Combat Ratings at level 85 (Cataclysm) - Page 32

Prinsesa · 05/25/09, 3:36 AM

Conclusion
You can only remove armor up to the armor penetration effectiveness cap of (debuffed armor + 15232.5)/3 and any penetration after 100% tooltip is ineffective.

Raid boss armor = 10,643

Debuffed armor = 10,643 * (1 - (Sunder + Faerie Fire))
Debuffed armor = 10,643 * (0.75)
Debuffed armor = 7982.25

Effectiveness Cap = (debuffed armor + 15232.5) / 3
Effectiveness Cap = (7982.25 + 15232.5) / 3
Effectiveness Cap = 7738.25

Minimum Armor = debuffed armor - effectiveness cap
Minimum Armor = 7982.25 - 7738.25
Minimum Armor = 244, which is 1.58% DR against a level 80 attacker

Am I doing this correctly?

hellord · 05/25/09, 4:32 AM

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

Raid boss armor = 10,643

Debuffed armor = 10,643 * (1 - Sunder) * (1- Faerie Fire)
Debuffed armor = 10,643 * (0.76)
Debuffed armor = 8088,68

Effectiveness Cap = (debuffed armor + 15232.5) / 3
Effectiveness Cap = (8088,68 + 15232.5) / 3
Effectiveness Cap = 7773,727

Minimum Armor = debuffed armor - effectiveness cap
Minimum Armor = 8089 - 7774
Minimum Armor = 315, which is 2.026% DR against a level 80 attacker

Am I doing this correctly?

Sunder and FF stack multiplicatively.

MasterMace101 · 05/25/09, 6:48 PM

Originally Posted by Prinsesa

Originally Posted by Prinsesa View Post
Raid boss armor = 10,643

Debuffed armor = 10,643 * (1 - Sunder) * (1- Faerie Fire)
Debuffed armor = 10,643 * (0.76)
Debuffed armor = 8088,68

Effectiveness Cap = (debuffed armor + 15232.5) / 3
Effectiveness Cap = (8088,68 + 15232.5) / 3
Effectiveness Cap = 7773,727

Minimum Armor = debuffed armor - effectiveness cap
Minimum Armor = 8089 - 7774
Minimum Armor = 315, which is 2.026% DR against a level 80 attacker

Am I doing this correctly?

So by your Math

Armor Reduction Cap = 100 - 2.026 = 97.974%
Armor Penetration Rating Cap = 97.974 * 12.3216 = 1207.196

hellord · 05/26/09, 5:18 AM

Originally Posted by MasterMace101

So by your Math

Armor Reduction Cap = 100 - 2.026 = 97.974%
Armor Penetration Rating Cap = 97.974 * 12.3216 = 1207.196

No.
Armor Penetration Rating Cap = 100% = 1232
Armor reduction cap at 100% ArP = 7774 vs 8089

Glory · 05/27/09, 5:25 AM

Did somebody a test with 100% Arp and 5x SA + FF + Shattering Throw. Armor should go negative again, if possible.

Arp Effectivness Cap will be
(10643*0.8*0.8*0.95+15232.5)/3=7234.5

Boss Armor is 6470.9

Armor after Arp 6470.9-7234.5=-763.6

Maybe the easiest way to test this on a priest.
~2k armor
~5k effectivness
~3k negative Armor after Arp

a civilian · 05/27/09, 6:13 AM

The the arp effectiveness cap is min(armor, (armor+C)/3), not just (armor+C)/3, so armor will never go negative.

landsoul · 05/27/09, 7:35 AM

Hey guys guess what? Blizzard nerfed rage generation some time ago without telling us, and here's the new formula in game:

$\text{Rage} = \frac{3}{8}(fs+\frac{7.5d}{c})$
f=1.75,3.5,7 for offhand hit, offhand crit/main hand hit, main hand crit
s=base weapon speed
c=320.6
d=damage done

