Elitist Jerks Combat Ratings at level 85 (Cataclysm)

 09/18/08, 4:59 PM #181 Kavan Bald Bull   Kavan Gnome Mage   Kilrogg It looks like the spirit regen formula changed. At level 80 with 687 int and 475 spi I should get 443 mp5 according to numbers in the first post. In current beta build this only gives 347 mp5. If the form is the same then coefficient changed to 0.005575. Last edited by Kavan : 09/18/08 at 5:17 PM.
09/18/08, 11:35 PM   #182
Whitetooth
Piston Honda

Orc Warlock

Ner'zhul
 Originally Posted by Kavan It looks like the spirit regen formula changed. At level 80 with 687 int and 475 spi I should get 443 mp5 according to numbers in the first post. In current beta build this only gives 347 mp5. If the form is the same then coefficient changed to 0.005575.
You are right, these are the changes I found in build 8962, first post and RatingBuster also updated:

1. Mana regen from Spirit nerfed at level 71 to 80, at level 80 the amount of regen is nerfed to about 78% of the original value.
2. Players lower then level 34 will now convert resilience ratings at the same rate as level 34 players.

 Level BASE_REGEN@8962 BASE_REGEN@8926 71 0.008859 0.009079 72 0.008415 0.008838 73 0.007993 0.008603 74 0.007592 0.008375 75 0.007211 0.008152 76 0.006849 0.007936 77 0.006506 0.007725 78 0.006179 0.00752 79 0.005869 0.00732 80 0.005575 0.007125

Last edited by Whitetooth : 09/18/08 at 11:51 PM.

Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US <Bahamut>
Author of RatingBuster

09/19/08, 4:57 PM   #183
Modal
Glass Joe

Windrunner
WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Avoidance change

 We just restarted the servers to fix an issue with the diminishing returns formula we added for Dodge, Parry, and the enemy's chance to miss you. The issue fixed was that the formula now works! This will have a definite effect on all tanks ability to mitigate damage due to effectively lowered amounts of those avoidance values.
Confirmation of diminishing returns for dodge, parry, and even miss chance from defense. It sounds to me like the formula may have changed since our earlier tests. I've been trying to level to 80 before gathering more data but it's slow going.

 09/20/08, 2:08 PM #184 sp00n Bald Bull   Surprise Night Elf Rogue   Wrathbringer (EU) Yeah, that was something I was going to ask about as well, the changed dodge formula. I noted down my chance to dodge both on live, in build 8926 and now in 8970. Live: 639 agility, 32.36% dodge (according to the character sheet) 8926: 627 agility, 31.00% dodge (missing Vitality for 2% increased agility) 8970: 627 agility, 27.78% dodge (again, missing 2% agility due to talents / talent changes) I don't remember if the racial 1% dodge bonus was already changed into 2% miss in build 8926, but in 8970 it's in according to the spell book. That means a decrease of about 2% dodge with 627 agility. Stopped Playing
09/20/08, 11:14 PM   #185
Cuer
Piston Honda

Tauren Druid

Earthen Ring
A comment from Daelo:
 Everything on the server as it relates to combat ratings, critical hits, avoidance diminishing returns, etc. should now be working properly. I'm looking forward to feedback from the community about the changes, and especially any hard data from combat logs. I'll try to help with information as possible but we're very busy right now. Compressing all the information from various code and data sources into a coherent, readable post takes time that I and others need to spend on other things right now. I also have faith in the community's ability to construct an accurate model of it from empirical data.
Time for more data!

09/21/08, 6:16 AM   #186
Whitetooth
Piston Honda

Orc Warlock

Ner'zhul
I did a thorough test on defense with my level 60 warrior in build 8970, the data was made possible because I my warrior happens to have over 100 level 60 epics, the data took hours to get, mix matching gear with no agi, no parry, no dodge and only defense.

Hopefuly we can get something out of this.

