Elitist Jerks Combat Ratings at level 85 (Cataclysm)

 12/05/08, 8:00 PM #331 Excalibur_Z Glass Joe   Pilum Murloc Mage   Cenarion Circle Are DRs even enabled at this time? Our L80 MT has 541 defense (5.64% dodge+parry), 320 dodge rating (8.132563% dodge), 89 parry rating (1.809495% parry). According to the formula: Dodge(DR) = 1 / ((1 / 3.463600 ) + (0.956 / 8.132563)) Dodge(DR) = 1 / ((.288716) + (.117552)) Dodge(DR) = 1 / 0.406268 Dodge(DR) = 2.461429 Meaning his 8.132563% dodge from 320 dodge rating actually works out to be 2.461429% dodge after DRs. Similarly, for Parry: Parry(DR) = 1 / ((1 / 5) + (0.956 / 1.809495)) Parry(DR) = 1 / ((.2) + (.528324)) Parry(DR) = 1 / 0.728324 Parry(DR) = 1.373015 Meaning 1.809495% parry from 89 parry rating works out to be 1.373015% parry after DRs. For Defense: Dodge/Parry(DR) = 1 / ((1 / 3.463600) + (0.956 / 5.64)) Dodge/Parry(DR) = 1 / ((.288716) + (0.169503)) Dodge/Parry(DR) = 1 / 0.458219 Dodge/Parry(DR) = 2.182362% Meaning 5.64% Dodge/Parry from 694 defense rating [141 defense] works out to be 2.182362% Dodge/Parry after DRs. However, from Recount parses, the actual Dodge/Parry numbers appear to be much closer to what the Character Sheet reports (22.51% dodge instead of the projected ~13.10% dodge, 16.68% parry instead of the projected ~13.55% parry). The Character Sheet mentions that the percentages listed are "Before Diminishing Returns", but those values do appear to be accurate in actual testing. Is there something I missed in my calculation, or do DRs only kick in after a certain value, or are DRs simply not active right now?
 12/06/08, 8:23 AM #332 drumbum King Hippo   Drumbum Human Rogue   Sargeras You are making several errors while calculating diminishing returns. For starters, you sum the dodge and parry gained from all sources first, then diminish these values. (That is, dodge rating, defense, etc., are not individually diminished.) Also, C is the value (different for each class) from the lookup table on the first post of this thread, not the base dodge or parry chance. If the only thing you are truly interested in is to find out what your actual dodge and parry chances are, the easiest way is probably to install the TankPoints addon written by Whitetooth and let it do all the calculations for you.
 12/09/08, 3:22 AM #333 pope master Von Kaiser   popestr Dwarf Paladin   Firetree I'm sorry to ask this if its already been covered, but do we know of the C and 1/C values for miss? They're not in the OP and searches prove difficult with "miss" as a keyword
12/09/08, 4:14 AM   #334
Rannasha
Piston Honda

Tauren Druid

Draenor (EU)
 Originally Posted by pope master I'm sorry to ask this if its already been covered, but do we know of the C and 1/C values for miss? They're not in the OP and searches prove difficult with "miss" as a keyword
They're not known as your post-DR miss chance isn't shown on your character screen. And determining it with any reasonable accuracy through experiments is *alot* of work.