This is a nerf from what we thought it was:
$\text{Rage} = \frac{1}{2}(fs+\frac{7.5d}{c})$

I'm not sure if this is also true for druids, but yeah, sucks =(

Prinsesa · 05/27/09, 9:11 AM

Originally Posted by MasterMace101

So by your Math

Armor Reduction Cap = 100 - 2.026 = 97.974%
Armor Penetration Rating Cap = 97.974 * 12.3216 = 1207.196

Nope. Armor Penetration stops when your tooltip reads 100%, even if the DR on the effect means it's not actually 100% and there's still some armor left over. The calculations I made was trying to find out just how much armor left over that actually is, which turned out to be 315 armor for a Sundered-and-FF'd raid boss.

The Armor Penetration cap is still 1232 rating.

Thanks to hellord as well for the earlier correction.

By the by, the OP should be updated to reflect 3.1's buff to armor penetration by dividing the old conversion ratios by 1.25

landsoul · 05/30/09, 7:01 PM

The actual rage generation formula is this: as posted by Bornakk:

minimum of
$\text{rage}=\frac{1}{2}(fs+\frac{7.5d}{c})$
and
$\text{rage}=2(\frac{7.5d}{c})$

c is 453.3
f is hit factor, as we know as 1.75, 3.5, 7
s is base weapon speed
d is damage dealt

For low damage hits, the second equation usually applies.

GravityDK · 06/05/09, 12:46 PM

Hi all,
I have written a user guide for TankPoints which you all may find helpful for educating non-serious-theorycrafters. The guide should help a person with decisions like which enchant is better for you, what damage reduction you get in Frost resist gear and more.

To save multiple original posts, I am going to maintain this page with the latest version of the file.

I am notifying here because this is the authoritive thread on combat ratings. I have PM'd Whitetooth about this too.

Astrylian · 06/05/09, 1:28 PM

Originally Posted by GravityDK

Hi all,
I have written a user guide for TankPoints which you all may find helpful for educating non-serious-theorycrafters. The guide should help a person with decisions like which enchant is better for you, what damage reduction you get in Frost resist gear and more.

To save multiple original posts, I am going to maintain this thread at dk.info with the latest version of the file.

I am notifying here because this is the authoritive thread on combat ratings. I have PM'd Whitetooth about this too.

TankPoints is an entirely flawed stat, by design. Why are people still using it, and why are you encouraging people to still use it (and posting about it in an accuracy-focused thread like this one)?

charriu · 06/05/09, 7:20 PM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

TankPoints is an entirely flawed stat, by design. Why are people still using it, and why are you encouraging people to still use it (and posting about it in an accuracy-focused thread like this one)?

TankPoints happens to also be an addon, which is what he's describing. And by the way, his guide clearly states that the tank points score isn't really useful for anything except seeing if an item is better or worse than something you already have equipped.

Maybe the addon name could be better.

Astrylian · 06/05/09, 7:35 PM

Originally Posted by charriu

the tank points score isn't really useful for anything except seeing if an item is better or worse than something you already have equipped.

Except that's the problem. People think that, when it's entirely untrue, and completely misleading. I fully realize that TankPoints is an addon.

GravityDK · 06/06/09, 2:59 AM

Originally Posted by Astrylian

Except that's the problem. People think that, when it's entirely untrue, and completely misleading. I fully realize that TankPoints is an addon.

But TankPoints has many other very valuable features, and it just happens to be named after its least-scientific quality. I'd hope my guide also helps people realise that the TankPoints score per se isn't why you get the addon.

Boevis · 06/06/09, 4:13 AM

Isn't the function of "This item is better than this other item" performed by addons such as Rating Buster without the bias of TankPoints (and others that I can't remember). I understand that you can use it to figure out your damage reduction (armor+stance+buffs) and whatnot, but you can also do that with windows calculator or a piece of paper. Is the "non-serious" theorycrafting community so lazy they need an addon to give the same information as wowwiki?