Combat Ratings at level 85 (Cataclysm) - Page 13

Kavan · 09/18/08, 4:59 PM

It looks like the spirit regen formula changed. At level 80 with 687 int and 475 spi I should get 443 mp5 according to numbers in the first post. In current beta build this only gives 347 mp5. If the form is the same then coefficient changed to 0.005575.

Whitetooth · 09/18/08, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Kavan

It looks like the spirit regen formula changed. At level 80 with 687 int and 475 spi I should get 443 mp5 according to numbers in the first post. In current beta build this only gives 347 mp5. If the form is the same then coefficient changed to 0.005575.

You are right, these are the changes I found in build 8962, first post and RatingBuster also updated:

1. Mana regen from Spirit nerfed at level 71 to 80, at level 80 the amount of regen is nerfed to about 78% of the original value.
2. Players lower then level 34 will now convert resilience ratings at the same rate as level 34 players.

Level	BASE_REGEN@8962	BASE_REGEN@8926
71	0.008859	0.009079
72	0.008415	0.008838
73	0.007993	0.008603
74	0.007592	0.008375
75	0.007211	0.008152
76	0.006849	0.007936
77	0.006506	0.007725
78	0.006179	0.00752
79	0.005869	0.00732
80	0.005575	0.007125

Modal · 09/19/08, 4:57 PM

WotLK Beta (US-English) Forums -> Avoidance change

We just restarted the servers to fix an issue with the diminishing returns formula we added for Dodge, Parry, and the enemy's chance to miss you. The issue fixed was that the formula now works! This will have a definite effect on all tanks ability to mitigate damage due to effectively lowered amounts of those avoidance values.

Confirmation of diminishing returns for dodge, parry, and even miss chance from defense. It sounds to me like the formula may have changed since our earlier tests. I've been trying to level to 80 before gathering more data but it's slow going.

sp00n · 09/20/08, 2:08 PM

Yeah, that was something I was going to ask about as well, the changed dodge formula.

I noted down my chance to dodge both on live, in build 8926 and now in 8970.
Live: 639 agility, 32.36% dodge (according to the character sheet)
8926: 627 agility, 31.00% dodge (missing Vitality for 2% increased agility)
8970: 627 agility, 27.78% dodge (again, missing 2% agility due to talents / talent changes)

I don't remember if the racial 1% dodge bonus was already changed into 2% miss in build 8926, but in 8970 it's in according to the spell book.
That means a decrease of about 2% dodge with 627 agility.

Cuer · 09/20/08, 11:14 PM

A comment from Daelo:

Everything on the server as it relates to combat ratings, critical hits, avoidance diminishing returns, etc. should now be working properly.

I'm looking forward to feedback from the community about the changes, and especially any hard data from combat logs. I'll try to help with information as possible but we're very busy right now. Compressing all the information from various code and data sources into a coherent, readable post takes time that I and others need to spend on other things right now. I also have faith in the community's ability to construct an accurate model of it from empirical data.

Time for more data!

Whitetooth · 09/21/08, 6:16 AM

I did a thorough test on defense with my level 60 warrior in build 8970, the data was made possible because I my warrior happens to have over 100 level 60 epics, the data took hours to get, mix matching gear with no agi, no parry, no dodge and only defense.

Hopefuly we can get something out of this.

Build: 8970
Name: Whitetooth (60 Warrior)
Base Defense: 300
Base Agi: 83
Command: /print select(1, UnitDefense("player"))+select(2, UnitDefense("player")).." "..GetDodgeChance().." "..GetParryChance().." "..GetCombatRating(CR_DODGE).." "..GetCombatRating(CR_PARRY).." "..select(1, UnitStat("player", 2))

