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Old 11/07/08, 6:50 PM   #1291
Brio
Von Kaiser
 
Human Death Knight
 
Frostwolf
No, it's not footloop, and that is where Blizzard has seemed to thrown us off. Any profession should make people question whether or not they should take it over another (besides something like tailoring for a warrior or other combos that don't make sense).

I always thought it would be good to have one slot that would be dedicated to having a raid dropped recipe that would have a slightly higher ilevel. For instance, a tailor might get a crafted backpiece that is better than any backpiece in that raiding tier, a blacksmith might get to make bracers, etc. Then they could have an added item drop for the end boss that gives these recipes. It looked like Blizzard was planning on doing something like this, but I guess not. Time will tell though. They've already basically said T7 is a joke. I think we'll see Blizzard's real plans in T8.

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Old 11/07/08, 7:02 PM   #1292
Mideci
Great Tiger
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Stormrage
The point is, you don't need tailoring on your alt any more than you need enchanting on your alt. You can get the stuff tailored from anyone. You might as well take whatever two professions seem fun to you, since they all provide more or less comparable stats bonuses.

The notion that it would be gamebreaking for you to have 2-3 slots of craftable BoP gear that you could upgrade over time that are profession specific is just flat out wrong. Blizzard seems incapable of grasping the difference between making Stormherald and Frozen Shadoweave less good and simply taking the relevance of professions out of the game completely. They have chosen the latter, for whatever reason.

Their "logic" here is that Stormherald or Fireguard/Blazeguard forced everyone to be a blacksmith. If those weapons were a bit less good and the isntances actually dropped enough weapons (SSC, ahem), people wouldn't have >>needed<< to be blacksmiths, but they could have chosen to. And FSW, was simple to fix. Make it solid, limit it to three slots (as it was) and allow it to be upgraded over time (like the engineering helms). As we all know, it was just too good at the beginning such that people were wearing it into Black Temple.

If leatherworking, blacksmithing, tailoring, jewelcrafting, engineering, all had those 2-3 excellent slots, someone needs to enlighten me on how this would "force" anyone to do anything.. It simply wouldn't. People could choose. Or they could -- in fact -- opt out, since none of the gear would be irreplaceable by gear in the relevant raid tier. The craftables would be more or less tier 7 quality at first, just available without waiting out the drop. To get them to tier 8 level wouldn't be possibly pre-Ulduar. Etc. etc. The opt-out crowd would wait a tad longer to get into the raid zone and get their drops.

As it stands now, virtually everything is an alt profession unless you are really a min-maxer who is essentially hair splitter over which effectively non-differentiated stat bonus is slightly better for you. That makes all professions essentially the same and -- well -- fits with the model of non-differentiated classes. And it isn't really a good thing.

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Old 11/07/08, 7:43 PM   #1293
Dotswtfownd
Banned
 
Night Elf Shaman
 
Auchindoun
Originally Posted by Kukulkan View Post
Maybe someone that was in beta could answer the following,

I thought that JWC got extra stat colorless gems, that you could only use 3 of them in any part of the set. But checking armories (idk if they are bugged), i see 4 JWC gems being used (2x12crit and 2x14spellpower The World of Warcraft Armory ), so my question is does JWC get 3 of each special gems at 80?
Yes, they do. BoP JC gems will proc any Meta gem as well as give any socket bonuses in an item. Depending on what Meta-gem you use, its a pretty big boost. Even better, one only has to be at 375 to cut them.

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Old 11/09/08, 8:47 AM   #1294
songster
Chief Passenger
 
Gnome Rogue
 
Earthen Ring (EU)
Originally Posted by Mideci View Post
As it stands now, virtually everything is an alt profession
Er, no. Everything is a main profession. Someone who levels up professions will be strictly worse than someone who doesn't, regardless of what they are. That means you want two professions on your main, and probably crafting professions rather than gathering professions.

And it isn't really a good thing.
It's a very good thing indeed. As you said, "You might as well take whatever two professions seem fun to you, since they all provide more or less comparable stats bonuses". What precisely is wrong with doing what you personally find fun? As far as I can make out, you're saying that you like being forced to choose professions you don't like doing. That's an... interesting... attitude. Kudos to you for inventing the oddest variant of Russell's paradox I've yet encountered, though.