Build: 8970
Name: Whitetooth (60 Warrior)
Base Defense: 300
Base Agi: 83
Command: /print select(1, UnitDefense("player"))+select(2, UnitDefense("player")).." "..GetDodgeChance().." "..GetParryChance().." "..GetCombatRating(CR_DODGE).." "..GetCombatRating(CR_PARRY).." "..select(1, UnitStat("player", 2))

 Defense Dodge% Parry% 300 7.0076994895935 5 303 7.1330442428589 5.1251888275146 304 7.1747460365295 5.1667699813843 305 7.2164087295532 5.2082781791687 306 7.2580323219299 5.2497124671936 307 7.2996163368225 5.2910733222961 308 7.341160774231 5.3323612213135 309 7.3826661109924 5.3735761642456 310 7.4241323471069 5.4147186279297 311 7.4655590057373 5.4557881355286 312 7.5069470405579 5.4967856407166 313 7.5482954978943 5.5377106666565 314 7.5896062850952 5.5785636901855 315 7.6308765411377 5.6193451881409 316 7.6721086502075 5.6600551605225 317 7.7133016586304 5.7006936073303 318 7.7544560432434 5.7412610054016 319 7.7955713272095 5.7817568778992 320 7.83664894104 5.8221826553345 321 7.8776865005493 5.8625373840332 322 7.9186863899231 5.9028215408325 323 7.9596476554871 5.9430356025696 324 8.0005702972412 5.9831795692444 325 8.0414552688599 6.0232534408569 326 8.0823011398315 6.0632576942444 327 8.1231088638306 6.1031923294067 328 8.1638784408569 6.1430578231812 329 8.2046098709106 6.1828536987305 330 8.2453031539917 6.222580909729 331 8.2859573364258 6.2622399330139 332 8.3265752792358 6.3018293380737 333 8.3671541213989 6.3413500785828 334 8.4076957702637 6.3808031082153 335 8.4481983184814 6.4201874732971 336 8.4886636734009 6.4595050811768 337 8.529091835022 6.4987540245056 338 8.5694818496704 6.537935256958 339 8.6098346710205 6.5770492553711 340 8.6501493453979 6.6160960197449 341 8.6904268264771 6.6550760269165 342 8.7306661605835 6.6939888000488 343 8.7708683013916 6.732834815979 344 8.8110332489014 6.7716150283813 345 8.8511610031128 6.8103275299072 346 8.8912506103516 6.8489751815796 347 8.9313049316406 6.8875560760498 348 8.9713201522827 6.926070690155 349 9.0112991333008 6.9645204544067 350 9.0512399673462 7.0029044151306 351 9.0911455154419 7.0412225723267 352 9.1310129165649 7.0794763565063 353 9.170844078064 7.117663860321 354 9.2106370925903 7.1557869911194 355 9.2503938674927 7.1938462257385 356 9.290114402771 7.2318406105042 357 9.329797744751 7.2697696685791 358 9.3694448471069 7.3076357841492 359 9.4090547561646 7.3454370498657 360 9.4486284255981 7.3831744194031 361 9.4881658554077 7.4208488464355 362 9.5276670455933 7.4584589004517 363 9.5671310424805 7.4960060119629 364 9.6065587997437 7.5334897041321 365 9.6459503173828 7.5709104537964 366 9.6853055953979 7.6082677841187 367 9.7246246337891 7.6455631256104 368 9.7639083862305 7.68279504776 369 9.8031549453735 7.7199654579163 370 9.8423662185669 7.7570719718933 371 9.8815402984619 7.7941179275513 372 9.9206790924072 7.8311009407043 373 9.9597816467285 7.868022441864 374 9.9988489151001 7.9048829078674 375 10.037879943848 7.9416809082031 376 10.076875686646 7.9784183502197 377 10.115835189819 8.0150938034058 378 10.154759407043 8.0517091751099 379 10.193647384644 8.0882635116577 380 10.232500076294 8.124755859375 381 10.271317481995 8.1611890792847 382 10.310099601746 8.1975612640381 383 10.348846435547 8.2338724136353 384 10.387557029724 8.2701234817505 385 10.426232337952 8.3063154220581 386 10.464872360229 8.3424472808838 387 10.503478050232 8.3785200119019 388 10.54204750061 8.414532661438 389 10.580582618713 8.4504852294922 390 10.619082450867 8.4863786697388 391 10.65754699707 8.5222139358521 392 10.695977210999 8.5579891204834 393 10.734372138977 8.5937070846558 394 10.772731781006 8.6293649673462 395 10.811056137085 8.664963722229 396 10.849347114563 8.7005052566528 397 10.887601852417 8.7359886169434 398 10.925822257996 8.7714138031006 399 10.964009284973 8.8067808151245 400 11.002161026001 8.8420896530151 401 11.040277481079 8.8773412704468 402 11.078359603882 8.9125356674194 403 11.116407394409 8.9476728439331 404 11.154421806335 8.9827518463135 405 11.192399978638 9.0177736282349 406 11.230344772339 9.0527391433716 407 11.268255233765 9.0876474380493 408 11.306131362915 9.1224994659424 409 11.343974113464 9.1572952270508 410 11.381781578064 9.1920328140259 411 11.419555664063 9.2267160415649 412 11.457295417786 9.261342048645 413 11.495000839233 9.2959117889404 414 11.53267288208 9.3304271697998 415 11.570310592651 9.3648853302002 416 11.607913970947 9.3992891311646 417 11.645483970642 9.4336357116699 418 11.683020591736 9.4679279327393 419 11.720522880554 9.5021648406982 420 11.757991790771 9.5363473892212 421 11.795427322388 9.5704746246338 422 11.832829475403 9.6045475006104

