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Old 09/24/08, 1:19 PM   #886
Malleus
King Hippo
 
Human Paladin
 
Bronze Dragonflight (EU)
Originally Posted by Darkrenown View Post
I don't know if it'd be workable, but I suppose they could make a copy of every weapon in the game and add another version with the bonus socket. You get the item, cast "add socket" on it, it's destroyed and you are given the verion with the extra socket instead.
The problem with that idea is that it would also destroy any existing gems or enchants on the weapon. Imagine you're a Blacksmith, and you've thrown Executioner onto your Torch or Cat's Edge. Then patch 3.0 is released, and you find you can't socket it without shelling out for a new enchant. Not good.

Also, can't Blacksmiths socket other people's weapons? If you can and you erased someone else's Executioner or Mongoose without telling them, I imagine you'd be able to hear the screams on the moon.

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Old 09/24/08, 1:58 PM   #887
choumarin
Glass Joe
 
Human Rogue
 
Medivh (EU)
I finally got a Excel 2003 version working that I'll post in a few hours.
For the moment, here is the path I find using wowhead data :

1	22	Silver Ink
23	29	Scroll of Intellect
30	51	Moonglow Ink
52	60	Scroll of Recall
61	75	Bleached Vellum
76	91	Glyph of Frost Nova
92	93	Bleached Vellum
94	99	Glyph of Hammer of Justice
100	121	Treated Vellum
122	124	Mysterious Tarot
125	127	Glyph of Arcane Missiles
128	129	Glyph of Fear
130	137	Glyph of Distract
138	144	Mysterious Tarot
145	149	Glyph of Sunder Armor
150	154	Jadefire Ink
155	163	Glyph of Astral Recall
164	164	Scroll of Stamina III
165	169	Scroll of Spirit III
170	174	Scroll of Intellect III
175	175	Glyph of Shadow Bolt
176	179	Glyph of Overpower
180	189	Glyph of Levitate
190	190	#N/A
191	191	#N/A
192	192	#N/A
193	193	#N/A
194	194	#N/A
195	199	Glyph of Revenge
200	204	Celestial Ink
205	209	Glyph of Safe Fall
210	214	Inscribed Vellum
215	224	Scroll of Recall II
225	229	Scroll of Strength IV
230	234	Scroll of Agility IV
235	244	Glyph of Cleaving
245	249	Shadowy Tarot
250	259	Fine Vellum
260	264	Glyph of Bone Shield
265	273	Glyph of Frost Strike
274	274	Scroll of Strength V
275	275	Glyph of Shadowburn
276	280	Glyph of Sprint
281	294	Ink of the Sky
295	299	Glyph of Plague Strike
300	301	Ethereal Ink
302	303	Glyph of Feint
304	304	Glyph of Rake
305	308	Glyph of Corpse Explosion
309	313	Glyph of Holy Nova
314	314	Glyph of Mage Armor
315	318	Glyph of Blood Strike
319	324	Glyph of Mage Armor
325	325	Glyph of Windfury Weapon
326	329	Glyph of Arcane Power
330	333	Glyph of Blood Tap
334	335	Glyph of Ambush
336	339	Glyph of Banish
340	343	Glyph of Whirlwind
344	349	Glyph of Banish
350	350	Ink of the Sea
351	380	Glyph of Turn Evil
381	385	Glyph of Felhunter
386	399	Glyph of Chain Lightning
400	404	Glyph of Mass Dispel
405	415	Glyph of Water Elemental
416	420	Glyph of Mind Soothe
421	430	Glyph of Aspect of the Beast
431	449	Glyph of Crippling Poison
And the associated "shopping list" :

Count	Item	Cost
107,02	Herb type # 1	1,86
395,54	Herb type # 2	27,66
65,04	Herb type # 3	14,29
234,74	Herb type # 4	78,77
1113,38	Herb type # 5	362,94
698,90	Herb type # 6	335,89
177,82	Herb type # 7	71,56
340,92	Herb type # 8	340,92
24,88	Silverleaf	0,43
138,17	Light Parchment	0,21
203,25	Common Parchment	3,15
199,98	Heavy Parchment	31,20
154,94	Resilient Parchment	96,84
		
	Total	1365,71
As i stated on El's forums, I'm looking on feedback on the calculation mechanism, not on the results, that can totally change depending on what blizzard changes each build.

About Ukerric's spreadsheet, it seems it doesn't serve the same purpose (how to best use herbs I have) than mine (how to level the cheapest) but I'm sure I can use some of your work (of course with your permission ).