Defense	Dodge%	Parry%
300	7.0076994895935	5
303	7.1330442428589	5.1251888275146
304	7.1747460365295	5.1667699813843
305	7.2164087295532	5.2082781791687
306	7.2580323219299	5.2497124671936
307	7.2996163368225	5.2910733222961
308	7.341160774231	5.3323612213135
309	7.3826661109924	5.3735761642456
310	7.4241323471069	5.4147186279297
311	7.4655590057373	5.4557881355286
312	7.5069470405579	5.4967856407166
313	7.5482954978943	5.5377106666565
314	7.5896062850952	5.5785636901855
315	7.6308765411377	5.6193451881409
316	7.6721086502075	5.6600551605225
317	7.7133016586304	5.7006936073303
318	7.7544560432434	5.7412610054016
319	7.7955713272095	5.7817568778992
320	7.83664894104	5.8221826553345
321	7.8776865005493	5.8625373840332
322	7.9186863899231	5.9028215408325
323	7.9596476554871	5.9430356025696
324	8.0005702972412	5.9831795692444
325	8.0414552688599	6.0232534408569
326	8.0823011398315	6.0632576942444
327	8.1231088638306	6.1031923294067
328	8.1638784408569	6.1430578231812
329	8.2046098709106	6.1828536987305
330	8.2453031539917	6.222580909729
331	8.2859573364258	6.2622399330139
332	8.3265752792358	6.3018293380737
333	8.3671541213989	6.3413500785828
334	8.4076957702637	6.3808031082153
335	8.4481983184814	6.4201874732971
336	8.4886636734009	6.4595050811768
337	8.529091835022	6.4987540245056
338	8.5694818496704	6.537935256958
339	8.6098346710205	6.5770492553711
340	8.6501493453979	6.6160960197449
341	8.6904268264771	6.6550760269165
342	8.7306661605835	6.6939888000488
343	8.7708683013916	6.732834815979
344	8.8110332489014	6.7716150283813
345	8.8511610031128	6.8103275299072
346	8.8912506103516	6.8489751815796
347	8.9313049316406	6.8875560760498
348	8.9713201522827	6.926070690155
349	9.0112991333008	6.9645204544067
350	9.0512399673462	7.0029044151306
351	9.0911455154419	7.0412225723267
352	9.1310129165649	7.0794763565063
353	9.170844078064	7.117663860321
354	9.2106370925903	7.1557869911194
355	9.2503938674927	7.1938462257385
356	9.290114402771	7.2318406105042
357	9.329797744751	7.2697696685791
358	9.3694448471069	7.3076357841492
359	9.4090547561646	7.3454370498657
360	9.4486284255981	7.3831744194031
361	9.4881658554077	7.4208488464355
362	9.5276670455933	7.4584589004517
363	9.5671310424805	7.4960060119629
364	9.6065587997437	7.5334897041321
365	9.6459503173828	7.5709104537964
366	9.6853055953979	7.6082677841187
367	9.7246246337891	7.6455631256104
368	9.7639083862305	7.68279504776
369	9.8031549453735	7.7199654579163
370	9.8423662185669	7.7570719718933
371	9.8815402984619	7.7941179275513
372	9.9206790924072	7.8311009407043
373	9.9597816467285	7.868022441864
374	9.9988489151001	7.9048829078674
375	10.037879943848	7.9416809082031
376	10.076875686646	7.9784183502197
377	10.115835189819	8.0150938034058
378	10.154759407043	8.0517091751099
379	10.193647384644	8.0882635116577
380	10.232500076294	8.124755859375
381	10.271317481995	8.1611890792847
382	10.310099601746	8.1975612640381
383	10.348846435547	8.2338724136353
384	10.387557029724	8.2701234817505
385	10.426232337952	8.3063154220581
386	10.464872360229	8.3424472808838
387	10.503478050232	8.3785200119019
388	10.54204750061	8.414532661438
389	10.580582618713	8.4504852294922
390	10.619082450867	8.4863786697388
391	10.65754699707	8.5222139358521
392	10.695977210999	8.5579891204834
393	10.734372138977	8.5937070846558
394	10.772731781006	8.6293649673462
395	10.811056137085	8.664963722229
396	10.849347114563	8.7005052566528
397	10.887601852417	8.7359886169434
398	10.925822257996	8.7714138031006
399	10.964009284973	8.8067808151245
400	11.002161026001	8.8420896530151
401	11.040277481079	8.8773412704468
402	11.078359603882	8.9125356674194
403	11.116407394409	8.9476728439331
404	11.154421806335	8.9827518463135
405	11.192399978638	9.0177736282349
406	11.230344772339	9.0527391433716
407	11.268255233765	9.0876474380493
408	11.306131362915	9.1224994659424
409	11.343974113464	9.1572952270508
410	11.381781578064	9.1920328140259
411	11.419555664063	9.2267160415649
412	11.457295417786	9.261342048645
413	11.495000839233	9.2959117889404
414	11.53267288208	9.3304271697998
415	11.570310592651	9.3648853302002
416	11.607913970947	9.3992891311646
417	11.645483970642	9.4336357116699
418	11.683020591736	9.4679279327393
419	11.720522880554	9.5021648406982
420	11.757991790771	9.5363473892212
421	11.795427322388	9.5704746246338
422	11.832829475403	9.6045475006104

