The story for Mal'Ganis is somewhat cut off, we can only assume that he will make a reappearance but his line can be taken another way. The impression you provide, as many others would assume as well, is that we would have to work with Mal'Ganis and the dreadlords to defeat the Lich King. My thought lies in that, is Mal'Ganis operating under the same belief as other major characters (IE Malygos, Algalon) that the PC is not powerful, strong enough, to confront the evils of Azeroth?

When we as PCs in the game arrive in the Icecrown Citadel, we will have progressed through tremendous feats of strength, namely: defeating a protector of Azeroth in Malygos, destroying a major military installation of the Lich King (Naxx), eliminating the influence of an Old God in Yogg-Saron, convinced the hand of the titans in Algalon to stay the execution of our planet, and whatever other accomplishments that we are to complete in 3.2. Our progression of strength from when we first encounter Mal'Ganis in Icecrown to when we face Arthas himself will have been a long journey showing strength beyond that of a normal person in which Mal'Ganis assumes us to be.

The fight against Arthas will require a scenario of two outcomes. First outcome, we either need to be aided in the fight against him because of his vast amount of power, this can be done by weakening Arthas through some external force (similar to Hakkar in ZG), other characters providing assistance in defeating him (Akama fighting off the adds and Maiev laying loltraps), or providing us mitigation from the damage that Arthas throws toward us (Kalecgos and the Blue Dragonflight with their shield orb, haste, and healing on Kil'Jaeden). The second outcome is that the PC has advanced so much that we are able to defeat Arthas through our own strength, destroying him with our own abilities and coordination. It comes down to something that has been stated a few times in this thread, how far does blizzard want to take the hubris?

Why would Mal'ganis assume we're just ordinary? He probably remembers us specifically from the Culling of Stratholme. Yes, Arthas was the "hero" and we were his supporting cast, but we were still there. I would more say Mal'ganis is trying to play psychological games (if he insults you enough and you believe it, you really do become weak), he's propping up his ego (I can't become stronger, but if I make you look weaker the difference makes me look better), or setting up to negotiate (I'm strong, you're weak, I'm dealing from the position of strength, give me extra concessions).

I wouldn't put it past a mixture of all three. If the Legion lost control of the Scourge, then a decent backup plan would be "Hey, we'll help you clear out those pesky Scourge. Just need you to open this silly portal thing so I can bring a couple reinforcements through." The Legion just needs a solid path of entry - that's what they keep losing time after time, Sunwell and Varimathras' Undercity being the latest two failures.

Zarhym made some posts about a new BG similar to AV in "the future". Maybe that's what the Argent Tournament is going to open up in 3.2.

Where is this line from specifically? I don't remember it.
The Nathrezim helping us topple Arthas would make sense, and of course we would be betrayed at some point. :P 3.2 could involve us opening a portal, which allows us to break into Icecrown in 3.3. Its hard to see the Argent Crusade going along with it, but they also have deathknights so who knows.

I believe it's in the Admiral questline in Onslaught Harbor.

It's what he says after the final encounter with him in Icecrown after the Scarlet Onslaught are effectively eliminated. I was actually envisioning it being more like a three-way battle between your raid, Mal'ganis, and Scourge instead of us teaming up with Mal'ganis, but who knows.

I was thinking Azshara Crater was more likely judging by the AV remark.

Exactly. I think he's talking about the Onslaught, not some hypothetical dreadlord assault force (Four Legion vets, framed for a crime they didn't commit, help the innocent while on the run from Kil'Jaeden).

Well, it would depend on who is leading the Legion right now. Having the Scourge and Alliance/Horde decimate each other before attacking is something Kil'Jaeden would do. But we really have no idea how subdued he is. Imagine if a hot-head was leading the Legion, or at least some hot-head was leading a specific division of the Legion focusing on Azeroth.

And, as much as I like the Azshara Crater idea (I personally would of guessed Azshara Crater as well) that seems more like a battleground for the Maelstrom expansion.

Purely theorethical, but what if the new battleground involved Azjol-Nerub? Think about it.

