Elitist Jerks Combat Ratings at level 85 (Cataclysm)

05/25/09, 3:36 AM   #466
Prinsesa
Bald Bull

Echo Isles
 Conclusion You can only remove armor up to the armor penetration effectiveness cap of (debuffed armor + 15232.5)/3 and any penetration after 100% tooltip is ineffective.
Raid boss armor = 10,643

Debuffed armor = 10,643 * (1 - (Sunder + Faerie Fire))
Debuffed armor = 10,643 * (0.75)
Debuffed armor = 7982.25

Effectiveness Cap = (debuffed armor + 15232.5) / 3
Effectiveness Cap = (7982.25 + 15232.5) / 3
Effectiveness Cap = 7738.25

Minimum Armor = debuffed armor - effectiveness cap
Minimum Armor = 7982.25 - 7738.25
Minimum Armor = 244, which is 1.58% DR against a level 80 attacker

Am I doing this correctly?

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

05/25/09, 4:32 AM   #467
hellord
Absolute Arms

Orc Warrior

Hellscream (EU)
 Originally Posted by Prinsesa Raid boss armor = 10,643 Debuffed armor = 10,643 * (1 - Sunder) * (1- Faerie Fire) Debuffed armor = 10,643 * (0.76) Debuffed armor = 8088,68 Effectiveness Cap = (debuffed armor + 15232.5) / 3 Effectiveness Cap = (8088,68 + 15232.5) / 3 Effectiveness Cap = 7773,727 Minimum Armor = debuffed armor - effectiveness cap Minimum Armor = 8089 - 7774 Minimum Armor = 315, which is 2.026% DR against a level 80 attacker Am I doing this correctly?
Sunder and FF stack multiplicatively.

ArP Whore

05/25/09, 6:48 PM   #468
MasterMace101
Glass Joe

Night Elf Warrior

Andorhal
 Originally Posted by Prinsesa Originally Posted by Prinsesa View Post Raid boss armor = 10,643 Debuffed armor = 10,643 * (1 - Sunder) * (1- Faerie Fire) Debuffed armor = 10,643 * (0.76) Debuffed armor = 8088,68 Effectiveness Cap = (debuffed armor + 15232.5) / 3 Effectiveness Cap = (8088,68 + 15232.5) / 3 Effectiveness Cap = 7773,727 Minimum Armor = debuffed armor - effectiveness cap Minimum Armor = 8089 - 7774 Minimum Armor = 315, which is 2.026% DR against a level 80 attacker Am I doing this correctly?

Armor Reduction Cap = 100 - 2.026 = 97.974%
Armor Penetration Rating Cap = 97.974 * 12.3216 = 1207.196

05/26/09, 5:18 AM   #469
hellord
Absolute Arms

Orc Warrior

Hellscream (EU)
 Originally Posted by MasterMace101 So by your Math Armor Reduction Cap = 100 - 2.026 = 97.974% Armor Penetration Rating Cap = 97.974 * 12.3216 = 1207.196
No.
Armor Penetration Rating Cap = 100% = 1232
Armor reduction cap at 100% ArP = 7774 vs 8089

ArP Whore

 05/27/09, 5:25 AM #470 Glory Von Kaiser   Zeraleen Orc Warrior   Gilneas (EU) Did somebody a test with 100% Arp and 5x SA + FF + Shattering Throw. Armor should go negative again, if possible. Arp Effectivness Cap will be (10643*0.8*0.8*0.95+15232.5)/3=7234.5 Boss Armor is 6470.9 Armor after Arp 6470.9-7234.5=-763.6 Maybe the easiest way to test this on a priest. ~2k armor ~5k effectivness ~3k negative Armor after Arp Last edited by Glory : 05/27/09 at 5:30 AM.
 05/27/09, 6:13 AM #471 a civilian Piston Honda   Stenhaldi Worgen Druid   Sargeras The the arp effectiveness cap is min(armor, (armor+C)/3), not just (armor+C)/3, so armor will never go negative.
 05/27/09, 7:35 AM #472 landsoul Myrmidon Champion     Landsoul Worgen Warrior   Alterac Mountains Hey guys guess what? Blizzard nerfed rage generation some time ago without telling us, and here's the new formula in game: $\text{Rage}= \frac{3}{8}(fs+\frac{7.5d}{c})$ f=1.75,3.5,7 for offhand hit, offhand crit/main hand hit, main hand crit s=base weapon speed c=320.6 d=damage done This is a nerf from what we thought it was: $\text{Rage}= \frac{1}{2}(fs+\frac{7.5d}{c})$ I'm not sure if this is also true for druids, but yeah, sucks =( >--Coaching Site--< Private coaching / Warrior Resource >--Stream--< Tues, Wed, 7 Eastern.
05/27/09, 9:11 AM   #473
Prinsesa
Bald Bull

Echo Isles
 Originally Posted by MasterMace101 So by your Math Armor Reduction Cap = 100 - 2.026 = 97.974% Armor Penetration Rating Cap = 97.974 * 12.3216 = 1207.196
Nope. Armor Penetration stops when your tooltip reads 100%, even if the DR on the effect means it's not actually 100% and there's still some armor left over. The calculations I made was trying to find out just how much armor left over that actually is, which turned out to be 315 armor for a Sundered-and-FF'd raid boss.