sp00n · 09/21/08, 6:58 AM

Defense	Dodge%	Difference	Change
300	7.0076994895935
303	7.1330442428589
304	7.1747460365295	0.0417017936706
305	7.2164087295532	0.0416626930237	-0.0000391006469
306	7.2580323219299	0.0416235923767	-0.0000391006470
307	7.2996163368225	0.0415840148926	-0.0000395774841
308	7.3411607742310	0.0415444374085	-0.0000395774841
309	7.3826661109924	0.0415053367614	-0.0000391006471
310	7.4241323471069	0.0414662361145	-0.0000391006469
311	7.4655590057373	0.0414266586304	-0.0000395774841
312	7.5069470405579	0.0413880348206	-0.0000386238098
313	7.5482954978943	0.0413484573364	-0.0000395774842
314	7.5896062850952	0.0413107872009	-0.0000376701355
315	7.6308765411377	0.0412702560425	-0.0000405311584
316	7.6721086502075	0.0412321090698	-0.0000381469727
317	7.7133016586304	0.0411930084229	-0.0000391006469
318	7.7544560432434	0.0411543846130	-0.0000386238099
319	7.7955713272095	0.0411152839661	-0.0000391006469
320	7.8366489410400	0.0410776138305	-0.0000376701356
321	7.8776865005493	0.0410375595093	-0.0000400543212
322	7.9186863899231	0.0409998893738	-0.0000376701355
323	7.9596476554871	0.0409612655640	-0.0000386238098
324	8.0005702972412	0.0409226417541	-0.0000386238099
325	8.0414552688599	0.0408849716187	-0.0000376701354
326	8.0823011398315	0.0408458709716	-0.0000391006471
327	8.1231088638306	0.0408077239991	-0.0000381469725
328	8.1638784408569	0.0407695770263	-0.0000381469728
329	8.2046098709106	0.0407314300537	-0.0000381469726
330	8.2453031539917	0.0406932830811	-0.0000381469726
331	8.2859573364258	0.0406541824341	-0.0000391006470
332	8.3265752792358	0.0406179428100	-0.0000362396241
333	8.3671541213989	0.0405788421631	-0.0000391006469
334	8.4076957702637	0.0405416488648	-0.0000371932983
335	8.4481983184814	0.0405025482177	-0.0000391006471
336	8.4886636734009	0.0404653549195	-0.0000371932982
337	8.5290918350220	0.0404281616211	-0.0000371932984
338	8.5694818496704	0.0403900146484	-0.0000381469727
339	8.6098346710205	0.0403528213501	-0.0000371932983
340	8.6501493453979	0.0403146743774	-0.0000381469727
341	8.6904268264771	0.0402774810792	-0.0000371932982
342	8.7306661605835	0.0402393341064	-0.0000381469728
343	8.7708683013916	0.0402021408081	-0.0000371932983
344	8.8110332489014	0.0401649475098	-0.0000371932983
345	8.8511610031128	0.0401277542114	-0.0000371932984
346	8.8912506103516	0.0400896072388	-0.0000381469726
347	8.9313049316406	0.0400543212890	-0.0000352859498
348	8.9713201522827	0.0400152206421	-0.0000391006469
349	9.0112991333008	0.0399789810181	-0.0000362396240
350	9.0512399673462	0.0399408340454	-0.0000381469727
351	9.0911455154419	0.0399055480957	-0.0000352859497
352	9.1310129165649	0.0398674011230	-0.0000381469727
353	9.1708440780640	0.0398311614991	-0.0000362396239
354	9.2106370925903	0.0397930145263	-0.0000381469728
355	9.2503938674927	0.0397567749024	-0.0000362396239
356	9.2901144027710	0.0397205352783	-0.0000362396241
357	9.3297977447510	0.0396833419800	-0.0000371932983
358	9.3694448471069	0.0396471023559	-0.0000362396241
359	9.4090547561646	0.0396099090577	-0.0000371932982
360	9.4486284255981	0.0395736694335	-0.0000362396242
361	9.4881658554077	0.0395374298096	-0.0000362396239
362	9.5276670455933	0.0395011901856	-0.0000362396240