Edit : XLS version : http://thechosenone.free.fr/WoW/Leve...ions_v0.10.zip

Last edited by choumarin : 09/24/08 at 4:32 PM.

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Old 09/24/08, 3:39 PM   #888
timski
Von Kaiser
 
Gnome Warlock
 
Ravenholdt (EU)
On Inscription data: We're now getting 2 builds each week, so the "goal posts" are continually moving. Wowhead (which is normally pretty good) seems to be finding items that do not appear to be on the EU beta realm yet (they have some minor glyphs listed now). And anyone basing Inscription on data-mining is going to be disappointed: Time after time we've seen that a spells.dbc entry does not automatically equate to an in-game item or ability.

Personally I'm only listing what I find in-game, and re-analysing it with each new build. I'm only human, so the odd error will creep in, but the vast majority will be accurate. I may have to re-evaluate that approach for discoveries, but those are unlikely to be relevent to leveling. In Friday's build the leveling curve was so close to broken, that I did not bothered working through the skills levels past about 225: Far too many of the most efficient skill-ups were "in the green" - multiple stacks of herbs could be used gaining a single point in some places. I concluded that the numbers are still being balanced, and everything will change again - perhaps in a few hours.

I took a stab at 100-150 (1 group of herbs, where the orange/yellow/green/grey numbers felt about right in the Friday build), and concluded around 6 stacks of herbs in that bracket were required to level 50 points. However, if you read that closely it shows a flaw: I didn't use the rarer (Verdant) pigment at all. Milling 6 stacks of herbs would have averaged 10 of the rarer pigment. The only ink it makes is Dawnstar, which is basically used for low-ish level BoP items (of no interest to power-levelers). To make Dawnstar you need both a common and a rare pigment, soyou still need to use all the materials that you would have used to make the glyph, plus the extra rare pigment. Since you can stay "in the orange" on glyphs at that point, and produce something that probably sells/"is useful", glyphs remain the best strategy. The perplexing result (if this structure remains on live) is that the "rare" pigments flood the auction house, with a far lower price than the common pigments, because they are only attractive to new rolls, who benefit from the tarot and off-hands. Another reason why I don't think it is done yet.

It still isn't entirely clear whether glyphs are going to become a raid/PvP consumable (the Lexicon of Power requirement to swap them suggests a move away from the "all you can eat" approach, although retains the possibility of swapping glyphs boss-to-boss for those looking for every possible advantage), or indeed whether scrolls will became a serious consumable (but the materials are fairly intense for a consumable), or whether there won't be a regular consumable and Inscription will gain some other long-term production role, or whether Inscription will not be production-orientated, with the main benefits being personal only (the engineering model).

Overall, I'm increasingly concerned that Inscription will go live without adequate testing and balance: They're aiming to get this into the pre-patch, which is literally weeks away. For several months I thought this slow implementation might be a rouse to stop herb speculation breaking the pre-Wrath economy... but increasingly I think they simply don't know yet...

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Old 09/24/08, 3:50 PM   #889
• Chicken
 
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Upsidazi
Gnome Monk
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by choumarin View Post
<Spreadsheet results, snipped out for readability>
While I haven't tried levelling the profession myself, I can tell you that the current amount of Outland Herbs (I think that's herb type 6 in your list?) is much higher than you list. Though it's likely it'll change in the beta build that's currently being put on the server. Just quoting from a random European beta tester here indicates that there was a need to make 47 glyphs to gain a single skill points at 339 skill. See here: WotLK Beta (EU-English) Forums -> [Feedback] Inscription in 8970

The same tester mentions this being true for the past skill points as well, so it isn't entirely bad luck.

Of course, that's kind of a moot point since it's likely to be overhauled in the new build.

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Old 09/24/08, 4:06 PM   #890
Mikari
Banned
 
Moo
Dwarf Priest
 
Bloodhoof
A few changes in todays build

Professions changes
Engineering

* Flying Machine now requires 350 engineering skill to ride.
* Turbo-Charged Flying Machine now requires 375 engineering skill to ride.
* Nitro Boosts boot enchantment for engineers now increases run speed for 5 seconds. (Down from 8 seconds)


Leatherworking

* Fur Lining - Attack Power - Permanently enchant bracers to increase attack power by 114. Can only be used on the leatherworker's bracers, and doing so will cause them to become soulbound. (Down from 120)
* Fur Lining - Spell Power - Permanently enchant bracers to increase spell power by 67. Can only be used on the leatherworker's bracers, and doing so will cause them to become soulbound. (Down from 70)