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Old 11/09/08, 11:34 AM   #1295
Lambach
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Druid
 
Cenarion Circle
I believe the problem is that gemcrafting and enchanting are still far ahead of the rest. So you dont really get to choose which you want. For raiding, gemcrafting and enchanting(and leatherworking/blacksmithing?) provide significant stat boosts that the others dont .

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Old 11/09/08, 1:31 PM   #1296
Rivkah
Great Tiger
 
Dwarf Hunter
 
Stormrage
Originally Posted by Lambach View Post
I believe the problem is that gemcrafting and enchanting are still far ahead of the rest. So you dont really get to choose which you want. For raiding, gemcrafting and enchanting(and leatherworking/blacksmithing?) provide significant stat boosts that the others dont .
I'm not sure why you think enchanting is ahead. JC and BS are the two which give a choice of stats which allows them to come out ahead even though the strict itemization value benefit is the same (LW is ahead for tanks as well due to the stam fur lining). The ring enchants are for AP, spellpower and stam. The numbers on them are the same as what you get from inscription and LW for AP and spellpower, and the stam benefit is weaker than what you get from LW- you would get the same itemization value in dodge from inscription.

The profession benefit breakdown to me looks like this:

Strong benefit: JC, BS, LW (tanks only)
Medium benefit: LW (non-tanks), Inscription (note dodge instead of stam for tanks), Enchanting, Mining (tanks only)
Weak benefit: Tailoring, Engineering, Alchemy (on par with the medium benefits for AP/spellpower but only in effect when flask/elixir applied, especially weak for tanks), Skinning, Herbalism

Note that of the gathering professions, mining is still good enough to be on par with the medium benefit professions for tanks, skinning is weak but provides some dps benefit (arguably more than tailoring or engineering), and herbalism is pretty much useless compared to the others, although the heal can be handy. Gathering professions should be weak though, as they provide a lot of monetary gain, I sure hope Blizz isn't leaving engineering weak because they think of it as a gathering profession.

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Old 11/10/08, 6:32 AM   #1297
Ingmar
Piston Honda
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by Rivkah View Post
I'm not sure why you think enchanting is ahead. JC and BS are the two which give a choice of stats which allows them to come out ahead even though the strict itemization value benefit is the same (LW is ahead for tanks as well due to the stam fur lining). The ring enchants are for AP, spellpower and stam. The numbers on them are the same as what you get from inscription and LW for AP and spellpower, and the stam benefit is weaker than what you get from LW- you would get the same itemization value in dodge from inscription.

The profession benefit breakdown to me looks like this:

Strong benefit: JC, BS, LW (tanks only)
Medium benefit: LW (non-tanks), Inscription (note dodge instead of stam for tanks), Enchanting, Mining (tanks only)
Weak benefit: Tailoring, Engineering, Alchemy (on par with the medium benefits for AP/spellpower but only in effect when flask/elixir applied, especially weak for tanks), Skinning, Herbalism

Note that of the gathering professions, mining is still good enough to be on par with the medium benefit professions for tanks, skinning is weak but provides some dps benefit (arguably more than tailoring or engineering), and herbalism is pretty much useless compared to the others, although the heal can be handy. Gathering professions should be weak though, as they provide a lot of monetary gain, I sure hope Blizz isn't leaving engineering weak because they think of it as a gathering profession.
Well, if it's about monetary gain, obviously JC should provide a very weak bonus to a character, as this is one of the most (lasting) profitable professions out there, since everyone needs gems over and over again (even if you're not PvE'ing, as with Alchemy).

About engineering: I don't think this should be a gathering profession, but if it was considered one, it should provide some kind of static stat bonus or provide an ability like every other gathering profession. Personally I'm hoping for some kind of belt enchant (not just for personal use) which engineers could provide, or at least some recipe drops further in PvE progression for a new helm version and perhaps a better scope recipe (maybe BOP scopes?).


