The WotLK profession thread - Page 77

Zifna · 10/16/08, 2:00 PM

Originally Posted by Eph

From my observations, the Minors are limited by the Inscription level of the character. My main has 365 Inscription and got a minor requiring Northrend herbs on her second day, my 4 other alts have Inscription at 75-100 and they have only learned Midnight Ink level minors and between them a couple duplicates on their second days.

While this is true, there are still a number of glyphs at that level that would be fairly lucrative to discover on my server. I imagine the situation on, say, Malganis or Medivh might be different however.

Pharmacon · 10/16/08, 2:18 PM

Originally Posted by LittleHamster

It's not hard to get them if you have a herber. Last weekend, a couple of hours in Arathi Highland yielded me 10 stacks of goldthorn and khadgar's whisker. The zone was completely dead. (I logged off my herb alt to wait for respawns).

Given that the only difficulty in acquiring said herbs is simply supply on the AH. And that if there's a demand for them, farmers (and bots) will farm them to put on the AH. Besides, unlike alchemy, non of the herbs required for milling are rare. (This is not a fel lotus, nightmare vine or anicent lichen supply issue). Outland herbs are only abundant because there was profit to be made in farming them before.

That's the whole point though. You should not be required to farm old world herbs in order to get a glyph that is one of the best you can have at level cap. They made the change to allow BC elementals to drop essences of x and for some of the endgame vanilla enchants to be available and made with BC rep and mats. It's one thing if these glyphs, like the scrolls or enchants, were similar but increased in scale as level increased but that's not the way it is.

Montegomery · 10/16/08, 6:18 PM

Originally Posted by Pharmacon

That's the whole point though. You should not be required to farm old world herbs in order to get a glyph that is one of the best you can have at level cap. They made the change to allow BC elementals to drop essences of x and for some of the endgame vanilla enchants to be available and made with BC rep and mats. It's one thing if these glyphs, like the scrolls or enchants, were similar but increased in scale as level increased but that's not the way it is.

There's a clear difference between Inscription and Enchanting (among other professions), and that is control. With Inscription (and Alchemy as well) it's ridiculously easy to know which zones have the herbs you need and to collect them in appropriate quantities. Unless you're aiming for rare pigments, which are irrelevant to Glyphs anyway, it's a very straightforward and quick activity.

There is no direct way to get materials for Enchanting. You must either A) get an item of an appropriate level to drop B) craft an item of the appropriate level or C) buy an item of the appropriate level off the AH. Following this, one must then disenchant the item and hope that the result is favorable. This is a fun mechanic when getting items of the appropriate level is emergent from your other activities, and a royal pain otherwise.

Another point to note is that Enchanting generally doesn't have the same level of resource competition as some other professions. Given Alchemy's central place in providing consumables for raiding and the obvious competition Inscription might foster, Blizzard has taken careful measures to keep the two as far from at odds as possible. Lexicons of Power severely limit Glyph swapping, keeping them less like consumables and more like enchants. Blizzard's statement that each of the dual-specs will have separate glyphs reinforces this. Additionally, creating a situation where Inscription benefits from old materials spreads the competition out. I don't think any Alchemist or Scribe would relish a Blacksmithing/Jewelcrafting/Engineering-esque competition over resources. Lastly, the fact that any herb on a given level will yield the same pigment keeps farming both old world and new world herbs from being difficult. If one zone/herb is being overfarmed there are always other zones.

I'm perfectly fine with Inscription requiring me to return to the old world. There are some beautiful zones back there, and it's really less of a hassle than trying to gauge whether there's someone else flying around collecting the herbs I need.

Pharmacon · 10/17/08, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by Darian_TruBlade

There's a clear difference between Inscription and Enchanting (among other professions), and that is control. With Inscription (and Alchemy as well) it's ridiculously easy to know which zones have the herbs you need and to collect them in appropriate quantities. Unless you're aiming for rare pigments, which are irrelevant to Glyphs anyway, it's a very straightforward and quick activity.

There is no direct way to get materials for Enchanting. You must either A) get an item of an appropriate level to drop B) craft an item of the appropriate level or C) buy an item of the appropriate level off the AH. Following this, one must then disenchant the item and hope that the result is favorable. This is a fun mechanic when getting items of the appropriate level is emergent from your other activities, and a royal pain otherwise.

Another point to note is that Enchanting generally doesn't have the same level of resource competition as some other professions. Given Alchemy's central place in providing consumables for raiding and the obvious competition Inscription might foster, Blizzard has taken careful measures to keep the two as far from at odds as possible. Lexicons of Power severely limit Glyph swapping, keeping them less like consumables and more like enchants. Blizzard's statement that each of the dual-specs will have separate glyphs reinforces this. Additionally, creating a situation where Inscription benefits from old materials spreads the competition out. I don't think any Alchemist or Scribe would relish a Blacksmithing/Jewelcrafting/Engineering-esque competition over resources. Lastly, the fact that any herb on a given level will yield the same pigment keeps farming both old world and new world herbs from being difficult. If one zone/herb is being overfarmed there are always other zones.