Last edited by Whitetooth : 09/22/08 at 3:37 PM.

Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US <Bahamut>
Author of RatingBuster

09/21/08, 6:58 AM   #187
sp00n
Bald Bull

Night Elf Rogue

Wrathbringer (EU)
 Defense Dodge% Difference Change 300 7.0076994895935 303 7.1330442428589 304 7.1747460365295 0.0417017936706 305 7.2164087295532 0.0416626930237 -0.0000391006469 306 7.2580323219299 0.0416235923767 -0.0000391006470 307 7.2996163368225 0.0415840148926 -0.0000395774841 308 7.3411607742310 0.0415444374085 -0.0000395774841 309 7.3826661109924 0.0415053367614 -0.0000391006471 310 7.4241323471069 0.0414662361145 -0.0000391006469 311 7.4655590057373 0.0414266586304 -0.0000395774841 312 7.5069470405579 0.0413880348206 -0.0000386238098 313 7.5482954978943 0.0413484573364 -0.0000395774842 314 7.5896062850952 0.0413107872009 -0.0000376701355 315 7.6308765411377 0.0412702560425 -0.0000405311584 316 7.6721086502075 0.0412321090698 -0.0000381469727 317 7.7133016586304 0.0411930084229 -0.0000391006469 318 7.7544560432434 0.0411543846130 -0.0000386238099 319 7.7955713272095 0.0411152839661 -0.0000391006469 320 7.8366489410400 0.0410776138305 -0.0000376701356 321 7.8776865005493 0.0410375595093 -0.0000400543212 322 7.9186863899231 0.0409998893738 -0.0000376701355 323 7.9596476554871 0.0409612655640 -0.0000386238098 324 8.0005702972412 0.0409226417541 -0.0000386238099 325 8.0414552688599 0.0408849716187 -0.0000376701354 326 8.0823011398315 0.0408458709716 -0.0000391006471 327 8.1231088638306 0.0408077239991 -0.0000381469725 328 8.1638784408569 0.0407695770263 -0.0000381469728 329 8.2046098709106 0.0407314300537 -0.0000381469726 330 8.2453031539917 0.0406932830811 -0.0000381469726 331 8.2859573364258 0.0406541824341 -0.0000391006470 332 8.3265752792358 0.0406179428100 -0.0000362396241 333 8.3671541213989 0.0405788421631 -0.0000391006469 334 8.4076957702637 0.0405416488648 -0.0000371932983 335 8.4481983184814 0.0405025482177 -0.0000391006471 336 8.4886636734009 0.0404653549195 -0.0000371932982 337 8.5290918350220 0.0404281616211 -0.0000371932984 338 8.5694818496704 0.0403900146484 -0.0000381469727 339 8.6098346710205 0.0403528213501 -0.0000371932983 340 8.6501493453979 0.0403146743774 -0.0000381469727 341 8.6904268264771 0.0402774810792 -0.0000371932982 342 8.7306661605835 0.0402393341064 -0.0000381469728 343 8.7708683013916 0.0402021408081 -0.0000371932983 344 8.8110332489014 0.0401649475098 -0.0000371932983 345 8.8511610031128 0.0401277542114 -0.0000371932984 346 8.8912506103516 0.0400896072388 -0.0000381469726 347 8.9313049316406 0.0400543212890 -0.0000352859498 348 8.9713201522827 0.0400152206421 -0.0000391006469 349 9.0112991333008 0.0399789810181 -0.0000362396240 350 9.0512399673462 0.0399408340454 -0.0000381469727 351 9.0911455154419 0.0399055480957 -0.0000352859497 352 9.1310129165649 0.0398674011230 -0.0000381469727 353 9.1708440780640 0.0398311614991 -0.0000362396239 354 9.2106370925903 0.0397930145263 -0.0000381469728 355 9.2503938674927 0.0397567749024 -0.0000362396239 356 9.2901144027710 0.0397205352783 -0.0000362396241 357 9.3297977447510 0.0396833419800 -0.0000371932983 358 9.3694448471069 0.0396471023559 -0.0000362396241 359 9.4090547561646 0.0396099090577 -0.0000371932982 360 9.4486284255981 0.0395736694335 -0.0000362396242 361 9.4881658554077 