Combat Ratings at level 85 (Cataclysm) - Page 17

Rhî · 09/23/08, 3:50 PM

Defense	Dodge %	Parry %	Dodge Rating	Parry Rating
350	6,4521999359	5	0	0	79
350	8,5035847515869	5	38	0	79
350	21,867946624756	5	338	0	79
350	8,7512865066528	5	0	0	135
350	8,5910511016846	5	0	0	131
350	6,4521999359	6,9091701507568	0	45	79
367	7,1578016281128	5,7006936073303	0	0	79
377	7,5676093101501	6,1031923294067	0	0	79

It's not much. I hope it can help. Write, if you need more data. Defense, Dodge and Agility should not be a problem. Parry rating is rare.

Scurn · 09/23/08, 4:56 PM

How does this diminishing returns affect activated abilities like Evasion? Does it add 50% on top of the current value or the base and then the effects from gear are diminished? I'm assuming that the 50% isn't diminished itself which could also be the case. I'm not sure if any other class has a built in avoidance increase like that other than Lichborne but miss is hard to test like you said above.

Whitetooth · 09/23/08, 11:44 PM

Thanks to the paladin data from Orbitus and Rhî, I've been able to varify that the cap values for both dodge and parry for paladins are the same as that of warriors.

sp00n · 09/24/08, 7:11 AM

Some data points from my rogue. Hope they are not too chaotic.
Also I had zero items with parry rating, so increase in parry is only due to defense.

Agility only

Defense	Agility	Dod Rate	Dodge %	Parry %
350	163	0	7.5600004196167	9
350	207	0	9.7531709671021	9
350	232	0	10.9700965881350	9
350	265	0	12.5451583862300	9
350	297	0	14.0395107269290	9
350	353	0	16.5795726776120	9
350	385	0	17.9898128509520	9
350	440	0	20.3467864990230	9
350	474	0	21.7631397247310	9
350	546	0	24.6649265289310	9
350	587	0	26.2607574462890	9
350	587	0	26.2607574462890	9
350	609	0	27.1008186340330	9
350	627	0	27.7799091339110	9

Dodge Rating & Agility

Defense	Agility	Dod Rate	Dodge %	Parry %	Note
350	163	0	7.5600004196167	9
350	163	38	9.5645303726196	9
350	182	57	11.4627943038940	9
350	207	73	13.4434757232670	9
350	207	373	26.8053054809570	9	Moroes' Trinket
350	207	73	63.4434776306150	9	Evasion
350	207	373	76.8053054809570	9	Moroes + Evasion

Defense & Agility

Defense	Agility	Dod Rate	Dodge %	Parry %
350	163	0	7.5600004196167	9
355	199	0	9.5565271377563	9.2021484375000
361	263	0	12.8653888702390	9.4439859390259

Defense & Dodge & Agility

Defense	Agility	Dod Rate	Dodge %	Parry %	Note
350	163	0	7.5600004196167	9
356	175	25	9.7150039672852	9.2425098419189
360	223	40	12.9347238540650	9.4037351608276
367	287	57	16.9279708862300	9.6850204467773
367	287	95	18.6843452453610	9.6850204467773
367	306	114	20.3504829406740	9.6850204467773
367	331	130	22.0919513702390	9.6850204467773
374	395	130	24.8851947784420	9.9652166366577
379	431	130	26.4372673034670	10.1646947860720
379	479	130	28.2508735656740	10.1646947860720
379	511	130	29.4313697814940	10.1646947860720
379	562	130	31.2673358917240	10.1646947860720
379	633	130	33.7343673706050	10.1646947860720
379	681	130	35.3463897705080	10.1646947860720
379	718	130	36.5595855712890	10.1646947860720
379	772	130	38.2859992980960	10.1646947860720
379	794	130	38.9747772216800	10.1646947860720
379	809	130	39.4396820068360	10.1646947860720	+Scroll of Agility
379	829	130	40.0536956787110	10.1646947860720	+Warp Burger
379	794	430	98.0570907592770	10.1646947860720	Evasion + Trinket without Scroll & Food
379	829	430	98.9718322753910	10.1646947860720	Evasion + Trinket with Scroll & Food
379	864	130	41.1124114990230	10.1646947860720	+Major Agility
379	864	430	99.8707809448240	10.1646947860720	Evasion + Trinket with Scroll, Food & Elixir
379	984	430	102.838478088380	10.1646947860720	+1x Mongoose & Evasion + Trinket

// Edit
I added Elixir of Major Agility and a Mongoose proc. The game shows values above 100%, even in the character sheet:

Selmarix · 09/24/08, 7:47 AM

Originally Posted by sp00n

Dodge Rating & Agility

Defense	Agility	Dod Rate	Dodge %	Parry %	Note
350	163	0	7.5600004196167	9
350	163	38	9.5645303726196	9
350	182	57	11.4627943038940	9
350	207	73	13.4434757232670	9
350	207	373	26.8053054809570	9	Moroes' Trinket
350	207	73	63.4434776306150	9	Evasion
350	207	373	76.8053054809570	9	Moroes + Evasion

Both with and without Moroes' Trinket Evasion seems to add exactly 50%. So Evasion is a non diminished flat addition similar to base dodge.
That means unlike the Sunwell Radiance solution, this solution to avoidance allows rogues to evasion tank.

Whitetooth · 09/24/08, 9:14 AM

Originally Posted by sp00n

Some data points from my rogue. Hope they are not too chaotic.
Also I had zero items with parry rating, so increase in parry is only due to defense.

Thanks for all the data, I've been able to calculate both caps for dodge and parry, but I've also found something odd in here.