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Old 11/10/08, 8:09 AM   #1298
KraxisSingular
Banned
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Runetotem (EU)
BoP scopes as a profession perk is... well nice for me as I'm a Hunter, but it would be a rather pointless perk for everyone else. For Hunters Engineering is right now decidedly poor. We are GCD limited, so the rocket enchant is bad, we are quite limited in how much Haste we can use (and one spec really doesn't want Haste at all), so the Haste enchant is rather poor too. The trinkets pretty much suck for Hunters (procs from melee combat meh). And finally the goggles are clearly inferior to T7.10. To say nothing of the better itemized helemts that drop.
Even with a BoP scope I don't think Engineering could make up for that weakness. It would have to be decidedly overpowered.

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Old 11/10/08, 12:53 PM   #1299
Duilliath
Great Tiger
 
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Duilliath
Night Elf Druid
 
No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Ingmar View Post
About engineering: I don't think this should be a gathering profession [...]
I think Blizzard decided it's partway a gathering and a crafting one. The Zapthrottle Mote Extractor will work just fine in WotLK.

Combine that with this post and one can see where they're coming from.

Being a LW/Engineer myself I'd hope for something more impressive than we have now, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Ignorance can be solved with a book. Stupidity requires a shotgun and a shovel.

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Old 11/11/08, 1:26 AM   #1300
Socialcrab
Glass Joe
 
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Human Priest
 
Gorgonnash
I would consider Engineering to be more of a casual profession, not meant for raiding but instead for making "cool" items which one can amuse them self with. The Mote Extractor is nice though, I hope the goggles are upgradable.

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Old 11/11/08, 8:29 AM   #1301
Douglas
Don Flamenco
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Earthen Ring
Originally Posted by Socialcrab View Post
The Mote Extractor is nice though, I hope the goggles are upgradable.
Don't worry so much about the goggles. The unique functionality of the goggles -- the "use to zoom in" and the "track motes on the map" stuff -- is available to engineers as a belt enchant. So engineers can upgrade to more powerful hats without giving up that stuff. (The idea is that you keep a bunch of equipment, including a pair of binocs, strapped to your "utility belt".)

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Old 11/11/08, 8:36 AM   #1302
Blashnar
Glass Joe
 
Orc Warrior
 
Laughing Skull
Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
Don't worry so much about the goggles. The unique functionality of the goggles -- the "use to zoom in" and the "track motes on the map" stuff -- is available to engineers as a belt enchant. So engineers can upgrade to more powerful hats without giving up that stuff. (The idea is that you keep a bunch of equipment, including a pair of binocs, strapped to your "utility belt".)
Does anyone know if that engineering belt enchant can be applied along with the socket added by blacksmithing?

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Old 11/11/08, 8:58 AM   #1303
dill
Glass Joe
 
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Амок
Undead Warlock
 
Non-US/EU Server (EU)
One can safely assume that blacksmith's socket is separate, additional enchant to belt. So it can be applied along engineering enchant.

By the way, what is Hand Mounted Pyro Rocket range ?

Yet i don't know what path to choose in engineering, previously i liked Gnomish Engineering more, but now all those Goblin Explosives in Lake Wintergrasp look a little bit cooler.

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Old 11/11/08, 9:47 AM   #1304
Ingmar
Piston Honda
 
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Dwarf Hunter
 
Grim Batol (EU)
Originally Posted by dill View Post
One can safely assume that blacksmith's socket is separate, additional enchant to belt. So it can be applied along engineering enchant.

By the way, what is Hand Mounted Pyro Rocket range ?

Yet i don't know what path to choose in engineering, previously i liked Gnomish Engineering more, but now all those Goblin Explosives in Lake Wintergrasp look a little bit cooler.
According to thottbot the range is 45 yards.

On a more general note: I found it strange that the tracking wasn't given as a baseline ability when creating the mote extractor, I guess the belt enchant is a nice fix for it, but they could just allow us to buy a book somewhere or get it from a quest rather than this (new belt? Go and get the skill again or carry a "junk" item around like you do now with the engineering head if you got ~T5/6ish gear).


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Old 11/11/08, 9:56 AM   #1305
gia
 
Blood Elf Priest
 
Genjuros (EU)
Making the cloud detection an ability would limit us from being able to track something else and finding clouds at the same time, I'm starting the expansion with mining/engineering just for that reason.

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