I'm perfectly fine with Inscription requiring me to return to the old world. There are some beautiful zones back there, and it's really less of a hassle than trying to gauge whether there's someone else flying around collecting the herbs I need.

Your enchanting point makes no sense to me. You only use old world mats when leveling it. Same with alchemy, leather working, blacksmithing, engineering, and jewelcrafting...oh wait, all of the professions except inscription.

Blizzard making glyphs more enchanting-esque and less consumable makes the ability to use the higher level mats to make lower level glyphs even more pertinent as the demand won't be as high for glyphs and therefore the herb demand won't be as high leading to escalated prices on harder to access mats. The majority of gatherers are lazy and will gather where nodes are plentiful and easy to access, as in Azeroth where you can't fly and need to hearth or get a summon to do something else.

Just because you are ok with going back to farm Azeroth for herbs doesn't mean everyone has access to an herbalist or that it's in the best interest of the profession.

Dangasaur · 10/17/08, 12:10 PM

I just wanted to throw my 2c in about herbalism. I've made over 1k gold in the past 2 days on a level 42 druid farming herbs. I've been specifically farming Wild Steelbloom, Bruiseweed, and Goldthorn. All other herbs seem to sell well on the AH, but these 3 stand out as the best price per herb.

Today the prices have shifted from what I would consider the "mid level" herbs to "high old-world" herbs like Dreamfoil, Mountain Silversage, and Sungrass. At my level these are out of reach.

I've made the decision to start banking all my farms now since the prices have dropped from 3g per herb to about 1g per herb. I'm betting that after the current deflation the farmers will slowly go back to doing whatever they were previously doing and I can return to the market with a profit that is acceptable for my time spent. In my opinion the high level farmers will return to other means of income vs. farming old-world herbs since the time/gold will decay to a point where even mob farming is more profitable. I do have the worry that once the playerbase is saturated with glyphs that the glyph market will disappear over night and leave inscriptors with unstable income which then affects me as the supplier of raw materials.

-also-

Since, low level herbs sold so well over the past few days, I'm thinking that this will inflate the prices of low level greens since lowbies and alts will have a means to make significant gold for their level. I've got a few twink weapons and low level blues that I will list soon.

-last point-

I think adding a new profession will reduce the number of both suppliers and crafters in other professions. It will be interesting to see what happens to old world ore, leather, and enchanting mat prices before and during expansion.

Montegomery · 10/17/08, 2:29 PM

Originally Posted by Pharmacon

Your enchanting point makes no sense to me. You only use old world mats when leveling it. Same with alchemy, leather working, blacksmithing, engineering, and jewelcrafting...oh wait, all of the professions except inscription.

Blizzard making glyphs more enchanting-esque and less consumable makes the ability to use the higher level mats to make lower level glyphs even more pertinent as the demand won't be as high for glyphs and therefore the herb demand won't be as high leading to escalated prices on harder to access mats. The majority of gatherers are lazy and will gather where nodes are plentiful and easy to access, as in Azeroth where you can't fly and need to hearth or get a summon to do something else.

Just because you are ok with going back to farm Azeroth for herbs doesn't mean everyone has access to an herbalist or that it's in the best interest of the profession.

The Zul'Gurub oils were superior to the BC oils for many casters, save that their mat requirements were old world and most costly. Similarly, the materials for the Elixir of Demonslaying were all old world. This obviously isn't ubiquitous, but the point remains.

Your second argument has a clear, fundamental flaw; there are no hard to access mats for Inscription (relating to glyphs). If, say, Golden Samsam is too expensive, difficult to acquire or otherwise useful you have four other herbs which will mill to exactly the same materials. The prices of currently expensive herbs, old or new world, won't go up due to Inscription because no sane Scribe will buy the expensive herbs over the inexpensive, otherwise useless ones.

Similarly, Inscription increases demand by a very small margin. The vast majority of glyphs can be created using the materials from one milling, with the rest requiring at most two. For this you gain something with longevity equal to or greater than enchants. Demand is spiking now because 10 million players need glyphs, but it won't be long before the profession settles into gentle lethargy.

Lastly, the only old world herbs I have ever seen as being more costly than new world herbs are Ghost Mushrooms and Black Lotus, neither of which are at all necessary for Scribes. Everything else is either equal to or less expensive than the new world herbs. As a result, any of the optimal glyphs that require old world mats will be cheaper than they otherwise would be. Wanting everything to function off of new world herbs only makes it harder on Scribes and glyph-seekers without herbalism, not easier.

I concede that there is currently no strong precedent for having a profession that requires returning to the old world for materials, but that doesn't mean in and of itself that this is bad design or contrary to Blizzard's intent. It would certainly be more convenient if Barbers, Lexicons, and Auction Houses were present in Outland, but Blizzard wants there to be reasons to return to Azeroth. Inscription may well be another of those reasons.

Cuer · 10/17/08, 6:58 PM

Some small profession changes in the new 3.0.3 9056 patch:

Enchanting
Enchant Bracers - Greater Assault now enchant bracers to increase attack power by 50. (Up from 38)
Enchant Weapon - Massacre now only works on 2-handed weapons.

