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01/20/09, 7:24 AM
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#1516
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Great Tiger
Troll Death Knight
Mal'Ganis
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Something I'm interested in is any possible follow-ups to the quest Pure Evil in Zul'Drak (where the various members of the Argent Crusade attempt to study a chunk of Saronite).
Quest:Pure Evil - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
The message the quest seems to get across is that Saronite is nearly indestructible, at least by conventional methods. The Ashbringer was redeemed through the power of the light, both as raw materials before it was forged, and again at Light's Hope. Saronite on the other hand reacted violently when an attempt to use the Light on it was made.
Is this a property unique to Saronite, or is it common among the all things related to Old Gods/Yogg? Where salvation from the Scourge and the Lich King seem to be somewhat of a regular occurrence, to date I don't believe there has been a quest where anyone suffering from corruption by an Old God has been saved. I'm not so sure Thorim can be redeemed if he' been corrupted.
Moreover, I'm not so sure about the confict between Arthas and Yogg, if you can call it that. It's noted in a quest that mention of Yogg-Saron among the scourge causes unrest, but for all of Arthas's exploitation of Saronite and general abuse, Yogg and his followers seem largely unconcerned with him. Loken and the Iron Dwarves ignore the Scourge completely (or at least there are no encounters between them), for instance. I don't think Arthas has any real power over Yogg. The relationship between the Scourge and Yogg seems mostly like the former are a rodent infestation of some sort.
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01/20/09, 7:43 AM
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#1517
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Piston Honda
Human Warlock
Steamwheedle Cartel
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Originally Posted by Kaejin
Is this a property unique to Saronite, or is it common among the all things related to Old Gods/Yogg? Where salvation from the Scourge and the Lich King seem to be somewhat of a regular occurrence, to date I don't believe there has been a quest where anyone suffering from corruption by an Old God has been saved. I'm not so sure Thorim can be redeemed if he' been corrupted.
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In the AQ quest chain, you (well, Tyrande and Remulos) rescue Eranikus from his corruption, which was supposedly caused by the Old Gods.
Last edited by Faldrath : 01/20/09 at 7:53 AM.
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01/20/09, 9:05 AM
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#1518
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Great Tiger
Night Elf Hunter
Moonglade (EU)
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Originally Posted by Faldrath
In the AQ quest chain, you (well, Tyrande and Remulos) rescue Eranikus from his corruption, which was supposedly caused by the Old Gods.
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It's quite interesting, now that you mention it.
While undeath and generally the Scourge are some twisted manipulations of life and can be combated with forces of the Light, the old god corruption are an offense to nature, and can be removed with primal, natural energies? That would actually add some background to the already existing druid - Old God feud, and it would actually hint that you would need Ysera's help before we tackle Yogg'saron. Like I said, quite interesting, and this can very well lead to a lot of possibilities.
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Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
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Originally Posted by Kaubel
You people are idiots
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Guilty as charged ^
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01/20/09, 9:33 AM
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#1519
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Piston Honda
Dwarf Rogue
Proudmoore (EU)
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I am wondering, why noone yet suggested that maybe Loken himself might be the endboss of Ulduar?
OK not the feeble Version you kill in Halls of lightning, but the new, improved, buffed-by-yogg-saron-version.
For me that's much more likely than Thorim. He'll surely be there, and i find the idea of teh four watchers quite compelling, but I don't see Thorim as endboss.
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01/20/09, 9:36 AM
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#1520
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Great Tiger
Troll Death Knight
Mal'Ganis
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Eranikus was something I completely forgot about. However, as far as nature vs. Old Gods goes, there's still this to consider during the Pure Evil quest:
Eitrigg says: Rayne, Rimblat, what about the power of nature and the elements?
Rimblat Earthshatter says: Let us see if it is truely impervious.
Rimblat casts some nature spell... (Hurricane?) on the pile of saronite
Rimblat Earthshatter says: Nothing.
Rayne says: By the Goddess. It's as if Nature can't touch it!
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Perhaps it's just because it's Saronite (the blood or Yogg-Saron, was it?) and hence extra evil.
Something I wonder about is why Yogg doesn't seem to exert any power over Arthas's minions despite such things as ghouls being constructed with shards of Saronite in them and whatnot.
Last edited by Kaejin : 01/20/09 at 9:55 AM.
Reason: added more after quote
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01/20/09, 10:01 AM
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#1521
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Rerox
I am wondering, why noone yet suggested that maybe Loken himself might be the endboss of Ulduar?
OK not the feeble Version you kill in Halls of lightning, but the new, improved, buffed-by-yogg-saron-version.
For me that's much more likely than Thorim. He'll surely be there, and i find the idea of teh four watchers quite compelling, but I don't see Thorim as endboss.
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As much as I loved Loken, I donlt think we will see him. Bit of a shame, as he had some great build up, and was a entirely new villian. His death pretty much closed his story, other then the light signal blasting on his death.
I wouldn't complain if he did come back though.
You know this is the first raid instance in a long time that has a lot of mystery around it. We have pretty much known stuff about the final bosses of the various raids we have gotten for a long time now. Last time we had a big unknown were the AQ's. I remember what a shcok it was that we were going after an actual old god in AQ40.