0.0395374298096 -0.0000362396239 362 9.5276670455933 0.0395011901856 -0.0000362396240 363 9.5671310424805 0.0394639968872 -0.0000371932984 364 9.6065587997437 0.0394277572632 -0.0000362396240 365 9.6459503173828 0.0393915176391 -0.0000362396241 366 9.6853055953979 0.0393552780151 -0.0000362396240 367 9.7246246337891 0.0393190383912 -0.0000362396239 368 9.7639083862305 0.0392837524414 -0.0000352859498 369 9.8031549453735 0.0392465591430 -0.0000371932984 370 9.8423662185669 0.0392112731934 -0.0000352859496 371 9.8815402984619 0.0391740798950 -0.0000371932984 372 9.9206790924072 0.0391387939453 -0.0000352859497 373 9.9597816467285 0.0391025543213 -0.0000362396240 374 9.9988489151001 0.0390672683716 -0.0000352859497 375 10.0378799438480 0.0390310287479 -0.0000362396237 376 10.0768756866460 0.0389957427980 -0.0000352859499 377 10.1158351898190 0.0389595031730 -0.0000362396250 378 10.1547594070430 0.0389242172240 -0.0000352859490 379 10.1936473846440 0.0388879776010 -0.0000362396230 380 10.2325000762940 0.0388526916500 -0.0000352859510 381 10.2713174819950 0.0388174057010 -0.0000352859490 382 10.3100996017460 0.0387821197510 -0.0000352859500 383 10.3488464355470 0.0387468338010 -0.0000352859500 384 10.3875570297240 0.0387105941770 -0.0000362396240 385 10.4262323379520 0.0386753082280 -0.0000352859490 386 10.4648723602290 0.0386400222770 -0.0000352859510 387 10.5034780502320 0.0386056900030 -0.0000343322740 388 10.5420475006100 0.0385694503780 -0.0000362396250 389 10.5805826187130 0.0385351181030 -0.0000343322750 390 10.6190824508670 0.0384998321540 -0.0000352859490 391 10.6575469970700 0.0384645462030 -0.0000352859510 392 10.6959772109990 0.0384302139290 -0.0000343322740 393 10.7343721389770 0.0383949279780 -0.0000352859510 394 10.7727317810060 0.0383596420290 -0.0000352859490 395 10.8110561370850 0.0383243560790 -0.0000352859500 396 10.8493471145630 0.0382909774780 -0.0000333786010 397 10.8876018524170 0.0382547378540 -0.0000362396240 398 10.9258222579960 0.0382204055790 -0.0000343322750 399 10.9640092849730 0.0381870269770 -0.0000333786020 400 11.0021610260010 0.0381517410280 -0.0000352859490 401 11.0402774810790 0.0381164550780 -0.0000352859500 402 11.0783596038820 0.0380821228030 -0.0000343322750 403 11.1164073944090 0.0380477905270 -0.0000343322760 404 11.1544218063350 0.0380144119260 -0.0000333786010 405 11.1923999786380 0.0379781723030 -0.0000362396230 406 11.2303447723390 0.0379447937010 -0.0000333786020 407 11.2682552337650 0.0379104614260 -0.0000343322750 408 11.3061313629150 0.0378761291500 -0.0000343322760 409 11.3439741134640 0.0378427505490 -0.0000333786010 410 11.3817815780640 0.0378074646000 -0.0000352859490 411 11.4195556640630 0.0377740859990 -0.0000333786010 412 11.4572954177860 0.0377397537230 -0.0000343322760 413 11.4950008392330 0.0377054214470 -0.0000343322760 414 11.5326728820800 0.0376720428470 -0.0000333786000 415 11.5703105926510 0.0376377105710 -0.0000343322760 416 11.6079139709470 0.0376033782960 -0.0000343322750 417 11.6454839706420 0.0375699996950 -0.0000333786010 418 11.6830205917360 0.0375366210940 -0.0000333786010 419 11.7205228805540 0.0375022888180 -0.0000343322760 420 11.7579917907710 0.0374689102170 -0.0000333786010 421 11.7954273223880 0.0374355316170 -0.0000333786000 422 11.8328294754030 0.0374021530150 -0.0000333786020