363	9.5671310424805	0.0394639968872	-0.0000371932984
364	9.6065587997437	0.0394277572632	-0.0000362396240
365	9.6459503173828	0.0393915176391	-0.0000362396241
366	9.6853055953979	0.0393552780151	-0.0000362396240
367	9.7246246337891	0.0393190383912	-0.0000362396239
368	9.7639083862305	0.0392837524414	-0.0000352859498
369	9.8031549453735	0.0392465591430	-0.0000371932984
370	9.8423662185669	0.0392112731934	-0.0000352859496
371	9.8815402984619	0.0391740798950	-0.0000371932984
372	9.9206790924072	0.0391387939453	-0.0000352859497
373	9.9597816467285	0.0391025543213	-0.0000362396240
374	9.9988489151001	0.0390672683716	-0.0000352859497
375	10.0378799438480	0.0390310287479	-0.0000362396237
376	10.0768756866460	0.0389957427980	-0.0000352859499
377	10.1158351898190	0.0389595031730	-0.0000362396250
378	10.1547594070430	0.0389242172240	-0.0000352859490
379	10.1936473846440	0.0388879776010	-0.0000362396230
380	10.2325000762940	0.0388526916500	-0.0000352859510
381	10.2713174819950	0.0388174057010	-0.0000352859490
382	10.3100996017460	0.0387821197510	-0.0000352859500
383	10.3488464355470	0.0387468338010	-0.0000352859500
384	10.3875570297240	0.0387105941770	-0.0000362396240
385	10.4262323379520	0.0386753082280	-0.0000352859490
386	10.4648723602290	0.0386400222770	-0.0000352859510
387	10.5034780502320	0.0386056900030	-0.0000343322740
388	10.5420475006100	0.0385694503780	-0.0000362396250
389	10.5805826187130	0.0385351181030	-0.0000343322750
390	10.6190824508670	0.0384998321540	-0.0000352859490
391	10.6575469970700	0.0384645462030	-0.0000352859510
392	10.6959772109990	0.0384302139290	-0.0000343322740
393	10.7343721389770	0.0383949279780	-0.0000352859510
394	10.7727317810060	0.0383596420290	-0.0000352859490
395	10.8110561370850	0.0383243560790	-0.0000352859500
396	10.8493471145630	0.0382909774780	-0.0000333786010
397	10.8876018524170	0.0382547378540	-0.0000362396240
398	10.9258222579960	0.0382204055790	-0.0000343322750
399	10.9640092849730	0.0381870269770	-0.0000333786020
400	11.0021610260010	0.0381517410280	-0.0000352859490
401	11.0402774810790	0.0381164550780	-0.0000352859500
402	11.0783596038820	0.0380821228030	-0.0000343322750
403	11.1164073944090	0.0380477905270	-0.0000343322760
404	11.1544218063350	0.0380144119260	-0.0000333786010
405	11.1923999786380	0.0379781723030	-0.0000362396230
406	11.2303447723390	0.0379447937010	-0.0000333786020
407	11.2682552337650	0.0379104614260	-0.0000343322750
408	11.3061313629150	0.0378761291500	-0.0000343322760
409	11.3439741134640	0.0378427505490	-0.0000333786010
410	11.3817815780640	0.0378074646000	-0.0000352859490
411	11.4195556640630	0.0377740859990	-0.0000333786010
412	11.4572954177860	0.0377397537230	-0.0000343322760
413	11.4950008392330	0.0377054214470	-0.0000343322760
414	11.5326728820800	0.0376720428470	-0.0000333786000
415	11.5703105926510	0.0376377105710	-0.0000343322760
416	11.6079139709470	0.0376033782960	-0.0000343322750
417	11.6454839706420	0.0375699996950	-0.0000333786010
418	11.6830205917360	0.0375366210940	-0.0000333786010
419	11.7205228805540	0.0375022888180	-0.0000343322760
420	11.7579917907710	0.0374689102170	-0.0000333786010
421	11.7954273223880	0.0374355316170	-0.0000333786000
422	11.8328294754030	0.0374021530150	-0.0000333786020

