Im just curious if 49905 armor is needed for druids to get 75% damage reduction againts level 83 bosses if they also have protector of the pack wich reduces damage taken by 3% for each member of the party. So in a 5 person party they have 15% damage reduction. does this 15% damage reduction stack with the 75% damage reduction, or will druids have a lower armor requirement for 75% damage reduction against level 83 bosses? And if so what are they?

Protector of the Pack provides 12% damage reduction, not 15%. PotP's damage reduction is not armor. It's completely separate, you still can reach 75% damage reduction from armor, and then take 12% off of what's left.

This is all documented in the druid forum here. Please try searching before asking questions.

Forgive the likely terrible question but in the OP it says DK's Parry from Base Strength is counted in DR and that the base parry is 5%. Does this mean:

Naked DK at 80 has 5% parry, and this 5% counts towards DR
or
Naked DK at 80 has 5% parry + x, where x is (Naked Unbuffed Tooltip Strength/4)/49.18498611. And only x is counted towards DR?

Thanks.

The base parry of 5% is NOT factored into diminishing returns.

If you have x STR, then you will also have (x * 0.25) parry rating. The parry gained from this conversion is factored into diminishing returns.

I was referring to
"3. Death Knight's Parry from base Strength is affected by DR, base for parry is 5%."
in the OP and how it applies

Are DRs even enabled at this time?

Our L80 MT has 541 defense (5.64% dodge+parry), 320 dodge rating (8.132563% dodge), 89 parry rating (1.809495% parry). According to the formula:

Dodge(DR) = 1 / ((1 / 3.463600 ) + (0.956 / 8.132563))
Dodge(DR) = 1 / ((.288716) + (.117552))
Dodge(DR) = 1 / 0.406268
Dodge(DR) = 2.461429

Meaning his 8.132563% dodge from 320 dodge rating actually works out to be 2.461429% dodge after DRs.

Similarly, for Parry:

Parry(DR) = 1 / ((1 / 5) + (0.956 / 1.809495))
Parry(DR) = 1 / ((.2) + (.528324))
Parry(DR) = 1 / 0.728324
Parry(DR) = 1.373015

Meaning 1.809495% parry from 89 parry rating works out to be 1.373015% parry after DRs.

For Defense:

Dodge/Parry(DR) = 1 / ((1 / 3.463600) + (0.956 / 5.64))
Dodge/Parry(DR) = 1 / ((.288716) + (0.169503))
Dodge/Parry(DR) = 1 / 0.458219
Dodge/Parry(DR) = 2.182362%

Meaning 5.64% Dodge/Parry from 694 defense rating [141 defense] works out to be 2.182362% Dodge/Parry after DRs.

However, from Recount parses, the actual Dodge/Parry numbers appear to be much closer to what the Character Sheet reports (22.51% dodge instead of the projected ~13.10% dodge, 16.68% parry instead of the projected ~13.55% parry). The Character Sheet mentions that the percentages listed are "Before Diminishing Returns", but those values do appear to be accurate in actual testing.

Is there something I missed in my calculation, or do DRs only kick in after a certain value, or are DRs simply not active right now?

I'm sorry to ask this if its already been covered, but do we know of the C and 1/C values for miss? They're not in the OP and searches prove difficult with "miss" as a keyword

They're not known as your post-DR miss chance isn't shown on your character screen. And determining it with any reasonable accuracy through experiments is *alot* of work.

The Miss Cap

After hours of research and testing, I'm confident enough to say that the miss cap for Warriors(and most likely Paladins and Death Knights) is 16.

I'm going to briefly explain the final few rounds of testing I did to arrive at this conclusion, every round has a screenshot that shows the gear I used, mobs, mob level, my avoidance stats, combat table calculation using best guess miss cap, and Recount stats.

---

Test method design

Goal: Obtain the chance to be missed% after DR

How are we going to do that? Just getting hit millions of times will not give you exact numbers.
The only reliable way is to test for block cap, when you are block capped you can not be hit, the only outcomes of a mob swing are missed, dodge, parry, and block.
When you are exactly block capped, because we know the exact dodge, parry chance after DR and block chance, we can calculate the true missed chance after DR.
The key word is exactly, meaning to gearup as close to block cap as possible but not over it.
Since I'm also the author of TankPoints, I first modify the misscap TankPoints code to my current best guess, choose gear according to this guess and start testing if the guess was good or not, loop again with a better guess.

I chose level 7 mobs for my tests, I'm a level 60 warrior, so that gives me 10.6% Block, 10.6% Dodge, 10.6% Parry, and 10.6% Missed, for a total of +42.4% avoidance from level.

Test 0
Goal: Does avoidance from level difference does not suffer from DR?
How: Choose the right amount of gear so I would be under the block cap if avoidance from level difference suffers from DR, but over the block cap if it didn't, and see if I would get hit or not.
Results: I did not get a normal hit after 500 or so hits
Conclusion: Avoidance from level difference does not suffer from DR.

Test 1
Image: http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7...9222135yj2.jpg
How: Gear up to 100.08%. As shown in Combat Table in the image, Block is capped by 0.08% so we are at 100.8%. Miss in the Combat Table is calculated assuming a miss cap of 20%, if this assumption is correct, I will not get hit.
Results: I got hit 3 times in 2552 swings, about 0.11%
Conclusion: The miss cap is lower then 20%.

Test 2
Image: http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/877...9232535ht4.jpg
How: Add about 0.09% more avoidance to my gear, and test again. Assuming a miss cap of 17% this time, I should only have a hit chance of 0.01%.
Results: I got hit 4 times in 5044 swings, about 0.07%
Conclusion: The miss cap is lower then 17%.