The Armor Penetration cap is still 1232 rating.

Thanks to hellord as well for the earlier correction.

By the by, the OP should be updated to reflect 3.1's buff to armor penetration by dividing the old conversion ratios by 1.25

"We do want Sanctuary to be the tanking seal"

- Ghostcrawler

 05/30/09, 7:01 PM #474 landsoul Myrmidon Champion     Landsoul Worgen Warrior   Alterac Mountains The actual rage generation formula is this: as posted by Bornakk: minimum of $\text{rage}=\frac{1}{2}(fs+\frac{7.5d}{c})$ and $\text{rage}=2(\frac{7.5d}{c})$ c is 453.3 f is hit factor, as we know as 1.75, 3.5, 7 s is base weapon speed d is damage dealt For low damage hits, the second equation usually applies. >--Coaching Site--< Private coaching / Warrior Resource >--Stream--< Tues, Wed, 7 Eastern.
 06/05/09, 12:46 PM #475 GravityDK Piston Honda     Gravity Tauren Death Knight   Dath'Remar Hi all, I have written a user guide for TankPoints which you all may find helpful for educating non-serious-theorycrafters. The guide should help a person with decisions like which enchant is better for you, what damage reduction you get in Frost resist gear and more. To save multiple original posts, I am going to maintain this page with the latest version of the file. I am notifying here because this is the authoritive thread on combat ratings. I have PM'd Whitetooth about this too. Last edited by GravityDK : 06/06/09 at 7:44 AM.
06/05/09, 1:28 PM   #476
Astrylian
Rawr

Night Elf Monk

Stormrage
 Originally Posted by GravityDK Hi all, I have written a user guide for TankPoints which you all may find helpful for educating non-serious-theorycrafters. The guide should help a person with decisions like which enchant is better for you, what damage reduction you get in Frost resist gear and more. To save multiple original posts, I am going to maintain this thread at dk.info with the latest version of the file. I am notifying here because this is the authoritive thread on combat ratings. I have PM'd Whitetooth about this too.
TankPoints is an entirely flawed stat, by design. Why are people still using it, and why are you encouraging people to still use it (and posting about it in an accuracy-focused thread like this one)?

Rawr!

06/05/09, 7:20 PM   #477
charriu
Piston Honda

Tauren Druid

Gorgonnash (EU)
 Originally Posted by Astrylian TankPoints is an entirely flawed stat, by design. Why are people still using it, and why are you encouraging people to still use it (and posting about it in an accuracy-focused thread like this one)?
TankPoints happens to also be an addon, which is what he's describing. And by the way, his guide clearly states that the tank points score isn't really useful for anything except seeing if an item is better or worse than something you already have equipped.

Maybe the addon name could be better.

06/05/09, 7:35 PM   #478
Astrylian
Rawr

Night Elf Monk

Stormrage
 Originally Posted by charriu the tank points score isn't really useful for anything except seeing if an item is better or worse than something you already have equipped.
Except that's the problem. People think that, when it's entirely untrue, and completely misleading. I fully realize that TankPoints is an addon.

Rawr!

06/06/09, 2:59 AM   #479
GravityDK
Piston Honda

Tauren Death Knight

Dath'Remar
 Originally Posted by Astrylian Except that's the problem. People think that, when it's entirely untrue, and completely misleading. I fully realize that TankPoints is an addon.
But TankPoints has many other very valuable features, and it just happens to be named after its least-scientific quality. I'd hope my guide also helps people realise that the TankPoints score per se isn't why you get the addon.

 06/06/09, 4:13 AM #480 Boevis Bald Bull     Ex-Boevis Tauren Druid   Lightbringer Isn't the function of "This item is better than this other item" performed by addons such as Rating Buster without the bias of TankPoints (and others that I can't remember). I understand that you can use it to figure out your damage reduction (armor+stance+buffs) and whatnot, but you can also do that with windows calculator or a piece of paper. Is the "non-serious" theorycrafting community so lazy they need an addon to give the same information as wowwiki?

 Elitist Jerks Combat Ratings at level 85 (Cataclysm)