Tailoring

* Magnificient Flying Carpet and all the Flying Carpet mounts requires 425 skill in tailoring to ride.
* Lightweave Embroidery changed to "Embroiders a subtle pattern of light into your cloak, giving you a chance to cause an additional 1000 to 1200 Holy damage when you damage an enemy with a spell. You can only embroider your own cloak and embroidering your cloak will cause it to become soulbound. Requires 400 Tailoring to use." (Up from 800-1000 Holy Damage)
* Swordguard Embroidery changed to "Embroiders a magical pattern into your cloak, causing your damaging melee attacks to sometimes increase your attack power by 300 for 15 sec. You can only embroider your own cloak and embroidering your cloak will cause it to become soulbound. Requires 400 Tailoring to use." (Old - Ignore 1000 of your target's armor)

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Old 09/24/08, 4:06 PM   #891
Valerian
King Hippo
 
Night Elf Druid
 
Blackhand
Originally Posted by timski View Post
It still isn't entirely clear whether glyphs are going to become a raid/PvP consumable (the Lexicon of Power requirement to swap them suggests a move away from the "all you can eat" approach, although retains the possibility of swapping glyphs boss-to-boss for those looking for every possible advantage), or indeed whether scrolls will became a serious consumable (but the materials are fairly intense for a consumable), or whether there won't be a regular consumable and Inscription will gain some other long-term production role, or whether Inscription will not be production-orientated, with the main benefits being personal only (the engineering model).
Hmm I think I must have missed the whole swapping Glyphs thing. I heard first there was a 1 hour cooldown on using any of the SAME Glyph. Later it was no cooldown at all. What is the Lexicon of Power that you're now referring to?

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Old 09/24/08, 4:14 PM   #892
• Chicken
 
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Upsidazi
Gnome Monk
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Valerian View Post
Hmm I think I must have missed the whole swapping Glyphs thing. I heard first there was a 1 hour cooldown on using any of the SAME Glyph. Later it was no cooldown at all. What is the Lexicon of Power that you're now referring to?
It's a new object in the game world, comparable to a forge or anvil, found near Inscription Trainers. It's basically a large floating book, and attempting to use a glyph while not near one will give an "Requires Lexicon of Power" error.

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Old 09/24/08, 4:16 PM   #893
PSGarak
Bald Bull
 
PSGarak's Avatar
 
Undead Warlock
 
Hyjal
The Lexicon of Power is basically the Forge/Anvil/Cooking Fire for Inscription. You need to be standing next to it to re-Glyph, and they're placed next to Inscription trainers. Basically, no field-swaps, it has the same logistic issues as respecing.
[e]Curses, foiled again.


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Old 09/24/08, 4:30 PM   #894
Tyvi
Never, Mags. Never!
 
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Human Death Knight
 
Turalyon (EU)
Leatherworking

* Fur Lining - Attack Power - Permanently enchant bracers to increase attack power by 114. Can only be used on the leatherworker's bracers, and doing so will cause them to become soulbound. (Down from 120)
* Fur Lining - Spell Power - Permanently enchant bracers to increase spell power by 67. Can only be used on the leatherworker's bracers, and doing so will cause them to become soulbound. (Down from 70)
Any changes on the Stamina enchant? If it stays at 90, the 3 enchants will be using different item budgets for their respective stat bonuses which would be... odd.

(Enchants and Gems have no diminishing returns on stat bonuses so that is my assumption)

1 stat point is worth 2 AP, 1.2 spell power and 1.5 Stamina (Reference point: [Runed Crimson Spinel] (this should be 12 spell power in WotLK), [Bright Crimson Spinel] and [Solid Empyrean Sapphire]).

90 Stamina = 60 stat points = 120 AP = 72 spell power which isn't too far off from the old values. I expect the Stamina enchant to get nerfed down to 85 Stamina so it's in line with the AP/spell damage atleast.

I still don't get why they had to nerf this, but whatever.

EDIT:
Originally Posted by PSGarak View Post
[e]Curses, foiled again.
Chicken lives for this. :P He probably has 5 browser tabs just for the EJ forums.


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Old 09/24/08, 5:29 PM   #895
Steelfleece
Soda Popinski
 
Steelfleece's Avatar
 
Goblin Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
For those curious, in Engineering, it seems that the tanking gun is being renamed "Armor-Plated Combat Shotgun" while the DPS gun will be the Nesingwary 4000.

This is a small change, but it makes me happy :P

I'm alsot seeing a recipe for a Diamond-cut Refractor Scope - Spell - World of Warcraft ... hmmm...well based on the mats it can't be anything spectacular.

Though the mats don't seem to match up to name at all, either, so it may be a complete placeholder.

Last edited by Steelfleece : 09/24/08 at 5:40 PM.