The battleground could also be a pivotal turning point of Act II. Now think about that ;D

A lot of the latest suggestions for battlegrounds I can't really think how can be done properly. They're all revolving around theme of a greater evil, which is not what you want for a battleground.
You want a setting that will promote a conflict between the Horde and the Alliance, usually resources or contested land and to a lesser extent, general animosity.

I don't think Blizzard are about to shy away from that formula any time soon which does rule out most battlegrounds involving The Scourge or the The Burning Legion in any incarnation.

Azshara Crater has been mentioned many times in the past and I believe has even been acknowleged to be a planned site for a battleground that may or may not be introduced in the future. A good thing to fight for in Azshara would of course be the inherently magical items leftover from the Highborne. Even Azuregos "can smell them".

I really find it very unlikely to have any PvE related battleground. It's been tried with AV, but all factions save for the kobolds have been removed.

I guess the obvious question is: how does Gilneas tie into this expansion? It would be a very random departure from all that we've been dealing with. I'm going to do some more reading on it today to refresh what I know about it, but here are the only things I could think of.

1.) If Gilneas avoided the plague, Arthas must surely be aware. He must also have memories of that kingdom and of its leaders with whom he once dealt with. Are there treasures in Gilneas? Artifacts? Something that he would HAVE to possess? Could he have secretly invaded? Using the walls to shield what work he continued? It wouldn't be out of the question for him to have attacked that land, especially if his pride drove him to leave a city that evaded his grasp, in ruins. He can clearly take troops there, having attacked every other area of the planet. (Stormwind / Orgrimmar, The Sunwell, the floating Necropoli in Tanaris, Winterspring, etc.)

2.) Deathwing had some influence of Genn Greymane, as Lord Prestor? Is it possible that he has taken over that land, using it as a storage for his weapons and dragons? Could he have done more with the land?

3.) Arugal and the worgen. What could have taken place south of that wall? Was Arugal's ressurection a tie in to something more sinister brooding in Gilneas?

4.) The Naga may have taken over the lands. The comics have begun to put some importance in the hands of Jaina and Theramore. Could Daelin / the state of Kul Tiras have some connection to Gilneas, and could a link sprout from here that would link these characters, The Twilight Cultists, and the expected Old Gods in the Maelstrom and West of Tirisfal? Would this be a tie in to Yogg?


These are the only things I could think of and none seem to make much sense. If anything, I would imagine it's a hint towards an impending 3rd Expansion Announcement. It would more than likely be more exciting of an announcement than the 3.2 dungeon.


Edit: There's the island of Zul'Dare to the southeast of Gilneas. Clearly this is the 3.2 raid. Carry on.

He and others look too into Blizzards hints. We are very likely going to see the next expansion announced at Blizzcon this year and if it is the Maelstrom then of course we will see Gilneas added in with it. But right now I think people are looking way into Blizzard teasing players the same way they did when Blizzard teased about Uldum.

I agree. But what do you think the odds are that the next expansion is announced before Blizzcon? I believe Diablo III was announced at WWI? And that is coming up in June is it not? I imagine Blizzcon will house the announcement of the next-gen MMO, along with further details on this next expansion (maybe something about the next hero class or new races, and the development process, etc.)

Out of respect for the source, I'd rather not go into detail. That being said, what zones could house the 3.2 instance that are 8 characters long? I don't know the answer, this is the hint i was given.

Considering that Blizz has nothing to announce at Blizzcon if they announce the next addon at the WWI (are they even there?) and they next-gen mmo is still far to early in development to be announced it's a good bet that they will announce the addon there.

It simply unlikely they would throw away their only game announcement for the next 1,5-2 years at something like the WWI and break the tradition of announcing a new game (or addon) at Blizzcon

Wetlands is eight characters. However it's not the most attractive place in the old-world that you'd really want all your players to venture to, after the beauty that is Northrend. It does look a little outdated these days.

One of the big player concerns about WOTLK is, "How the hell are they going to continue the story after the Lich King. WOTLK doesn't really give any direction for it yet" We kill the Lich king, then what? We get a letter saying theres a disturbance in the Maelstrom? A raid instance like Gilneas/Grim Batol has potential to create a link between WOTLK and the next expansion, which many players have wanted. We don't just want to kill Arthas and then think, "So what now?" in one big anticlimatic sigh.