 Defense Parry% Difference Change 300 5.0000000000000 303 5.1251888275146 304 5.1667699813843 0.0415811538697 305 5.2082781791687 0.0415081977844 -0.0000729560853 306 5.2497124671936 0.0414342880249 -0.0000739097595 307 5.2910733222961 0.0413608551025 -0.0000734329224 308 5.3323612213135 0.0412878990174 -0.0000729560851 309 5.3735761642456 0.0412149429321 -0.0000729560853 310 5.4147186279297 0.0411424636841 -0.0000724792480 311 5.4557881355286 0.0410695075989 -0.0000729560852 312 5.4967856407166 0.0409975051880 -0.0000720024109 313 5.5377106666565 0.0409250259399 -0.0000724792481 314 5.5785636901855 0.0408530235290 -0.0000720024109 315 5.6193451881409 0.0407814979554 -0.0000715255736 316 5.6600551605225 0.0407099723816 -0.0000715255738 317 5.7006936073303 0.0406384468078 -0.0000715255738 318 5.7412610054016 0.0405673980713 -0.0000710487365 319 5.7817568778992 0.0404958724976 -0.0000715255737 320 5.8221826553345 0.0404257774353 -0.0000700950623 321 5.8625373840332 0.0403547286987 -0.0000710487366 322 5.9028215408325 0.0402841567993 -0.0000705718994 323 5.9430356025696 0.0402140617371 -0.0000700950622 324 5.9831795692444 0.0401439666748 -0.0000700950623 325 6.0232534408569 0.0400738716125 -0.0000700950623 326 6.0632576942444 0.0400042533875 -0.0000696182250 327 6.1031923294067 0.0399346351623 -0.0000696182252 328 6.1430578231812 0.0398654937745 -0.0000691413878 329 6.1828536987305 0.0397958755493 -0.0000696182252 330 6.2225809097290 0.0397272109985 -0.0000686645508 331 6.2622399330139 0.0396590232849 -0.0000681877136 332 6.3018293380737 0.0395894050598 -0.0000696182251 333 6.3413500785828 0.0395207405091 -0.0000686645507 334 6.3808031082153 0.0394530296325 -0.0000677108766 335 6.4201874732971 0.0393843650818 -0.0000686645507 336 6.4595050811768 0.0393176078797 -0.0000667572021 337 6.4987540245056 0.0392489433288 -0.0000686645509 338 6.5379352569580 0.0391812324524 -0.0000677108764 339 6.5770492553711 0.0391139984131 -0.0000672340393 340 6.6160960197449 0.0390467643738 -0.0000672340393 341 6.6550760269165 0.0389800071716 -0.0000667572022 342 6.6939888000488 0.0389127731323 -0.0000672340393 343 6.7328348159790 0.0388460159302 -0.0000667572021 344 6.7716150283813 0.0387802124023 -0.0000658035279 345 6.8103275299072 0.0387125015259 -0.0000677108764 346 6.8489751815796 0.0386476516724 -0.0000648498535 347 6.8875560760498 0.0385808944702 -0.0000667572022 348 6.9260706901550 0.0385146141052 -0.0000662803650 349 6.9645204544067 0.0384497642517 -0.0000648498535 350 7.0029044151306 0.0383839607239 -0.0000658035278 351 7.0412225723267 0.0383181571961 -0.0000658035278 352 7.0794763565063 0.0382537841796 -0.0000643730165 353 7.1176638603210 0.0381875038147 -0.0000662803649 354 7.1557869911194 0.0381231307984 -0.0000643730163 355 7.1938462257385 0.0380592346191 -0.0000638961793 356 7.2318406105042 0.0379943847657 -0.0000648498534 357 7.2697696685791 0.0379290580749 -0.0000653266908 358 7.3076357841492 0.0378661155701 -0.0000629425048 359 7.3454370498657 0.0378012657165 -0.0000648498536 360 7.3831744194031 0.0377373695374 -0.0000638961791 361 7.4208488464355 0.0376744270324 -0.0000629425050 362 7.4584589004517 0.0376100540162 -0.0000643730162 363 7.4960060119629 0.0375471115112 -0.0000629425050 364 7.5334897041321 0.0374836921692 -0.0000634193420 365 7.5709104537964 0.0374207496643 -0.0000629425049 366 7.6082677841187 0.0373573303223 -0.0000634193420 367 7.6455631256104 0.0372953414917 -0.0000619888306 368 7.6827950477600 0.0372319221496 -0.0000634193421 369 7.7199654579163 0.0371704101563 -0.0000615119933 370 7.7570719718933 0.0371065139770 -0.0000638961793 371 7.7941179275513 0.0370459556580 -0.0000605583190 372 7.8311009407043 0.0369830131530 -0.0000629425050 373 7.8680224418640 0.0369215011597 -0.0000615119933 374 7.9048829078674 0.0368604660034 -0.0000610351563 375 7.9416809082031 0.0367980003357 -0.0000624656677 376 7.9784183502197 0.0367374420166 -0.0000605583191 377 8.0150938034058 0.0366754531861 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Stopped Playing

