World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 115

Liebestod · 01/30/09, 1:05 AM

Originally Posted by Emeraude

BlizzCast Episode 7

Interview up with our God Met, err I mean our lore guy Christ Metze, ack, CHRIS Metzen.

Fun one:

I immediately thought of Garona's son.

An Order of Tirisfal plotline would tie in well with Tomb of Sargeras content in the Maelstrom expansion. :3

I wonder if they'll ever get around to the "Old God under Tirisfal" plotline. Maybe he'll be the one corrupting the Emerald Dream.

Tyrian · 01/30/09, 4:03 AM

There were two standout quotes from the Podcast that are relevant to WOTLK current and future story:

Nethaera: One of the areas that we use the phasing is with the Wrath Gate and that’s a good example of an in-game cut scene as well. This hasn’t been seen in World of Warcraft before. What was the catalyst for the idea to do this and what do you feel it adds to the game?

Jeffrey Kaplan: Well I think the catalyst to do it was that our quest team, along with Alex Afrasiabi and Chris Metzen, where jamming up the expansion overall story art and part of that was to have three main story moments that would define the three acts of the expansion. And the end of the first act is that cut scene at the Wrath Gate, so obviously, you are probably wondering well what are other two acts and that’s what the patches are all about. But, they really wanted to set the stage and wanted to do it in the most dramatic fashion possible.

So Wrath gate was Act 1, essentially serving solely to set the scene of whats to come. We'll all be left eagerly wondering now what Acts 2/3 are and which content patches they will tie in with.

J. Allen Brack: I think we also just have a lot of stories that we still want to tell, you know, we just finished the Burning Crusade expansion, but we haven’t met the boss of the Burning Legion yet. Sargeras is still out there. What’s going on with him? What is he doing? I’m certain that he’s not done. So yeah, there’s a lot of guys out there.

Chris Metzen: Apart from all that, there is a whole other aspect the Lich King, which is the Yog Saron plot line. We are suggesting that there is a certain old god component that really moves as a major undercurrent in the Warcraft continuity. Just how is Yog Saron tied to the Scourge or Lich King specifically? I won’t tell you, at this point, but it is definitely a major hook that we are driving forward. Whatever the old gods’ story is, it is not going to end in Northrend. It’s a global threat and really plays to the much broader context of what the Warcraft conflict really is..

I would love to take this as the first subtle hints that Sargeras and Old Gods will be a theme in a Maelstrom expansion.

Hildegard · 01/30/09, 4:24 AM

If Yogg-Sarons story will not end in Northrend than we can assume that we will not fight him in Ulduar or only fight an Avatar.

Tyrian · 01/30/09, 4:35 AM

I interpreted his mention of Old God's as plural. Such that, even if Yogg-Saron's story is finished in WOTLK, other Old Gods will continue it in future. I guess the context of the comment could be taken either way.

Vaccine · 01/30/09, 4:35 AM

Whilst the nightmare has been confirmed to be an Old God's doing, I like the Hakkar idea better. In one of the RPG source books Brann says Hakkar is either an Old God himself, or the powerful son of one. Given the history between Ysera and Hakkar when the trolls rose up against him and the Hakkari it would be fitting. I guess it remains to be seen whether the Old Gods are a race as such (like they all look the same) and whether they are all the same power level prevents us from knowning if Hakkar was one. He doesn't seem to be following anyone's lead, just satisfying his own blood lust.

I'd love for 3.1 or 3.2 to open up the Green portal in Wyrmrest which leads into the dream and has us protecting Ysera whilst fighting the nightmare.

Désespoir · 01/30/09, 5:13 AM

I see more the Wyrmrest Sanctum as a neutral place for dragons where they can access to kind of small planes of existence in which they can hatch some of their eggs. For some unknown reason the obsidian sanctum has been opened and we discover that the Black Dragonflight has replaced its eggs with twilight eggs.

It is the first time that some of Deathwing actions are so clearly exposed. He may have lost his prime consort in the process (Lady Sinistra being killed by her own 'son' the first member of the Twilight Deagonflight) but he has clearly decided to use this new brood. We probably delayed them by killing Sartharion and destroying the current eggs, but it's probably not over.

If at any point portals to the Emeral Dream are opened they will be linked to the Emerald Dragons from Vanilla or to Malfurion. Not to the Sanctum.

Concerning YS not being over in Northrend, what about a language trick ?
We will confront YS and eventually kill him. But could it be possible that the final fight takes place in Uldum instead of some Northrend place?

Masnie · 01/30/09, 6:08 AM

Talking about Sartharion: On our last raid I noticed for the first time Vesperon's speech as he enters the fight:

Originally Posted by Vesperon

Father was right about you, Sartharion...You are a weakling!

So there is a Father somewhere. I'm not sure if they consider Deathwing as their father, or if there is already a mature Twilight Dragon. As far as I remember the twilight Dragon in Night of the Dragon dies in the end though.

Vaccine · 01/30/09, 6:31 AM

Guess I need to read the novels, wasn't aware there had been more Sintharia lore past the Netherwing Ledge stuff.