Defense	Parry%	Difference	Change
300	5.0000000000000
303	5.1251888275146
304	5.1667699813843	0.0415811538697
305	5.2082781791687	0.0415081977844	-0.0000729560853
306	5.2497124671936	0.0414342880249	-0.0000739097595
307	5.2910733222961	0.0413608551025	-0.0000734329224
308	5.3323612213135	0.0412878990174	-0.0000729560851
309	5.3735761642456	0.0412149429321	-0.0000729560853
310	5.4147186279297	0.0411424636841	-0.0000724792480
311	5.4557881355286	0.0410695075989	-0.0000729560852
312	5.4967856407166	0.0409975051880	-0.0000720024109
313	5.5377106666565	0.0409250259399	-0.0000724792481
314	5.5785636901855	0.0408530235290	-0.0000720024109
315	5.6193451881409	0.0407814979554	-0.0000715255736
316	5.6600551605225	0.0407099723816	-0.0000715255738
317	5.7006936073303	0.0406384468078	-0.0000715255738
318	5.7412610054016	0.0405673980713	-0.0000710487365
319	5.7817568778992	0.0404958724976	-0.0000715255737
320	5.8221826553345	0.0404257774353	-0.0000700950623
321	5.8625373840332	0.0403547286987	-0.0000710487366
322	5.9028215408325	0.0402841567993	-0.0000705718994
323	5.9430356025696	0.0402140617371	-0.0000700950622
324	5.9831795692444	0.0401439666748	-0.0000700950623
325	6.0232534408569	0.0400738716125	-0.0000700950623
326	6.0632576942444	0.0400042533875	-0.0000696182250
327	6.1031923294067	0.0399346351623	-0.0000696182252
328	6.1430578231812	0.0398654937745	-0.0000691413878
329	6.1828536987305	0.0397958755493	-0.0000696182252
330	6.2225809097290	0.0397272109985	-0.0000686645508
331	6.2622399330139	0.0396590232849	-0.0000681877136
332	6.3018293380737	0.0395894050598	-0.0000696182251
333	6.3413500785828	0.0395207405091	-0.0000686645507
334	6.3808031082153	0.0394530296325	-0.0000677108766
335	6.4201874732971	0.0393843650818	-0.0000686645507
336	6.4595050811768	0.0393176078797	-0.0000667572021
337	6.4987540245056	0.0392489433288	-0.0000686645509
338	6.5379352569580	0.0391812324524	-0.0000677108764
339	6.5770492553711	0.0391139984131	-0.0000672340393
340	6.6160960197449	0.0390467643738	-0.0000672340393
341	6.6550760269165	0.0389800071716	-0.0000667572022
342	6.6939888000488	0.0389127731323	-0.0000672340393
343	6.7328348159790	0.0388460159302	-0.0000667572021
344	6.7716150283813	0.0387802124023	-0.0000658035279
345	6.8103275299072	0.0387125015259	-0.0000677108764
346	6.8489751815796	0.0386476516724	-0.0000648498535
347	6.8875560760498	0.0385808944702	-0.0000667572022
348	6.9260706901550	0.0385146141052	-0.0000662803650
349	6.9645204544067	0.0384497642517	-0.0000648498535
350	7.0029044151306	0.0383839607239	-0.0000658035278
351	7.0412225723267	0.0383181571961	-0.0000658035278
352	7.0794763565063	0.0382537841796	-0.0000643730165
353	7.1176638603210	0.0381875038147	-0.0000662803649
354	7.1557869911194	0.0381231307984	-0.0000643730163
355	7.1938462257385	0.0380592346191	-0.0000638961793
356	7.2318406105042	0.0379943847657	-0.0000648498534
357	7.2697696685791	0.0379290580749	-0.0000653266908
358	7.3076357841492	0.0378661155701	-0.0000629425048
359	7.3454370498657	0.0378012657165	-0.0000648498536
360	7.3831744194031	0.0377373695374	-0.0000638961791
361	7.4208488464355	0.0376744270324	-0.0000629425050
362	7.4584589004517	0.0376100540162	-0.0000643730162