 09/21/08, 10:38 AM #188 Whitetooth Piston Honda     Hotdogee Orc Warlock   Ner'zhul From my data I was able to come up with an approximation formula. Parry=(a*b*Def*(1+b*Def)^-1.0+c)*2^-22 a = 1.9714701932078499E+08 b = 8.9016763465833986E-04 c = 1.5681781142791745E-01 peak absolute value of absolute error: 7.12653E-07 Dodge=(a*b*Def*(1+b*Def)^-1.0+c)*2^-22 a = 3.6965103932676291E+08 b = 4.7475555142568462E-04 c = 9.7341636227010531E-02 peak absolute value of absolute error: 6.89706E-07 Def is the amount of defense you gain from items, does not include base defense. Its not sure whether class or level has any effect on the formula. Hopefully someone will come up with a better one. Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US Author of RatingBuster
 09/21/08, 11:29 AM #189 Muphrid Don Flamenco   Muphrid Gnome Mage   Stormrage Whitetooth, I took your data on dodge and parry chances at different defense values and hypothesized that... $\frac{1}{1-a}= mx + b$ Where a is the total avoidance and x the defense (edited: not rating). And came up with the following regression: $\frac{1}{1-a}= 0.00111847848946036 x + 0.800112206318043$ With an R^2 = 0.999922660243495. I hypothesized this model based on the assumption that Blizzard had chosen to make avoidance ratings increase effective health (when such a metric includes avoidance) linearly. Edit: I shall do an analysis of the residuals that result from this later. Second edit: corrected to say x = total defense, not rating. Last edited by Muphrid : 09/21/08 at 4:31 PM.
09/21/08, 11:52 AM   #190
Rustik
Von Kaiser