First,

Dodge Cap $C_d =$ 145.5604076
Parry Cap $C_p =$ 144.9275362319

Dodge% per Agi = 0.0483805

Now, in TBC we have 0.04% dodge/parry per Defense, and 0.05284524% dodge per dodge rating at level 70.
I tried to use those values at first but that did not work out, so I had to calculate them like dodge per agi.

Lv70 Rogue	WotLK	TBC	ratio
Dodge per Defense	0.038705	0.04	0.967625
Parry per Defense	0.038705	0.04	0.967625
Dodge per Dodge Rating	0.05113465	0.052845524	0.967625

I wonder whats the Dodge% per Agi for a 70 rogue in TBC, can you run 2 data points for dodge/agi with 13 decimal places on live?

sp00n · 09/24/08, 9:15 AM

I added an Elixir of Major Agilty and a Mongoose Proc above.

Mongoose adds 120 agility. Without it (and an activated Moroes' Trinket + Evasion) I have a 99.87% dodge chance. With the added 120 agility, I'm at 102.84%. This means, those 120 agility are worth only 2.97% dodge, or 40.44 agility is needed for 1% dodge at that level.
The normal conversion rate at level 70 for a rogue is 20 agility per 1% dodge. It more than doubled.

sp00n · 09/24/08, 10:30 AM

Originally Posted by Whitetooth

I wonder whats the Dodge% per Agi for a 70 rogue in TBC, can you run 2 data points for dodge/agi with 13 decimal places on live?

Defense	Agility	Dodge Rate	Dodge %	Parry
Live:
350	166	0	8.710000038147	5
350	639	0	32.360000610352	5
PTR:
350	163	0	7.5600004196167	9
350	627	0	27.7799091339110	9

On Live I have skilled Vitality for 2% increased agility, additionally there is a 1% dodge bonus from Quickness. Both have been removed/replaced on the PTR.
On PTR, I have skilled for an additional 4% parry.

Additionally I have made a test with avoidance gear (but without consumables):

Defense	Agility	Dodge Rate	Dodge %	Parry	Note
Live:
379	810	130	48.939918518066	6.1599998474121
379	810	430	114.79357147217	6.1599998474121	Evasion + Trinket
PTR:
379	794	130	38.9747772216800	10.1646947860720

Interestingly, parry through defense seems to be slightly higher than on live if you subtract the 4% through talents.

Muphrid · 09/24/08, 10:58 AM

I think, as a consequence of the dodge and parry diminishing returns, you actually get more benefit from the stats for a very limited time. This was something I noticed (and found strange as well) in the other data sets.

Whitetooth · 09/24/08, 1:09 PM

With the new data gather by sp00n, it appears that my original assumption that $k$ =0.956 is constant is not true.

$\frac{1}{x'} = \frac{1}{c}+\frac{k}{x}}$

So far we only know that for a 70 rogue, $k$ =0.988, and for a 60 warrior, $k$ =0.956

Does k change with class or level? I think I need to go back and take a closer look, more test data from different classes and levels would be helpful.

Edit: Checked again with data from 80 warrior, and confirmed that $k$ =0.956 for warriors.
It seems that k is also dependent on class but not level.

Edit2:
A quick recap on what we know about the DR formula:

$\frac{1}{x'} = \frac{1}{c}+\frac{k}{x}}$

$x'$ is the diminished stat before converting to IEEE754.
$x$ is the stat before diminishing returns.
$c$ is the cap of the stat, and changes with class.
$k$ is is a value that changes with class.

Warrior and Paladin:
$k$ =0.956
$C_d=\frac{1}{0.011347}=88.1290208866$
$C_p=\frac{1}{0.021275}=47.0035252644$

Druid:
$k$ =0.972
$C_d=\frac{1}{0.008555}=116.8907071888$

Death Knight:
$k$ =0.99356050
$C_d=\frac{1}{0.011347}=88.12902089$
$C_p=\frac{1}{0.021690}=46.10419548$

Rogue:
$k$ =0.988
$C_d=145.5604076$
$C_p=144.9275362319$

sp00n · 09/24/08, 1:24 PM

Maybe there's some connection to the base dodge for the different classes, f.e. as seen on WoWWiki?
This formula seems so complex, they either must have based it on something already present or worked really hard to create it.

Class	Base (D)odge	AGI:D Ratio	D Rating:D Ratio
Druid	-1.87%	14.7059	18.9231
Hunter	-5.45%	25	18.9231
Mage	3.45%	25	18.9231
Paladin	0.65%	25	18.9231
Priest	3.18%	25	18.9231
Rogue	-0.59%	20	18.9231
Shaman	1.67%	25	18.9231
Warlock	2.03%	25	18.9231
Warrior	0.75%	30	18.9231

Whitetooth · 09/24/08, 2:04 PM

I did some testing on my level 80 premade DK, and here are the results:

$C_d=$ 88.12902089

$C_p=$ 46.10419548

$k=$ 0.99356050

Dodge Per Agi=0.01413434

Note: The parry rating from base strength does not suffer from DR.

jowyattreides · 09/24/08, 2:48 PM

What's the base dodge chance as a death knight at level 80? I tried to google it but haven't found
any useful information yet.

zimira · 09/24/08, 4:04 PM

May i suggest that you in your example pick dodge and parry numbers that added up are greater then 3,9% since below that you actually get more then expected. It really confused me when the "diminished" number was greater then the starting number.

Rhî · 09/25/08, 5:40 AM

Originally Posted by Whitetooth

I did some testing on my level 80 premade DK, and here are the results:

$C_d=$ 88.12902089

$C_p=$ 46.10419548

$k=$ 0.99356050

Dodge Per Agi=0.01413434

Note: The parry rating from base strength does not suffer from DR.

Do you know the Dodge per Agi ratio for lvl 80 Paladins?