363	7.4960060119629	0.0375471115112	-0.0000629425050
364	7.5334897041321	0.0374836921692	-0.0000634193420
365	7.5709104537964	0.0374207496643	-0.0000629425049
366	7.6082677841187	0.0373573303223	-0.0000634193420
367	7.6455631256104	0.0372953414917	-0.0000619888306
368	7.6827950477600	0.0372319221496	-0.0000634193421
369	7.7199654579163	0.0371704101563	-0.0000615119933
370	7.7570719718933	0.0371065139770	-0.0000638961793
371	7.7941179275513	0.0370459556580	-0.0000605583190
372	7.8311009407043	0.0369830131530	-0.0000629425050
373	7.8680224418640	0.0369215011597	-0.0000615119933
374	7.9048829078674	0.0368604660034	-0.0000610351563
375	7.9416809082031	0.0367980003357	-0.0000624656677
376	7.9784183502197	0.0367374420166	-0.0000605583191
377	8.0150938034058	0.0366754531861	-0.0000619888305
378	8.0517091751099	0.0366153717041	-0.0000600814820
379	8.0882635116577	0.0365543365478	-0.0000610351563
380	8.1247558593750	0.0364923477173	-0.0000619888305
381	8.1611890792847	0.0364332199097	-0.0000591278076
382	8.1975612640381	0.0363721847534	-0.0000610351563
383	8.2338724136353	0.0363111495972	-0.0000610351562
384	8.2701234817505	0.0362510681152	-0.0000600814820
385	8.3063154220581	0.0361919403076	-0.0000591278076
386	8.3424472808838	0.0361318588257	-0.0000600814819
387	8.3785200119019	0.0360727310181	-0.0000591278076
388	8.4145326614380	0.0360126495361	-0.0000600814820
389	8.4504852294922	0.0359525680542	-0.0000600814819
390	8.4863786697388	0.0358934402466	-0.0000591278076
391	8.5222139358521	0.0358352661133	-0.0000581741333
392	8.5579891204834	0.0357751846313	-0.0000600814820
393	8.5937070846558	0.0357179641724	-0.0000572204589
394	8.6293649673462	0.0356578826904	-0.0000600814820
395	8.6649637222290	0.0355987548828	-0.0000591278076
396	8.7005052566528	0.0355415344238	-0.0000572204590
397	8.7359886169434	0.0354833602906	-0.0000581741332
398	8.7714138031006	0.0354251861572	-0.0000581741334
399	8.8067808151245	0.0353670120239	-0.0000581741333
400	8.8420896530151	0.0353088378906	-0.0000581741333
401	8.8773412704468	0.0352516174317	-0.0000572204589
402	8.9125356674194	0.0351943969726	-0.0000572204591
403	8.9476728439331	0.0351371765137	-0.0000572204589
404	8.9827518463135	0.0350790023804	-0.0000581741333
405	9.0177736282349	0.0350217819214	-0.0000572204590
406	9.0527391433716	0.0349655151367	-0.0000562667847
407	9.0876474380493	0.0349082946777	-0.0000572204590
408	9.1224994659424	0.0348520278931	-0.0000562667846
409	9.1572952270508	0.0347957611084	-0.0000562667847
410	9.1920328140259	0.0347375869751	-0.0000581741333
411	9.2267160415649	0.0346832275390	-0.0000543594361
412	9.2613420486450	0.0346260070801	-0.0000572204589
413	9.2959117889404	0.0345697402954	-0.0000562667847
414	9.3304271697998	0.0345153808594	-0.0000543594360
415	9.3648853302002	0.0344581604004	-0.0000572204590
416	9.3992891311646	0.0344038009644	-0.0000543594360
417	9.4336357116699	0.0343465805053	-0.0000572204591
418	9.4679279327393	0.0342922210694	-0.0000543594359
419	9.5021648406982	0.0342369079589	-0.0000553131105
420	9.5363473892212	0.0341825485230	-0.0000543594359
421	9.5704746246338	0.0341272354126	-0.0000553131104
422	9.6045475006104	0.0340728759766	-0.0000543594360