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Old 09/24/08, 7:55 PM   #896
Cuer
Piston Honda
 
Tauren Druid
 
Earthen Ring
The scope is a new one at level 70:


There are also some new Engineering BoP headpieces (leather, mail and plate versions so far) that give frost resistance:

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Old 09/24/08, 8:04 PM   #897
madman
Von Kaiser
 
Human Rogue
 
Bloodhoof (EU)
Originally Posted by Snowcrasher View Post
Alchemy
- 50% stat bonus + 100% Duration to flasks (Mixology)
--- Flask bonus = 90 AP or 19 MP5 or 325 HP or 62.5 SP
- 25% stat bonus + 100% Duration to elixirs (Mixology)
--- Elixir bonus (Battle) = 22.5 AP or 14.5 SP or 12.5 STR or 11.25 AGI or 5 stats
---- AND
--- Elixir bonus (Guardian) = 4MP5 or 12.5 Res or 12.5 SPI or 200 AC or 87.5 HP + 5 HP5
- BOP Endless Potions (reusable item, usable in Arenas)
--- Restores 1680 to 2160 health, 3 Min Cooldown (Endless Healing Potion)
--- Restores 400 to 600 mana, 3 Min Cooldown (Endless Mana Potion)
--- Restores 1680 to 2160 health and 400 to 600 mana, 3 Min Cooldown (Endless Rejuvenation Potion)
- BOP Trinkets with 40% bonus to potion effectiveness
Speaking as a rogue (although this is valid for other classes as well), alchemy/herbalism will be a less beneficial combo than before for non-healers. Herbalism adds nothing compared to before, while alchemy adds the %bonus. Elixirs seem to be getting only 25%, while flasks get 50%. If elixirs had at least gotten the same multiplier as flasks it would look tempting. But considering how most other professions are getting stat/dps buffs, herb/alch is now obviously more inferior to for example skinning/lw than it was before. I hope Blizzard at least will consider giving elixirs the same 50% as flasks.

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Old 09/24/08, 8:10 PM   #898
Deathmckilly
Piston Honda
 
Deathmcsneak
Human Rogue
 
No WoW Account
Edit: Seeing how I was using incorrect information in this response, I of course retract this post.

Last edited by Deathmckilly : 09/24/08 at 10:13 PM.

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Old 09/24/08, 8:36 PM   #899
Snowcrasher
Custom User Title
 
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Orc Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
The mixology numbers in my post are not correct, they are based off the original reports of mixology being 50% & 25% bonus to flasks and elixirs respectively.

I've heard that testing is showing that the bonuses are different (%) for each flask and elixir and I'm waiting to see definative (& comprehensive) testing results from someone before updating my summary.

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Old 09/24/08, 8:37 PM   #900
Copernicus
Bald Bull
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Tichondrius
Don't make any assumptions about the boost that Mixology would give an Alchemist until it's tested.

When my friend tested it on the beta, here's the results he got-

Flask of Pure Death -- base shadow damage: 1229 -- base flask increase: 80 shadow damage
buffed shadow damage: 1332 -- amount increase: 103
mixology buff: 23 shadow damage, 28.75%

Flask of Relentless Assault -- base AP: 47 -- base flask increase: 120 AP
buffed AP: 207 -- amount increase: 160
mixology buff: 40 AP, 33.33%

Flask of Mighty Restoration -- base mp5: 0 -- base flask increase: 25 mp5
buffed mp5: 38 -- amount increase: 38
mixology buff: 13 mp5, 52%

Flask of Fortification -- base health: 10084, base defense rating: 0 -- base flask increase: 500 health, 10 defense rating
buffed health: 10805 -- amount increase: 721, buffed defense rating: 15 amount increase: 15
mixology buff: 221 health, 44.2% mixology buff: 5 defense rating, 50%

Flask of Distilled Wisdom -- base intellect: 549 -- base flask increase: 65 intellect
buffed int: 634 -- amount increase: 85
mixology buff: 20 int, 30.7%

Adept's Elixir -- base stats: 1175 spell power, 276 crit rating -- base elixir increase: 24 spell power, 24 spell crit rating
buffed stats: 1208 spell power, 308 crit rating -- amount increase: 33 spell power, 32 crit rating
mixology buff: 9 spell power, 37.5%; 8 spell crit rating, 33.3%

------------------------

In terms of stat increases, every flask EXCEPT Mighty Restoration gave 20 stat points of increase. Mighty Restoration gave a number way outside the expected value, so there might be a mistake there.

For Elixirs, it was a 16 stat point increase. But really, every single flask/elixir needs to be tested to confirm how much of a boost it gives.

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