I see the Sanctum more of a meeting place, a sacred temple for the aspects to converge and discuss important matters. It then follows that the portals aren't leading to places that are outside relaity or a secret entrance to hidden places and its the only means of travel to them, it makes more sense to me that they are from the inner sanctums of each flight as a means of instantaneous travel to Wyrmrest in an emergency. That would then follow that the green portal leads to Ysera's Eye in the Emerald Dream, the Red to Grim Batol, the blue to who knows (Mazrothil maybe, or Coldarra).

There was meant to be another portal to the Emerald Dream in Northrend and it never appeared in Crystalsong, maybe this is it.

I'm sure the portals will be opened if an Emerald Dream expansion is ever realised but it is logical that the green portal leads to the domes in Ysera's eye where the majority of the flight live.

Emeraude · 01/30/09, 6:41 AM

Originally Posted by Masnie

Talking about Sartharion: On our last raid I noticed for the first time Vesperon's speech as he enters the fight:

Father was right about you, Sartharion...You are a weakling!

So there is a Father somewhere. I'm not sure if they consider Deathwing as their father, or if there is already a mature Twilight Dragon. As far as I remember the twilight Dragon in Night of the Dragon dies in the end though.

Yes, they're talking about Deathwing with that quote.

That's probably my favorite line of the fight, it's so Black Dragonflight-like. Even the siblings can't get along.

Vaccine · 01/30/09, 7:41 AM

Sartharion is a Black Dragon though isn't he? I always viewed it as the siblings having mutual contempt for the black dragons as they recognised that the twilight dragons were the future of the flight and were now Deathwing's favoured ones.

Ukerric · 01/30/09, 7:48 AM

Originally Posted by Vaccine

I like the Hakkar idea better. In one of the RPG source books Brann says Hakkar is either an Old God himself, or the powerful son of one.

Definitively not an Old God. Far too... small.

There's an Lovecraftian figure that's known for its numerous offsprings, which hints at a possible parentage. But then, Lovecraft's Mythos was enriched by Derleth (whose work really underpines the Warcarftish Old God lore - with the Titans emprisoning the Old Gods being direct copy from the Elder Gods emprisoning the Outer Gods) and Brian Lumley, and we have far more possible Old Gods than we can use

Kaejin · 01/30/09, 8:38 AM

I agree with Hakkar not being an Old God. He's definitely too small time and doesn't hold many of the signature traits they currently have. I'm guessing that maybe once he was supposed to be affiliated with them, but he's been retconned and we just haven't really been told yet.

He's not nearly as subtle as C'thun or Yogg-Saron. He holds no physical resemblance, and he doesn't really corrupt in the way we see either of them do it. He plays few mind games and the only thing in ZG related to insanity is the Edge of Insanity, which is really only insane in name. He really doesn't play the same game that those two play. If I really had to pin him down, I'd go with something like the primary evil of the Troll Loa pantheon.

Duilliath · 01/30/09, 8:50 AM

Originally Posted by Tyrian

I would love to take this as the first subtle hints that Sargeras and Old Gods will be a theme in a Maelstrom expansion.

Personally, I found the following bit far more interesting:

Originally Posted by Metzen

I guess, you could say, there are a lot of things rooted in the past that have necessitated this conflict at this time. As we see the Alliance and the Horde rushing in to fight the big bad guy, you can argue that the little bits of their soul, the little bits of their sanity, that they will leave up there on the snow, even if they achieve victory, might be part of a larger machination, as well. Some thing wearing our heroes down. It’s kind of an interesting theme.

That definitely reads like the ongoing struggle against Arthas is bolstering Yog Saron's strength/forces (not unlike the Saronite Slaves jumping down...)

Faldrath · 01/30/09, 9:27 AM

About Hakkar, I'm not sure. I think we're mostly considering him to be small fish because of what I like to call the "Zalazane Syndrome" (i.e. "he's only level 10, how can he be powerful?"). We fought Hakkar in one of the easiest instances in the game a long time ago, but all the build-up leading to him does try to present him as a threat to the whole world - while he might not be an old god himself, it's not too far-fetched to picture him being related to them in some way. And he still, still, still has the best line in all of WoW's bosses - which, incidentally, is directly related to the themes we're discussing here:

PRIDE HERALDS THE END OF YOUR WORLD. COME, MORTALS! FACE THE WRATH OF THE SOULFLAYER!

The thing about fighting corruption (related to Duiliath's post above) is that it eventually beats you even if you "win". What remains to be seen is whether this is actually Sargeras' general approach (planting the seeds of corruption instead of outright destroying worlds) or if it's just the Old Gods' modus operandi, so to speak.

Regarding the Blizzcast, I was somewhat disappointed to see that Metzen and co. think that the dragon lore is fine, and that the Nexus War as portrayed in game was credible. But I'll still hold my judgment until they present the other Chambers.

Maledict · 01/30/09, 10:02 AM

They aren't going to say, 2 months into the expansion, that they made serious mistakes around the storyline. All the analysis around TBC's weakness's only came out when the expansion was finished and they were working hard on Wrath. You can't expect them to be tearing apart their creation a couple of months after it's staggered out into daylight. I'd expect to see more concrete "success's and failures of Wrath" once the next expansion is underway properly and publicly.