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01/20/09, 11:48 AM
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#1522
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Chief Passenger
Gnome Rogue
Earthen Ring (EU)
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Originally Posted by Rerox
I am wondering, why noone yet suggested that maybe Loken himself might be the endboss of Ulduar?
OK not the feeble Version you kill in Halls of lightning, but the new, improved, buffed-by-yogg-saron-version.
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This is very very unlikely, for the simple reason that you kill Loken in Halls of Lightning! Blizzard have never put the same boss in two different dungeons without it being explicitly signalled that the boss is not really dead (Kel'thuzad's phylactery, Kael'thas's Verdant Sphere).
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01/20/09, 11:57 AM
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#1523
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by songster
This is very very unlikely, for the simple reason that you kill Loken in Halls of Lightning! Blizzard have never put the same boss in two different dungeons without it being explicitly signalled that the boss is not really dead (Kel'thuzad's phylactery, Kael'thas's Verdant Sphere).
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Baron Rivendare begs to differ. You even collect his head for a quest. I don't think Blizzard objects to reconning things where they feel its appropriate.
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01/20/09, 12:26 PM
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#1524
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Von Kaiser
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Perhaps Yogg-Saron affects the Scourge because he could be a pure embodiment of chaos itself? In other fantasies (lovecraft comes to mind) there can be a difference with absolute chaos and just being evil. If chaos cannot/does not destroy something, it usually corrupts or drives something insane.
We don't know what the mindset of a Old God is. I don't see why it has to be <stereotypical evil NPC goals>.
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I reject your paltry reality and substitute my own.
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01/20/09, 12:36 PM
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#1525
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Great Tiger
Night Elf Hunter
Moonglade (EU)
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If YS' agenda was to enslave every living being on Azeroth, then he would probably be very hostile to the Scourge. However, if it's something larger, like, say, lure the Titans to Azeroth, revenge on whatever faction, or just pure chaos across the world, then the Scourge (as well as the Blue and Black Dragonflights) could very well pave the way towards his end game, either wittingly or otherwise. Hence, it would be in his interest to let things play out and step in at the right time and finish off what was left.
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Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
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Originally Posted by Kaubel
You people are idiots
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Guilty as charged ^
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01/20/09, 12:53 PM
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#1526
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Piston Honda
Human Warrior
Hellscream (EU)
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Looks like blizzplanet broke the street date (5pm Tuesday) on the cover shot and blurb on the new warcraft comic #18 which has Garona on the cover with strange eyes daring people to speculate on her parentage =x
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And the peanut gallery keeps growing ever larger, it seems. Issue 18, though? The last I heard of it was issue 14 with Varian Wrynn #1 and #2 combining their powers to form Captain Planet.
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We don't know what the mindset of a Old God is.
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We can assume the first priority is "Keep myself alive" if things capable of killing it arrive, followed by "Get rid of anything that can kill me".
Far too much stock is placed in the 'explanation' of "We couldn't possibly understand their thoughts", which is -- as far as I care as a writer and reader -- just an excuse not to have to think about character motives at best, and proof of bad writing at worst.
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01/20/09, 4:16 PM
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#1527
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Blayze
Far too much stock is placed in the 'explanation' of "We couldn't possibly understand their thoughts", which is -- as far as I care as a writer and reader -- just an excuse not to have to think about character motives at best, and proof of bad writing at worst.
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At the end of the story, sure. You can't really try to humanize (and thus devalue) something that's supposed to be beyond our (read: our character's) understand by pointing out its lack of visible motive. Not to be RP, but the story is interpreted through our characters. If we (as characters in WoW) aren't able to comprehend whatever that is going on, then we won't.
The story isn't over. If after killing/defeating/whatevering Arthas someone decides to point out "Oh hey what about Yogg-Saron," then we can have contempt towards the character/purpose/whatever of a chaotic entity in the story.
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01/20/09, 7:59 PM
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#1528
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Piston Honda
Night Elf Druid
Frostwolf
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Originally Posted by Blayze
And the peanut gallery keeps growing ever larger, it seems. Issue 18, though? The last I heard of it was issue 14 with Varian Wrynn #1 and #2 combining their powers to form Captain Planet.
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Calling it #18 based on thread here WoW # 18 - Garona's Affiliation - Scrolls of Lore Forums (lore central)
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01/20/09, 9:53 PM
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#1529
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Bald Bull
Night Elf Warrior
Sargeras
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Originally Posted by Spink
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Umm, wow.
Yeah we're on Warcraft #14 atm. So a jump to issue 18 is a bit of a leap.
And wow, Garona. 
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What is the most important thing to you? Won't you grant me the pleasure of taking it away.
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01/20/09, 11:53 PM
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#1530
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Honorary Toastr
Night Elf Priest
Dragonblight
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I don't suppose any of you know of a place to read about the comic books without actually read the comic books. Not that I have issues spending money on that stuff; I just outright hate the format and it makes my eyes hurt.
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Originally Posted by arison
Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.
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