 01/14/09, 7:06 AM #335 Whitetooth Piston Honda     Hotdogee Orc Warlock   Ner'zhul The Miss Cap After hours of research and testing, I'm confident enough to say that the miss cap $C_m$ for Warriors(and most likely Paladins and Death Knights) is 16. I'm going to briefly explain the final few rounds of testing I did to arrive at this conclusion, every round has a screenshot that shows the gear I used, mobs, mob level, my avoidance stats, combat table calculation using best guess miss cap, and Recount stats. Test method design Goal: Obtain the chance to be missed% after DR How are we going to do that? Just getting hit millions of times will not give you exact numbers. The only reliable way is to test for block cap, when you are block capped you can not be hit, the only outcomes of a mob swing are missed, dodge, parry, and block. When you are exactly block capped, because we know the exact dodge, parry chance after DR and block chance, we can calculate the true missed chance after DR. The key word is exactly, meaning to gearup as close to block cap as possible but not over it. Since I'm also the author of TankPoints, I first modify the misscap TankPoints code to my current best guess, choose gear according to this guess and start testing if the guess was good or not, loop again with a better guess. I chose level 7 mobs for my tests, I'm a level 60 warrior, so that gives me 10.6% Block, 10.6% Dodge, 10.6% Parry, and 10.6% Missed, for a total of +42.4% avoidance from level. Test 0 Goal: Does avoidance from level difference does not suffer from DR? How: Choose the right amount of gear so I would be under the block cap if avoidance from level difference suffers from DR, but over the block cap if it didn't, and see if I would get hit or not. Results: I did not get a normal hit after 500 or so hits Conclusion: Avoidance from level difference does not suffer from DR. Test 1 Image: http://img253.imageshack.us/img253/7...9222135yj2.jpg How: Gear up to 100.08%. As shown in Combat Table in the image, Block is capped by 0.08% so we are at 100.8%. Miss in the Combat Table is calculated assuming a miss cap of 20%, if this assumption is correct, I will not get hit. Results: I got hit 3 times in 2552 swings, about 0.11% Conclusion: The miss cap is lower then 20%. Test 2 Image: http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/877...9232535ht4.jpg How: Add about 0.09% more avoidance to my gear, and test again. Assuming a miss cap of 17% this time, I should only have a hit chance of 0.01%. Results: I got hit 4 times in 5044 swings, about 0.07% Conclusion: The miss cap is lower then 17%. Test 3 Image: http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/3...9004707xb3.jpg How: Assuming a miss cap of 16% this time, I managed to gear myself to 99.99876% avoidance, meaning I'll only get hit once every 80000 swings on average if the 16% miss cap assumption is true. Results: I got hit 0 times in 8289 swings, I had to stop here because my shield was at 2% durability. Conclusion: I'm either already block capped, or very very close. Need to do more tests. Test 4 Image: http://img179.imageshack.us/img179/2...9010110bj4.jpg How: Still assuming a miss cap of 16%, I managed to lower my avoidance by 0.025% to 99.973%, meaning I'll get hit once every 3700 swings on average. Results: I got 1 hit in 1639 swings so I stopped Conclusion: I was very close to the block cap in Test 3, because I got hit by lowering my avoidance my a tiny 0.025%. Test 5 Image: http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2...9021149qk1.jpg How: Do more tests with the same gear as Test 3, with a theoretical avoidance of 99.99876%. Results: I got hit 0 times in 9656 swings, shield durability 1%. Conclusion: I think 16% miss cap is preety good Test 6 Image: http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/2...9025517hz4.jpg How: I managed to lower my avoidance by a wee bit of 0.005% to 99.99311%, meaning I'll going get hit once every 14513 swings on average. Results: I got 1 hit in 6388 swings so I stopped Conclusion: By lowering my avoidance by only 0.005% I got a hit, meaning Test 3 and 5 are very close to block cap Test 7 Image: http://img120.imageshack.us/img120/3...9035848so7.jpg How: Do more tests with the same gear as Test 3, with a theoretical avoidance of 99.99876%. Results: I got hit 0 times in 8381 swings Conclusion: I'm going to say 16% miss cap works preety well. The lastest alpha version of RatingBuster and TankPoints are now updated with a 16% hit cap for calculations. At 540 Defense, your chance to be missed is 9.288%. Last edited by Whitetooth : 11/03/09 at 12:37 AM. Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US Author of RatingBuster
 01/14/09, 7:13 AM #336 Whitetooth Piston Honda     Hotdogee Orc Warlock   Ner'zhul With the new miss cap, I redid my TTL calculations with real world stats: Last edited by Whitetooth : 01/20/09 at 10:48 AM. Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US Author of RatingBuster
 01/20/09, 9:03 AM #337 Zungate Von Kaiser   Menaril Blood Elf Priest   Turalyon (EU) Expertise confuses me. I'm aware I need 26 Expertise to nullify dodges, but how much Expertise do I really have? - also, is Rage of Rivendare (5 expertise) included in those numbers? Last edited by Zungate : 01/20/09 at 9:13 AM.
 01/20/09, 11:00 AM #338 ildon Collateral Damage     Nerodius Undead Priest   Whisperwind 37 is the expertise rating. It's giving you 4 expertise skill, and rage of rivendare is giving 5 expertise skill, totaling 9 expertise skill. Talents are always add to base expertise and not expertise rating. Items (should) only ever give expertise rating and not base expertise. Expertise rating->expertise->reduced % dodge/parry is analogous to defense rating->defense skill->increased % dodge/parry/block/miss. ( . Y . ) ( . BUTT . ) <3
 01/20/09, 2:33 PM #339 Wazoo Glass Joe   Drathius Dwarf Warrior   Maelstrom Converting Defense Skill to Dodge/Block/Parry % I'm making a spreadsheet to mess around with itemization for my 80 Dwarf Warrior and am stuck on a problem. The armory currently shows my defense skill at 414 (+83 defense rating items currently equipped). According to the armory, this translates to +.56% to Block/Dodge/Parry giving me a total of 10.56% chance to block. for the LIFE of me, I can't figure out how this number is derived. I figure 5% is base, I get an additional 5% for 5 points in Shield Specialization.... but how the heck do I get .56% from my 414 defense skill? I've read through WowWiki and the beginning of this thread... and will admit in advance to being somewhat thick when iot comes to math.... but what should I be putting in my sheet to calculate the increase from defense skill? Thanks a ton in advance for any help someone can provide.
 01/20/09, 2:54 PM #340 Astrylian Rawr     Celestrylian Night Elf Monk   Stormrage You get 400 defense skill for being lvl 80 with capped defense skill. It's the 14 additional skill that you get from def rating, which gives you the extra 0.56% chance to block/parry/dodge/miss. 1 def skill gives 0.04% each of block/parry/dodge/miss. Rawr!
01/20/09, 3:26 PM   #341
Roywyn
Bald Bull

