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Old 07/29/08, 4:23 PM   #85
Illy
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Icecrown
Originally Posted by songster View Post
The same is true of enchanting - the actual service profession makes comparatively little money, and the wealth is actually created at the disenchanting step. This is because Disenchanting is also a gathering profession.
This disparity really needs to be addressed. Along with tailoring, enchanting has no gathering component that takes up a separate profession slot, leaving folks with those trades the opportunity to get another crafting profession. While it's nice that they're giving herbalists, miners, and skinners a minor buff for having said profession they're still just that: minor buffs. Min/maxers will still skip them for other producing professions.

Blizz should just take this opportunity to finally roll the gathering professions into their respective production ones and simplify things a bit. This could also help smooth out the leveling process for professions. Let's be honest, professions are almost all about the top level of their skill, there's little to no market for low level crafted items. Let a skinner/LW level up by doing both till a point (say, when the expansion hits up through 350ish), and then let the current system of only going up by crafting items be for current content. It always was a bit silly that to level a profession like LWing, I had to make heaps of worthless items that I usually just vendored/DEed.

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Old 07/29/08, 4:44 PM   #86
Copernicus
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Originally Posted by Smurrf View Post
Something's been nagging at me the whole time since I've heard of the potion change today, and I finally nailed down what it was.

...
One of the main points of the change is to make potion usage something that requires thought, instead of mindlessly smashing the key every 2 minutes. So yes, a character will have to make a decision on when to use their potion for the fight - based entirely on the dynamics of the fight and when it's the best time to use it.

Hopefully, it will also allow for more powerful potions that would be too good if used every 2 minutes, but are perfectly fine on a once/fight level.




Originally Posted by Douglas
Hm... I was sure I saw one specifically for cloaks before, but I'm having trouble digging out the reference. Can someone in beta run some experiments?
Scroll of Enchant Cloak - Major Resistance

Can't confirm if they come from Bleached Parchments, but I think they do.

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Old 07/29/08, 4:52 PM   #87
 frmorrison
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Originally Posted by Malakitoo View Post
Do we know what level of glyph is granted by inscription?

Also, what happened to the abilities granted to certain gathering professions? IIRC, there was something like a bleed effect which could be applied by a skinner, etc. Were those taken out/never actually existed?

The solution to "having to relevel enchanting for every new ring" will be to enchant 16 parchments with spell power/whatever, then drop enchanting. Yes, you can't sell them, but you should be covered.
Most likely a Major glyph, to reward people that pick that profession.

There was a skinning bleed and mining ranged attack, but they were removed from the spell list a few builds ago.

I doubt you will be able to "store" ring enchants for use when you drop enchanting, but I could be surprised.

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Old 07/29/08, 4:56 PM   #88
Jubling
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Argent Dawn (EU)
I've only seen "armor" and "weapon" enchant scroll recipes on the Inscription trainer. So unless they're part of the higher skill recipes that aren't on the trainer yet I think cloaks and rings simply use the armor scroll.

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Old 07/29/08, 4:59 PM   #89
• Chicken
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Originally Posted by Jubling View Post
I've only seen "armor" and "weapon" enchant scroll recipes on the Inscription trainer. So unless they're part of the higher skill recipes that aren't on the trainer yet I think cloaks and rings simply use the armor scroll.
Rings are actually likely to not be usable with the scrolls, as we were discussing over the last few pages. They're supposed to be a perk for having enchanting on your character and are only supposed to be usable on your own rings, so no need to allow the creation of consumable items that cast the ring enchants.

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Old 07/29/08, 5:03 PM   #90
Jubling
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Draenei Paladin
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Or maybe the scrolls become BoP, like a BoE ring binds if you enchant it? But yeah, it's probably more likely that ring enchants don't work with the scroll system so you can't store them up and switch to a different profession. Certainly something to test once the high-level scrolls are put in.

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