Orc Warrior

Elune
I did a really quick number crunch with spoons data, calculating your length of survival for 300, 325, 350, 375, and 400 defense.

I assumed a 10,000 hitpoint pool, and incoming damage of 100 dps. Then I calculated how long it would take for you to die. I kept parry and dodge separate, though.

 Parry 300 defense = 95% taken = 105.26 seconds 325 defense = 93.9767465591431% taken = 106.41 seconds for 1.15 second increase 350 defense = 92.9970955848694% taken = 107.53 seconds for 1.12 second increase 375 defense = 92.0583190917969% taken = 108.63 seconds for 1.10 second increase 400 defense = 91.1579103469849% taken = 109.70 seconds for 1.07 second increase
 Dodge 300 defense = 92.9923005104065% taken = 107.54 seconds 325 defense = 91.9585447311401% taken = 108.74 seconds for 1.20 second increase 350 defense = 90.9487600326538% taken = 109.95 seconds for 1.21 second increase 375 defense = 89.962120056152% taken = 111.16 seconds for 1.21 second increase 400 defense = 88.997838973999% taken = 112.36 seconds for 1.20 second increase

Dodge seems to follow a linear path, but parry is dropping very slowly. Perhaps it calculates the three stats as a whole, and miss chance would make up for the loss?

09/21/08, 12:16 PM   #191
Selmarix
Piston Honda

Dwarf Hunter

Turalyon (EU)
 Originally Posted by Rustik Dodge seems to follow a linear path, but parry is dropping very slowly. Perhaps it calculates the three stats as a whole, and miss chance would make up for the loss?
If the avoidance stats diminish as a whole (rather than a separate diminishing for the single stats which would put druids at a disadvantage unless the formula is different for druids), then the question is how the resulting total avoidance is split up among the single stats.

One solution would be to diminish each stat by the same percentage. The weird thing about that is that your parry would slightly decrease when you add more dodge and vice versa. Should be easy to test with an item that only adds dodge or only adds parry.
The other solution is that the entire diminishing effect is applied to one of the stats first with the result that after a certain amount of avoidance you would push dodge, parry or miss off the table (whichever of them the diminishing returns are applied to).

09/21/08, 2:21 PM   #192
Whitetooth
Piston Honda

Orc Warlock

Ner'zhul
 Originally Posted by Selmarix If the avoidance stats diminish as a whole (rather than a separate diminishing for the single stats which would put druids at a disadvantage unless the formula is different for druids), then the question is how the resulting total avoidance is split up among the single stats. One solution would be to diminish each stat by the same percentage. The weird thing about that is that your parry would slightly decrease when you add more dodge and vice versa. Should be easy to test with an item that only adds dodge or only adds parry. The other solution is that the entire diminishing effect is applied to one of the stats first with the result that after a certain amount of avoidance you would push dodge, parry or miss off the table (whichever of them the diminishing returns are applied to).
I did some more tests on this matter:

Build: 8970
Name: Whitetooth (60 Warrior)
Base Defense: 300
Base Agi: 83
Dodge Rating: 0
 Defense Parry Rating Dodge% Parry% Increased Parry% 306 0 7.2580323219299 5.2497124671936 306 20 7.2580323219299 6.5900726318359 1.3403601646423 313 0 7.5482954978943 5.5377106666565 313 20 7.5482954978943 6.8618426322937 1.3241319656372

This proves that each stat is independent and does not affect each other, however, the amount of parry gained by parry rating diminishes with increasing defense.

Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US <Bahamut>
Author of RatingBuster

09/21/08, 3:20 PM   #193
Roywyn
Bald Bull

Roywyn
Gnome Mage

No WoW Account (EU)
Originally Posted by Whitetooth
I did some more tests on this matter:

Build: 8970
Name: Whitetooth (60 Warrior)
Base Defense: 300
Base Agi: 83
Dodge Rating: 0
 Defense Parry Rating Dodge% Parry% Increased Parry% 306 0 7.2580323219299 5.2497124671936 306 20 7.2580323219299 6.5900726318359 1.3403601646423 313 0 7.5482954978943 5.5377106666565 313 20 7.5482954978943 6.8618426322937 1.3241319656372

This proves that each stat is independent and does not affect each other, however, the amount of parry gained by parry rating diminishes with increasing defense.
Do you have a pure +dodge item ([Helm of Awareness] from Dire Maul, or [Charm of Alacrity] from an easy Hellfire quest)?

I'd love to see how the numbers above with some fixed amount of dodge on top.
I.e. 306def/Xdodge/0parry, 306def/Xdodge/20parry, 313def/Xdodge/0parry, 313def/Xdodge/20parry.

Actually, just speccing into the +5% dodge talent and rechecking the numbers above would be interesting enough I think.

Oh, for completeness: Prepatch, +20 parry would have been 1.333333% parry and 7 defense skill would have been 0.28% parry/dodge.
So, it's a very minor gain on very low gear levels at least.

 Originally Posted by Rustik I did a really quick number crunch with spoons data, calculating your length of survival for 300, 325, 350, 375, and 400 defense. Dodge seems to follow a linear path, but parry is dropping very slowly. Perhaps it calculates the three stats as a whole, and miss chance would make up for the loss?

If the [dodge at 300+x*25 => dodge at 300+(x+1)*25] lifetime increase is 1.21s, then maybe
[dodge at 300+(x+1)*25 + parry at 300+x*25 => dodge at 300+(x+1)*25 + parry at 300+(x+1)*25] could be a 1.21s increase as well from the (x)-to-(x+1) parry increase as well, or something similar?

Last edited by Roywyn : 09/21/08 at 3:36 PM.

Chaotic Meta Gems in Cataclysm: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t106009-...2/#post1794256

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput
The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

09/21/08, 3:46 PM   #194
Selmarix
Piston Honda

Dwarf Hunter

Turalyon (EU)
 Originally Posted by Roywyn Actually, just speccing into the +5% dodge talent and rechecking the numbers above would be interesting enough I think.
The dodge and parry added from talents seems to be a flat addition without diminishing returns. That means the value of those talents actually scales with gear (due to increasing returns of flat avoidance percent additions).

 09/21/08, 5:02 PM #195 Muphrid Don Flamenco   Muphrid Gnome Mage   Stormrage I've analyzed the residuals of my model; the graph showed a very obvious parabolic trend to the residuals, so I doubt it's the correct model. Edit: after some work on the residuals, I arrived at a fourth-order model, where 1/(1-avoidance) is given by 2.0103165674588E-14 x^4 + 9.9870077774207E-11 x^3 + 1.89536760923728E-07 x^2 + 0.000937935027728877 x + 0.835164926730915, where x is defense. Admittedly, I'm not entirely happy with this fourth-order model. While the residuals show no specific trend (to indicate a higher order model is needed), they do increase in spread as a function of defense, which doesn't make sense to me...but I suppose it could be a result of Blizzard's internal rounding. Last edited by Muphrid : 09/21/08 at 6:04 PM.

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