Whitetooth · 09/21/08, 10:38 AM

From my data I was able to come up with an approximation formula.

Parry=(a*b*Def*(1+b*Def)^-1.0+c)*2^-22
a = 1.9714701932078499E+08
b = 8.9016763465833986E-04
c = 1.5681781142791745E-01
peak absolute value of absolute error: 7.12653E-07

Dodge=(a*b*Def*(1+b*Def)^-1.0+c)*2^-22
a = 3.6965103932676291E+08
b = 4.7475555142568462E-04
c = 9.7341636227010531E-02
peak absolute value of absolute error: 6.89706E-07

Def is the amount of defense you gain from items, does not include base defense.

Its not sure whether class or level has any effect on the formula.

Hopefully someone will come up with a better one.

Muphrid · 09/21/08, 11:29 AM

Whitetooth, I took your data on dodge and parry chances at different defense values and hypothesized that...

$\frac{1}{1-a} = mx + b$

Where a is the total avoidance and x the defense (edited: not rating).

And came up with the following regression:

$\frac{1}{1-a} = 0.00111847848946036 x + 0.800112206318043$

With an R^2 = 0.999922660243495.

I hypothesized this model based on the assumption that Blizzard had chosen to make avoidance ratings increase effective health (when such a metric includes avoidance) linearly.

Edit: I shall do an analysis of the residuals that result from this later.

Second edit: corrected to say x = total defense, not rating.

Rustik · 09/21/08, 11:52 AM

I did a really quick number crunch with spoons data, calculating your length of survival for 300, 325, 350, 375, and 400 defense.

I assumed a 10,000 hitpoint pool, and incoming damage of 100 dps. Then I calculated how long it would take for you to die. I kept parry and dodge separate, though.

Parry

300 defense = 95% taken = 105.26 seconds
325 defense = 93.9767465591431% taken = 106.41 seconds for 1.15 second increase
350 defense = 92.9970955848694% taken = 107.53 seconds for 1.12 second increase
375 defense = 92.0583190917969% taken = 108.63 seconds for 1.10 second increase
400 defense = 91.1579103469849% taken = 109.70 seconds for 1.07 second increase

Dodge

300 defense = 92.9923005104065% taken = 107.54 seconds
325 defense = 91.9585447311401% taken = 108.74 seconds for 1.20 second increase
350 defense = 90.9487600326538% taken = 109.95 seconds for 1.21 second increase
375 defense = 89.962120056152% taken = 111.16 seconds for 1.21 second increase
400 defense = 88.997838973999% taken = 112.36 seconds for 1.20 second increase

Dodge seems to follow a linear path, but parry is dropping very slowly. Perhaps it calculates the three stats as a whole, and miss chance would make up for the loss?

Selmarix · 09/21/08, 12:16 PM

Originally Posted by Rustik

Dodge seems to follow a linear path, but parry is dropping very slowly. Perhaps it calculates the three stats as a whole, and miss chance would make up for the loss?

If the avoidance stats diminish as a whole (rather than a separate diminishing for the single stats which would put druids at a disadvantage unless the formula is different for druids), then the question is how the resulting total avoidance is split up among the single stats.

One solution would be to diminish each stat by the same percentage. The weird thing about that is that your parry would slightly decrease when you add more dodge and vice versa. Should be easy to test with an item that only adds dodge or only adds parry.
The other solution is that the entire diminishing effect is applied to one of the stats first with the result that after a certain amount of avoidance you would push dodge, parry or miss off the table (whichever of them the diminishing returns are applied to).

Whitetooth · 09/21/08, 2:21 PM

Originally Posted by Selmarix

If the avoidance stats diminish as a whole (rather than a separate diminishing for the single stats which would put druids at a disadvantage unless the formula is different for druids), then the question is how the resulting total avoidance is split up among the single stats.