Roywyn
Gnome Mage

No WoW Account (EU)
 Originally Posted by Zungate Expertise confuses me. I'm aware I need 26 Expertise to nullify dodges, but how much Expertise do I really have? - also, is Rage of Rivendare (5 expertise) included in those numbers?
The character screen tooltip is correct, the mouseover tooltip is broken.
The "9" and "37" on the mouseover should be swapped.

You have 9 Expertise (not 37).
That means 2.25% dodge/parry reduction.
You have 37 Expertise rating (not 9), which gives you 4 Expertise.

The difference between the 9 Expertise you have and the 4 Expertise from rating is 5 Expertise, which is what Rage of Rivendare gives you.

To cap, you need 26 Expertise. That's 5 from talents and 21 from rating.
That means 173 Expertise rating from gear/buffs to cap, rounded up from 172.15.

: Apparently, just the Armoury tooltips are buggy. The in-game ones are correct.

Last edited by Roywyn : 01/21/09 at 6:49 AM.

Chaotic Meta Gems in Cataclysm: http://elitistjerks.com/f75/t106009-...2/#post1794256

DPS spec and class comparison in Naxxramas gear: http://code.google.com/p/simulationc...i/SampleOutput
The Blue Bar and you - the complete Fire Mage 2.4 mana compendium: http://elitistjerks.com/658230-post3191.html

And [Timbal's Focusing Crystal] doesn't proc on AM.
Neither does [The Egg of Mortal Essence] since 3.1.

 01/20/09, 10:59 PM #342 drumbum King Hippo   Drumbum Human Rogue   Sargeras To be more specific, all of the in-game character tooltips are correct. The armory tooltips are wrong, which is what that screenshot is depicting. I think you will find that it makes much more sense if you look in-game.
 01/21/09, 2:37 AM #343 Zungate Von Kaiser   Menaril Blood Elf Priest   Turalyon (EU) Thanks alot Yeah, i was at work when i found that, so didn't have the chance to check ingame. Appreciate the answers.
 02/09/09, 8:13 AM #344 MiklaDfar Glass Joe   Mikla Tauren Hunter   Burning Legion I am trying to come up to speed on the game mechanics and starting by trying to match all the stats in the Character Info screen. I have most of them worked out, but I am not sure about dodge. I looked through most of the posts on the forum related to dodge, but I am still confused. Right now i have: lvl 80, Tauren Death Knight 3.46% Base Dodge 0.00% From Gear 0.35% From Defense (9) 2.52% From Agility (185 total, 78 from gear) ------- 6.33% Total (Character Info says 6.34%) I know that is close, but I am not sure I am doing it right. Based on what I have read, it appears I should only be using the 78 from agility, but that would make the total to low. Am I missing something? You can check out my character at the armory Sorry if this is a newbie question or has been answered before. If it has been answered somewhere, please let me know where. Thanks.
02/10/09, 3:02 AM   #345
Whitetooth
Piston Honda

Orc Warlock

Ner'zhul
 Originally Posted by mike@stelmat.net I am trying to come up to speed on the game mechanics and starting by trying to match all the stats in the Character Info screen. I have most of them worked out, but I am not sure about dodge. I looked through most of the posts on the forum related to dodge, but I am still confused. Right now i have: lvl 80, Tauren Death Knight 3.46% Base Dodge 0.00% From Gear 0.35% From Defense (9) 2.52% From Agility (185 total, 78 from gear) ------- 6.33% Total (Character Info says 6.34%) I know that is close, but I am not sure I am doing it right. Based on what I have read, it appears I should only be using the 78 from agility, but that would make the total to low. Am I missing something? You can check out my character at the armory Sorry if this is a newbie question or has been answered before. If it has been answered somewhere, please let me know where. Thanks.
3.4636+(185-78)*0.0136+1/(1/88.129021+0.956/(8*0.04+78*0.0136))=6.339861606

Hotdogee@Ner'zhul US <Bahamut>
Author of RatingBuster

 Elitist Jerks Combat Ratings at level 85 (Cataclysm)