Ahh yes, that's one thing we can all agree upon, the slaughter of Gnomes, be they mechanical or under the curse of flesh.

I think the 4 Watchers and Thorim before or as the final boss would be a pretty realistic scenario, based off the video that leaked. Obviously there's a Frost section, as well as a Green section, it seems very plausible.

When Loken captures Thorim he makes a special point to tell his minions to take Thorim's Broodmother mount alive and he has 'special plans' for her. I fully expect she'll be an encounter.

Edit: Loken says: Minions! Take my brother and his drake to their new dwellings. Make sure the beast makes it alive. I have special plans for the broodmother.

Maybe an Iron Proto-Drake? Which could be the reward for doing all the 'hard-mode' achievements.

Long thread, I'd like to return to the Wrathgate line. In particular, Varimathras' intentions.

Is there any speculation as to who the "master" Varimathras references in the event is? There is a voice who accuses him of failing.

Now, if I remember correctly, there are rumors that there is an Old God under western Tirisfal (right outside UC). Could Varimathras' betrayal be tied to that presence, therefore tying him into the Old God storyline in Northrend? Or is it more likely to be a member of the Burning Legion (KJ, etc)?

In the commentary DVD that came with the collectors edition, something is mentioned along the lines that the Lich King must be getting his great power from SOMEWHERE, a power which allows him to rebel against the also mighty Burning Legion (which "created" him). I don't have the DVD with me now, though I will try to get the exact wording when I get home.

Isn't it also the case that the Lich King wears a full suit of saronite armor and is infusing it into scourge at the Fleshwerks (the ore which is apparently corrupted by YS).

Just hoping for some clarification.

Also, in another time I would have looked forward to farming "Pure Saronite" equipment as the only defense/offense against the Lich King's chaos damage. Ahh, the old days of MMO raiding. Sick memories of Ssra perhaps.

I'd also like to know about the scourge obsession with saronite if it's tied to YS. Is he usurping some control over the scourge from the Lich King? Is the Lich King working with YS? Are they corrupting the saronite to try to use it against YS?

It's also really unfortunate that it seems like Loken is going to be serving YS. I was hoping the Sargeras route would happen but it just doesn't seem plausible with the tendrils in Storm Peaks + the digging to free "Father" (although it makes much more sense to refer to Sargeras as father vs. Yogg-Saron).

Everything I've read relating to YS/Scourge relations leads me to believe that YS is the one scared of the Scourge/The Lich King. Was something revealed that states otherwise?

I'm hoping in the Uldar patch we'll get more story of YS vs Scourge. Maybe even an area of Uldar that the Scourge is attacking like live side vs dead side in Strat.

Where do you get the idea that the Nerubians follow Yogg Saron still? I know it was hinted at back when they were doing the Qiraji lore, but I thought that the text from the Nerubian right outside Azjol that says the Nerubians "dug too far" implies they didn't want to get close to YS.

Old Kingdom (instance) is under Yogg Saron's influence. Of course Azjol-Nerub (the instance) is under Scourge control. Evidence by Twilight Hammer and Faceless Ones.

Most of the Nerubians serve either the Scourge or Yogg-Saron. As a result, the majority of Arthas' "recruits" would have to serve YS.

I was under the impression that most of the Nerubians did not serve YS. Kilix's quests, particularly The Faceless Ones implies that fighting the scourge and the minions of the old god was a two-front war (also that he is hostile to both forces). Of course, most Nerubians are now part of the Scourge.

Also in the Warcraft III campaign, Anub'Arak hadn't met Faceless Ones before.

On Yogg-Saron's wider influence, there is nothing stopping him from being behind Loken, any forces at the bottom of AN and manipulating (subtly) the Lich King and the Scourge. He is after all an Old God (who I believe we have been told is insane making his motivations somewhat difficult to understand).