Elitist Jerks Combat Ratings at level 85 (Cataclysm)
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09/26/08, 4:51 AM   #271
Whitetooth
Piston Honda

Orc Warlock

Ner'zhul
I copied 8 premades to 2 accounts, and was able to gather data for 8 classes at level 80.
The death knight dodge/agi values I had were strange and seemed wrong, so I did some more tests and found that the K value used in calculating parry and dodge for death knights were not the same.
Only DKs seem to behave this way, I double checked warriors/paladins and K values were the same for dodge and parry.

Here are the results:
 $K_p$ $C_p$ $1/C_p$ $K_d$ $C_d$ $1/C_d$ Lv80 Dodge/Agi Lv80 Agi/1%Dodge Base Dodge Warrior 0.956 47.003525 0.021275 0.956 88.129021 0.011347 0.0136 73.5294 3.4636 Paladin 0.956 47.003525 0.021275 0.956 88.129021 0.011347 0.0192 52.0833 3.2685 Hunter 0.988 145.560408 0.006870 0.988 145.560408 0.006870 0.0133 75.1880 -5.4500 Rogue 0.988 145.560408 0.006870 0.988 145.560408 0.006870 0.0241 41.4938 -0.5900 Priest 0 0 0 0.983 150.375940 0.006650 0.0192 52.0833 3.1830 Deathknight 0.9935605 46.104195 0.021690 0.956 88.129021 0.011347 0.0136 73.5294 0.7580 Shaman 0 0 0 0.988 145.560408 0.006870 0.0192 52.0833 1.6750 Mage 0 0 0 0.983 150.375940 0.006650 0.0195 51.2821 3.4575 Warlock 0 0 0 0.983 150.375940 0.006650 0.0192 52.0833 2.0350 Druid 0 0 0 0.972 116.890707 0.008555 0.0240 41.6667 4.9510

Edit: I got a 3ed account, calculating hunter/rogue stats now.
Edit2: Added new Hunter and Rogue data.

Last edited by Whitetooth : 09/26/08 at 3:00 PM.

Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US <Bahamut>
Author of RatingBuster

09/26/08, 11:42 AM   #272
Endoscient
King Hippo

Goblin Shaman

Illidan
 Originally Posted by Whitetooth How did I get defense gear with a premade? I took the portal from Dalaran to Shat and bought +4 defense gems from Scryers or Aldor vendors.
Thats a good idea, I totally forgot about those vendor gems. I tried the AH but could only find Agi pieces. So you still need paladin data with defense/dodge/parry?

09/26/08, 11:51 AM   #273
frmorrison
Protector

Ashstrike
Human Paladin

No WoW Account
 Originally Posted by Endoscient Thats a good idea, I totally forgot about those vendor gems. I tried the AH but could only find Agi pieces. So you still need paladin data with defense/dodge/parry?

He wrote "8 classes done, 2 to go: Hunters and Rogues" so I think he is good to go with Paladins .

However, you only get 4 transfers per account, so that is why he is missing two classes.

09/26/08, 11:55 AM   #274
Whitetooth
Piston Honda

Orc Warlock

Ner'zhul
 Originally Posted by Endoscient Thats a good idea, I totally forgot about those vendor gems. I tried the AH but could only find Agi pieces. So you still need paladin data with defense/dodge/parry?
I'm good with paladin data now, thanks, do you have any transfers left for hunter or rogue?

Edit: nvm, I borrowed a 3ed account, doing the last 2 classes now

Last edited by Whitetooth : 09/26/08 at 12:41 PM.

Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US <Bahamut>
Author of RatingBuster

 09/26/08, 3:16 PM #275 Whitetooth Piston Honda     Hotdogee Orc Warlock   Ner'zhul First post updated with final(hopefully) results for all classes. Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US Author of RatingBuster
 09/26/08, 4:33 PM #276 Mijae Don Flamenco   Ankh Tauren Druid   Tichondrius Just to verify, does the Base Dodge listed in your first table include dodge from racial agility? If so, are stat gains on base agility from modifiers like Blessing of Kings affected by DR. So the pre-DR formula would be: defense * 0.04 + (totalAgility - raceAgility) * dodgePerAgi + dodgeRating * dodgePerRating Feral DruidStats spreadsheet - discontinued
 09/26/08, 4:45 PM #277 Whitetooth Piston Honda     Hotdogee Orc Warlock   Ner'zhul Now I have everything I need, its time to implement the DR formula into RatingBuster. But things aren't that straight forward though, RatingBuster was built to work for all levels for all classes, not just level 80s. The problem is we don't have the Dodge/Agi (before DR) value for all levels, so the only way is to calculate it in game. What RatingBuster can get from the WoW API is very limited, these are the values we know or can be calculated easily: $D'$=Total Dodge% after DR $D_r$=Dodge from Defense and Dodge Rating before DR $D_b$=Base dodge (This is what you have with 0 Agility, independent of level, can be looked up in my first post) $A$=Total Agility $A_b$=Base Agility (This is what you have with no gear on) $A_g$=Total Agility - Base Agility Let $d$ be the Dodge/Agi (before DR) value we are going to calculate(this value is constant for a given level and class). $\frac{1}{x'} = \frac{1}{C_d}+\frac{k}{x}}$ $x'=D'-D_b-A_b*d$ $x=A_g*d+D_r$ $\Rightarrow \frac{1}{D'-D_b-A_b*d}=\frac{1}{C_d}+\frac{k}{A_g*d+D_r}=\frac{A_g*d+D_r+C_d*k}{C_d*A_g*d+C_d*D_r}$ $\Rightarrow C_d*A_g*d+C_d*D_r=[(D'-D_b)-A_b*d]*[Ag*d+(D_r+C_d*k)]$ After rearranging the terms, we get an equation of type $a*d^2+b*d+c$ where $a=-A_g*A_b$ $b=A_g(D'-D_b)-A_b(D_r+C_d*k)-C_dA_g$ $c=(D'-D_b)(D_r+C_d*k)-C_d*D_r$ $Dodge/Agi=\frac{-b-\sqrt{b^2-4ac}}{2a}$ Last edited by Whitetooth : 09/29/08 at 1:32 AM. Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US Author of RatingBuster
09/26/08, 4:49 PM   #278
Whitetooth
Piston Honda