Test 3
Image: http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3...9004707xb3.jpg
How: Assuming a miss cap of 16% this time, I managed to gear myself to 99.99876% avoidance, meaning I'll only get hit once every 80000 swings on average if the 16% miss cap assumption is true.
Results: I got hit 0 times in 8289 swings, I had to stop here because my shield was at 2% durability.
Conclusion: I'm either already block capped, or very very close. Need to do more tests.

Test 4
Image: http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2...9010110bj4.jpg
How: Still assuming a miss cap of 16%, I managed to lower my avoidance by 0.025% to 99.973%, meaning I'll get hit once every 3700 swings on average.
Results: I got 1 hit in 1639 swings so I stopped
Conclusion: I was very close to the block cap in Test 3, because I got hit by lowering my avoidance my a tiny 0.025%.

Test 5
Image: http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2...9021149qk1.jpg
How: Do more tests with the same gear as Test 3, with a theoretical avoidance of 99.99876%.
Results: I got hit 0 times in 9656 swings, shield durability 1%.
Conclusion: I think 16% miss cap is preety good

Test 6
Image: http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2...9025517hz4.jpg
How: I managed to lower my avoidance by a wee bit of 0.005% to 99.99311%, meaning I'll going get hit once every 14513 swings on average.
Results: I got 1 hit in 6388 swings so I stopped
Conclusion: By lowering my avoidance by only 0.005% I got a hit, meaning Test 3 and 5 are very close to block cap

Test 7
Image: http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3...9035848so7.jpg
How: Do more tests with the same gear as Test 3, with a theoretical avoidance of 99.99876%.
Results: I got hit 0 times in 8381 swings
Conclusion: I'm going to say 16% miss cap works preety well.

---

The lastest alpha version of RatingBuster and TankPoints are now updated with a 16% hit cap for calculations.

At 540 Defense, your chance to be missed is 9.288%.

With the new miss cap, I redid my TTL calculations with real world stats:

Expertise confuses me.

I'm aware I need 26 Expertise to nullify dodges, but how much Expertise do I really have?


- also, is Rage of Rivendare (5 expertise) included in those numbers?

I'm making a spreadsheet to mess around with itemization for my 80 Dwarf Warrior and am stuck on a problem.

The armory currently shows my defense skill at 414 (+83 defense rating items currently equipped).

According to the armory, this translates to +.56% to Block/Dodge/Parry giving me a total of 10.56% chance to block.

for the LIFE of me, I can't figure out how this number is derived. I figure 5% is base, I get an additional 5% for 5 points in Shield Specialization.... but how the heck do I get .56% from my 414 defense skill?

I've read through WowWiki and the beginning of this thread... and will admit in advance to being somewhat thick when iot comes to math.... but what should I be putting in my sheet to calculate the increase from defense skill?

Thanks a ton in advance for any help someone can provide.

You get 400 defense skill for being lvl 80 with capped defense skill. It's the 14 additional skill that you get from def rating, which gives you the extra 0.56% chance to block/parry/dodge/miss. 1 def skill gives 0.04% each of block/parry/dodge/miss.

The character screen tooltip is correct, the mouseover tooltip is broken.
The "9" and "37" on the mouseover should be swapped.

You have 9 Expertise (not 37).
That means 2.25% dodge/parry reduction.
You have 37 Expertise rating (not 9), which gives you 4 Expertise.

The difference between the 9 Expertise you have and the 4 Expertise from rating is 5 Expertise, which is what Rage of Rivendare gives you.


To cap, you need 26 Expertise. That's 5 from talents and 21 from rating.
That means 173 Expertise rating from gear/buffs to cap, rounded up from 172.15.

[Edit]: Apparently, just the Armoury tooltips are buggy. The in-game ones are correct.

To be more specific, all of the in-game character tooltips are correct. The armory tooltips are wrong, which is what that screenshot is depicting. I think you will find that it makes much more sense if you look in-game.

Thanks alot
Yeah, i was at work when i found that, so didn't have the chance to check ingame. Appreciate the answers.

3.4636+(185-78)*0.0136+1/(1/88.129021+0.956/(8*0.04+78*0.0136))=6.339861606

It deserves to be said, regardless of normal thread policy:

well done. Thank you.

That is exactly what I was looking for... Thanks! Also, thanks for all the work you have done to date... keep it up!

For those that might want to see the formulas I used (you can get the MathCad file here ):

The expertise tooltip on the character sheet shows expertise percentage being rounded down to the nearest .25%, when in reality testing shows that the tooltip is wrong and the percentage is based on exact expertise rating with no rounding.

I tested this with Recount on a training dummy using 212 expertise rating. The tooltip displays 212 expertise rating as 6.25%. I compiled a sample of 20000 swings and from those 20000 swings only 7 of them were dodged. That is a .035% chance to be dodged. If the 6.25% on the tooltip was accurate, the test should instead show approximately .25% chance to be dodged.


Link to Recount test data:
http://i39.tinypic.com/nbuam8.jpg

Well if you calculate the expertise rating you have got (212) into a percentage (divide by number given in opening post) you end up with 6,46538...% and if you substract it from 6,5% you end up with 0,0346% which is quite the value you showed.

I'm trying this for myself but you seem to have made quite a discovery. All those tricky math evaluating expertise is going to be wasted work.

My testing is not quite at the level as yours but it points in the same direction.

Not to put a damper on your analysis, but expertise not truncating was discovered and verified in another thread recently:

http://elitistjerks.com/1092985-post73.html
http://elitistjerks.com/1093112-post75.html