One solution would be to diminish each stat by the same percentage. The weird thing about that is that your parry would slightly decrease when you add more dodge and vice versa. Should be easy to test with an item that only adds dodge or only adds parry.
The other solution is that the entire diminishing effect is applied to one of the stats first with the result that after a certain amount of avoidance you would push dodge, parry or miss off the table (whichever of them the diminishing returns are applied to).

I did some more tests on this matter:

Build: 8970
Name: Whitetooth (60 Warrior)
Base Defense: 300
Base Agi: 83
Dodge Rating: 0

Defense	Parry Rating	Dodge%	Parry%	Increased Parry%
306	0	7.2580323219299	5.2497124671936
306	20	7.2580323219299	6.5900726318359	1.3403601646423
313	0	7.5482954978943	5.5377106666565
313	20	7.5482954978943	6.8618426322937	1.3241319656372

This proves that each stat is independent and does not affect each other, however, the amount of parry gained by parry rating diminishes with increasing defense.

Roywyn · 09/21/08, 3:20 PM

Originally Posted by Whitetooth

I did some more tests on this matter:

Build: 8970
Name: Whitetooth (60 Warrior)
Base Defense: 300
Base Agi: 83
Dodge Rating: 0

Defense	Parry Rating	Dodge%	Parry%	Increased Parry%
306	0	7.2580323219299	5.2497124671936
306	20	7.2580323219299	6.5900726318359	1.3403601646423
313	0	7.5482954978943	5.5377106666565
313	20	7.5482954978943	6.8618426322937	1.3241319656372

This proves that each stat is independent and does not affect each other, however, the amount of parry gained by parry rating diminishes with increasing defense.

Do you have a pure +dodge item ([Helm of Awareness] from Dire Maul, or [Charm of Alacrity] from an easy Hellfire quest)?

I'd love to see how the numbers above with some fixed amount of dodge on top.
I.e. 306def/Xdodge/0parry, 306def/Xdodge/20parry, 313def/Xdodge/0parry, 313def/Xdodge/20parry.

Actually, just speccing into the +5% dodge talent and rechecking the numbers above would be interesting enough I think.

Oh, for completeness: Prepatch, +20 parry would have been 1.333333% parry and 7 defense skill would have been 0.28% parry/dodge.
So, it's a very minor gain on very low gear levels at least.

Originally Posted by Rustik

I did a really quick number crunch with spoons data, calculating your length of survival for 300, 325, 350, 375, and 400 defense.

Dodge seems to follow a linear path, but parry is dropping very slowly. Perhaps it calculates the three stats as a whole, and miss chance would make up for the loss?

It seems like your dodge is calculated first, then your parry?

If the [dodge at 300+x*25 => dodge at 300+(x+1)*25] lifetime increase is 1.21s, then maybe
[dodge at 300+(x+1)*25 + parry at 300+x*25 => dodge at 300+(x+1)*25 + parry at 300+(x+1)*25] could be a 1.21s increase as well from the (x)-to-(x+1) parry increase as well, or something similar?

Selmarix · 09/21/08, 3:46 PM

Originally Posted by Roywyn

Actually, just speccing into the +5% dodge talent and rechecking the numbers above would be interesting enough I think.

The dodge and parry added from talents seems to be a flat addition without diminishing returns. That means the value of those talents actually scales with gear (due to increasing returns of flat avoidance percent additions).

Muphrid · 09/21/08, 5:02 PM

I've analyzed the residuals of my model; the graph showed a very obvious parabolic trend to the residuals, so I doubt it's the correct model.

Edit: after some work on the residuals, I arrived at a fourth-order model, where 1/(1-avoidance) is given by 2.0103165674588E-14 x^4 + 9.9870077774207E-11 x^3 + 1.89536760923728E-07 x^2 + 0.000937935027728877 x + 0.835164926730915, where x is defense.

Admittedly, I'm not entirely happy with this fourth-order model. While the residuals show no specific trend (to indicate a higher order model is needed), they do increase in spread as a function of defense, which doesn't make sense to me...but I suppose it could be a result of Blizzard's internal rounding.