Imagine a scenario where we visit Gilneas to discover the set-up story for the next expansion: Azshara is in the final stages of summoning Naz'jatar back to the surface (Just like the Arthas book describes in the vision in the recent book). How did she get the power to do this? Maybe its an alliance with Sargeras, maybe an Old God. Pick what you prefer. The idea is that players can go and quell whatever needs to be dealt with in Gilneas now, but the immediate threat is the Lich King in 3.3. After that we all know where the story is going to head and theres been a nice link between 3.2 and 4.1.

However I can't help but feel a little jibbed. So many players wanted, more than anything really else, Azjol-Nerub. If I could ask WoW designers one thing about WOTLK at next Blizzcon it would be, "What the hell happened to Azjol-Nerub?"

Gilneas and Grim Batol might have potential, but they need to be implemented with a satisfying reason. The logical reason is to be a link to the next expansion. Simply having them there as raid zones, shoved in between 3.1 and 3.3 with some kind of tacked on story (Eg Infinity flight and Mount Hyjal) will not impress anybody.

I'd imagine if they are asked about Azjol-Nerub they will say that it was abandoned due to time or technical limitations. But I do agree that is was one of the biggest disappointments with this expansion not seeing it added.

I don't believe we need to hope there is a tie in for the next expansion in 3.2 since we really didn't get any tie in for WotLK in TBC. Now sure many players who don't pay attention to lore may not know who Azshara is but then again that's what the expansion announcement is for. Wetlands may not be very attractive but no old world area is and I'd imagine if Grim Batol was added they would make a little questing hub area to the east of it which would use some updated graphics.

Sort of a random thought, but I wonder if Deathwing being the Earth Aspect could somehow help Azshara raise Nazjatar out of the ocean (although she's certainly had enough time at the bottom of the ocean to study about how to do that on her own). It just feels really odd to me that they would have another major Old God plot point, unless they are perhaps ramping up the Old God storyline so the fourth expansion is entirely devoted to them.

If they do put in Grim Batol in 3.2, it would make sense that they redo at least a good part of that area since the nearest Horde flight point is quite a long ways away.

I doubt we would see Neltharion help Azshara considering their past with Azshara attempting to get the Demon Soul taken from him.

Actually, that kinda makes me think about a possible way to bring back Deathwing into the fold. After all, the last thing Azeroth needs is another dead aspect.

Precisely eight?

Westfall. Deadwind. Wetlands. Tirisfal. Hellfire. Eversong. Badlands. Redridge. Duskwood. Silithus (Oh no...). Thousand (Needles. So I'm stretching it a little...). Desolace (Terramok?). Terokkar. Icecrown. Zul'Drak. Sholazar. Technically also Coldarra...

Assuming that's the full list, that gives us sixteen major zones that could potentially house the 3.2 instance. Aside from potentially escalated Defias interference, I can't see Westfall having anything. As for Deadwind... Karazhan Mirror Mode, perhaps? The Wetlands... hmm. Grim Batol, I wonder? I can't think of anything Tirisfal would have... nor Hellfire, Eversong, the Badlands, Duskwood or Redridge. Silithus... there's still roughly (According to the continent-wide map) still half the zone left unused.

I also think the Thousand Needles are out of the equation, as well as Terokkar -- we've seen and done Auchindoun, what's left to do there? I'm not too sure about Icecrown. Might serve as a build-up for 3.3, but still... I've seen some debate on Zul'Drak and Gundrak/Drak'Tharon Keep, and I've got no idea about Sholazar. Heh, might actually serve to give it a purpose beyond merely a mining zone. Coldarra's a part of Borean Tundra and we already have three instances there, so I'm not exactly optimistic.

As for Desolace and a potential Terramok? Eh, I think we've had enough Titan stuff for now this expansion.

That leaves us with, as far as I can tell:

Deadwind Pass -- Karazhan Lower Side
The Wetlands -- Grim Batol
Silithus -- Half the potential zone unused?
Icecrown -- Roundabout way of distracting us from this supposed arena "raid"?