Orc Warlock

Ner'zhul
 Originally Posted by Mijae Just to verify, does the Base Dodge listed in your first table include dodge from racial agility?
No, BaseDodge is the amount of dodge you have with 0 agility, this value is needed by RatingBuster to calculate the dodge/agi for you, no matter what level you are.

 Originally Posted by Mijae If so, are stat gains on base agility from modifiers like Blessing of Kings affected by DR.
I haven't tested this so I don't know.

Edit: I just tested Kings and its affected by DR.

 Originally Posted by Mijae So the pre-DR formula would be: defense * 0.04 + (totalAgility - raceAgility) * dodgePerAgi + dodgeRating * dodgePerRating
This seems correct to me.

Last edited by Whitetooth : 09/26/08 at 5:13 PM.

Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US <Bahamut>
Author of RatingBuster

 09/26/08, 4:50 PM #279 • frmorrison Protector     Ashstrike Human Paladin   No WoW Account Interesting, that Dodge/Agi formula you have there the general formula to solve the quadratic equation, except the first part is - b then + or - the square root.
09/27/08, 4:47 AM   #280
drumbum
King Hippo

Human Rogue

Sargeras
 Originally Posted by frmorrison Interesting, that Dodge/Agi formula you have there the general formula to solve the quadratic equation, except the first part is - b then + or - the square root.
That's because he was solving a quadratic equation that he derived (because the diminishing returns that Blizzard implemented has been found to follow a 2nd order polynomial). And the 2nd solution is thrown out because it is extraneous (gives a negative value).

Last edited by drumbum : 09/27/08 at 5:07 AM.

 09/27/08, 8:43 AM #281 Whitetooth Piston Honda     Hotdogee Orc Warlock   Ner'zhul The DK values for parry didn't seem right, so I did more testing and found that my original assumption that parry rating from base str are not affect by DR is wrong, it turns out they do. So when I got this right and redid the calculations, k and c values for parry turned out to be exactly the same was warriors and paladins. First post updated again. Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US Author of RatingBuster
 09/27/08, 11:47 PM #282 landsoul Myrmidon Champion     Landsoul Worgen Warrior   Alterac Mountains so what is little "d" stand for?
09/28/08, 5:06 AM   #283
koaschten
In the rear with the gear!

Troll Rogue

Khaz'goroth (EU)
 Originally Posted by landsoul so what is little "d" stand for?
 Let $d$ be the Dodge/Agi value we are going to calculate.
Should read a bit more thoroughly.

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 09/28/08, 3:19 PM #284 landsoul Myrmidon Champion     Landsoul Worgen Warrior   Alterac Mountains Sorry I missed it, so basically dodge%(from agility) = agility * f(x) where f(x) = [-b-sqrt(b^2-4ac)]/2a and is a representation of how much other dodge you have. f(x) gets smaller at some rate f'(x) ??? This concept can also be applied to other stats such as dodge rating, which has a different formula probably? I would hope that dodge talents and base dodge aren't affected by the recalculation? Do they increase the cap that diminished dodge approaches? How hard would it be to find total dodge% given from a for example 30 agility at x, y, z dodge levels? Basically what people would like to see are plug and chug conversion formulas. Something that people can use without having to be an upper level math major to understand. Write a program what inputs for what you want to calculate an increase of (30 agility to dodge, 20 parry rating to parry, etc), the player's class, and avoidance levels, and outputs the total gain for the prompted stat.
 09/28/08, 4:02 PM #285 Whitetooth Piston Honda     Hotdogee Orc Warlock   Ner'zhul I've implemented the final results into StatLogicLib r82109, this is RatingBuster's core, where all major math calculations are done. * baseDodge = StatLogic:GetBaseDodge([class]) added new values for wotlk * dodgePerAgi = StatLogic:GetDodgePerAgi() now implements the formula derived in post #277 for wotlk * modDodgeBeforeDR, drFreeDodge = StatLogic:GetDodgeChanceBeforeDR() Calculates your current Dodge%(modDodgeBeforeDR + drFreeDodge) before diminishing returns. * modParryBeforeDR, drFreeParry = StatLogic:GetParryChanceBeforeDR() Calculates your current Parry%(modParryBeforeDR + drFreeParry) before diminishing returns. * avoidanceAfterDR = StatLogic:GetAvoidanceAfterDR(avoidanceType, avoidanceBeforeDR[, class]) Calculates the avoidance you get after diminishing returns. * gainAfterDR = StatLogic:GetAvoidanceGainAfterDR(gainBeforeDR) Calculates the avoidance gain after diminishing returns for gainBeforeDR with player's current stats. As for RatingBuster itself, r82110 has DR support for Dodge% and Parry% differance values in StatSummary, and an option to turn DR calculations off, only works in wow 3.0.1 or above. Last edited by Whitetooth : 09/30/08 at 4:56 AM. Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US Author of RatingBuster

 Elitist Jerks Combat Ratings at level 85 (Cataclysm)
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