Relatively speaking, this slightly reduces the power of Leatherworking, since their crafter-only bracer enchant is now less of a boost, compared to the one that everybody can get.

Jagiya · 10/19/08, 9:24 PM

Just thought I might add that the [Glyph of Blurred Speed] allows you to travel on water whilst mounted as long as sprint is active. Very cool.

glowacks · 10/20/08, 2:56 PM

Originally Posted by Darian_TruBlade

Demand is spiking now because 10 million players need glyphs, but it won't be long before the profession settles into gentle lethargy.

At least on the server my scribe is on, prices have plummeted over the last week; the only ones remaining about 20g are minor glyphs while some people were trying to get that much for major glyphs the night of the patch into the next day or two. In another week when there are even more Minor Glyphs learned and the peopel who will shell out for them already have them, I expect the price on those to plummet as well. Right now Majors are goign for far less than the herbs needed to make them due to glut from leveling, so it's quite possible that the prices will rebound except for the fact that herb prices are likely to fall as well once everyone who wants to level inscription has done so.

Andread · 10/20/08, 4:27 PM

I'm concerned about the earning potential of inscription once things settle down after the expansion. The problem is replacement; once a max level toon has the glyphs they want for their two specs they'll have no reason to purchase more glyphs. Enchanting (and leatherworking) needs replacement when new gear is obtained, for example. Only respeccing makes a glyph need replacement and the dual spec feature will stop that from happening very often.

Perhaps Blizzard intends for scrolls and vellums to be the major source of income for the profession?

Copernicus · 10/20/08, 5:13 PM

Originally Posted by Andread

I'm concerned about the earning potential of inscription once things settle down after the expansion. The problem is replacement; once a max level toon has the glyphs they want for their two specs they'll have no reason to purchase more glyphs. Enchanting (and leatherworking) needs replacement when new gear is obtained, for example. Only respeccing makes a glyph need replacement and the dual spec feature will stop that from happening very often.

Perhaps Blizzard intends for scrolls and vellums to be the major source of income for the profession?

Darkmoon Card of the North - Spell - World of Warcraft

Northrend Inscription Research - Spell - World of Warcraft

Some minor other news, from Darkmoon Card crafting, the Nobles card has been made - WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Darkmoon Deck Discovery

You're able to choose between 4 versions of the trinket that have either 90 str, 90 agi, 90 int, or 90 spr and they all share a proc that increases whichever of those 4 stats that you have most of by an additional 300. So for instance if you were a tank that took the agi one for dodge but have much higher str than agi, your proc would be 300 str. It could potentially cause a lot of headaches for classes that have two stats at similar levels but the higher one changes once raid buffed. The proc rate appears to be 100% with a 45 sec internal gcd giving it a 33% uptime or in other words ~190+ of the stat over time.

Douglas · 10/20/08, 6:00 PM

Originally Posted by Andread

Perhaps Blizzard intends for scrolls and vellums to be the major source of income for the profession?

Those, yeah, plus maybe fun "vanity"-type items.

Scribes can make a scroll that allows hunters to rename pets they've already named. It wouldn't shock me if more items along those lines were to appear over time. Maybe some "stationary" that let you send in-game mail with different borders around your text, for example? Or consumable scrolls to mimic holiday things, like a love poem that made the taming heart animation appear over your head? Many folks would buy 'em.

urotas · 10/20/08, 8:01 PM

Originally Posted by Andread

I'm concerned about the earning potential of inscription once things settle down after the expansion. The problem is replacement; once a max level toon has the glyphs they want for their two specs they'll have no reason to purchase more glyphs. Enchanting (and leatherworking) needs replacement when new gear is obtained, for example. Only respeccing makes a glyph need replacement and the dual spec feature will stop that from happening very often.

Perhaps Blizzard intends for scrolls and vellums to be the major source of income for the profession?

Scrolls of agility and strength no longer stack with strength of earth or horn of winter, so none of the scrolls are useful in a well balanced raid. I could see some people using scrolls in 5-mans or while soloing, but I doubt that makes a very big market.

Addled · 10/20/08, 9:02 PM

Originally Posted by urotas

Scrolls of agility and strength no longer stack with strength of earth or horn of winter, so none of the scrolls are useful in a well balanced raid. I could see some people using scrolls in 5-mans or while soloing, but I doubt that makes a very big market.

I expect that Blizzard is aiming them at 10man raiders. In a 25man, it's easy to squeeze all the important raid buffs in and go from there, but it's difficult (though entirely possible) to squeeze all the important raid buffs in a 10man group. Even more so if the 10man group is not min-maxing and just grabbing their friends for a fun run.

phasedweasel · 10/20/08, 10:58 PM

The only thing that really turns a profit are recipes that are restricted some how (rare random drop, raid drop, % discovery chance, high faction reward, etc) or trade skills with a cooldown. Those become the meat and potatoes of any crafter's income. Over time anything else, no matter how desirable, floats down to about the price of mats, or often even less.