World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 128

4LV · 02/11/09, 7:07 PM

On the blue flight's recent (or at least gamewisely recent) use of Magic runes I think that they're just a natural store for energy. Kind of like a waterbottle if you will excuse my bad anology. Or since dragons in their draconian shape don't use tools like magic staves, they're just a way of storing magic. But the rampant use of it lately could easily come from desperation and cause overuse or corruption. Kind of like biting over more than you can chew.

Jagiya · 02/11/09, 7:50 PM

If Metzen insists that the new Aspect "isn't obvious", we have to consider a few things;

- Will the introduction of a new aspect be relevant to the WotLK storyline, or have any significant impact? Or will it be a case of comic/background lore? If the case becomes the former, then I don't entirely think we can point a finger at Med'an. Aside from the most recent comic, he has had no introduction whatsoever. It just wouldn't sit right; too many gaps. To be fair, they did the same thing with Varian, however he was just filling a long-term, mysterious absence - not replacing one of the most influencial positions in Azeroth's history.

- We can't really consider anyone in a position of leadership, such as Jaina or Rhonin. Ejecting them at this point wouldn't work without obvious successors. Besides, they're fairly obvious choices anyway. Khadgar comes to mind, as the Outlands conflict has been resolved... he's really just standing around with a few Naaru these days, while the rest of them are off fighting the Burning Legion elsewhere. I guess Kalecgos would be too much of an obvious choice also. Maybe Tyri? I really wish that Arthas book would hurry up!!

- Logically speaking, Malygos' corpse fell into oblivion. The prospect of a resurrection by Arthas would be silly. There's alot of moral impact as a result of Malygos' death - bringing him back again would really defeat that. Besides, with Malygos, Sartharion & Sapphiron upon WotLK launch, Sindragosa in Icecrown and Veranus in Ulduar, I think we've certainly fulfilled the dragon boss quota for this expansion. God knows what else they intend to release within the Obsidian Sanctum.

- The description on the Heart of Magic. "It's not actually Malygos's heart. Rather it's an object of incredible power that Alexstrasza retrieved from his body." Alexstrasza retrieved it with intention. It's clear that the dragonflights do not have the ability to "imbue" an aspect, but I'm sure the Titans left some "In case of emergency, break glass and retrieve Heart of Magic. Bring back to us. We can rebuild him - we have the technology. Better. Stronger. A little less homocidal." I'm sure they have prototypes for this sort of thing. For all we know, we may be tasked with the job of opening up a titan laboratory, inserting our token, and shazam - new and improved Malygos, followed by a long, detailed explanation of "Ohhh, yeah, I totally lost it back there, sorry. Got a bit too close to Yogg-Saron, y'know? Hey, how about we team up and go kick his ass?"

EDIT: Does it appear bleedingly obvious to anyone else that Veranus will be the optional/hard-mode boss in Ulduar?

Tyrn · 02/11/09, 7:53 PM

Emeraude is right about the runes I believe. Runes carved on beings (or even Dragons) is nothing new. In D&D it was a feature for dragons to enhance their magic and physical prowess. In one book a dragon used runes carved on his scales to heal himself of wounds sustained from a duel in a attempt to outlast a dragon that was modeled from the beserker class. Dragons can have Character classes too.

As for the dragonflights. I think they were chosen for roles due to their affinity for that role, then enhanced by the Titans. Blues are naturally sensitive to magic, Blacks to the earth, Bronze to Time, and so on.

Blayze · 02/11/09, 8:54 PM

For all we know, we may be tasked with the job of opening up a titan laboratory

All the more reason to go to Ulduar, it seems.

I really wish that Arthas book would hurry up!!

I read somewhere that it was finished ages ago, they just decided to dangle it in front of our noses until now.

Edit:

If Metzen insists that the new Aspect "isn't obvious"

Hmm. I'd assume he's not going to pull something out of his ass, and that while not being "obvious" the choice of Aspect will at least be logical... Hmm. Given what he said about the Blood Elves as well, what are the chances of someone like Lady Liadrin taking up the mantle of Aspect of Magic?

Emeraude · 02/11/09, 9:08 PM

Originally Posted by Blayze

Hmm. I'd assume he's not going to pull something out of his ass, and that while not being "obvious" the choice of Aspect will at least be logical... Hmm. Given what he said about the Blood Elves as well, what are the chances of someone like Lady Liadrin taking up the mantle of Aspect of Magic?

Eh eh, that would be the exact opposite of what Metzen said, when Valen rebirthed the Sunwell it was more Holy then it was Arcane like the first one, there shouldn't be an addiction to magic this time around, and over time the Blood Elves will find they'll be able to call upon the light as opposed to manipulate it.

Vaccine · 02/12/09, 4:39 AM

Originally Posted by Emeraude

I'm not quite ready to accept the Violet Proto dragons as canonical. :P

Especially not if they remove Brew of the Year!

Ahem. On the runes I think they are likely just what one of the model designers added to try to spruce up the same dragon model we've been seeing for 4 years, and impress the blues magical nature upon the player.

Axira · 02/12/09, 5:14 AM

It's not all that farfetched to assume that the father of Med'an is/was Medivh?

Not only because the name is hinting a bit in that direction, but also due to the affinity to magic the character seems to show in the comic book.
And besides some hints from Metzen in that direction, regarding the new 'guardian' not being human.

Oh... and ofcourse also because we can find Garona's ring in a chest close to Medivh's bedroom.

Ashen · 02/12/09, 6:17 AM

I'm still a bit confused of where Malygos' body does end up. The first thing that came to my mind was Final Fantasy VII when Cloud ends up in the lifestream. Does the Nexus / Oculus / Eye of Eternity now share any connection with the Twisting Nether / the magical ley lines of Azeroth? Will Malygos' essence end up anywhere else? These are the thoughts in my mind, but i Don't really have a solid grasp of his realm, nor the abyss that he falls into.

Blayze · 02/12/09, 8:51 AM

Eh eh, that would be the exact opposite of what Metzen said, when Valen rebirthed the Sunwell it was more Holy then it was Arcane like the first one, there shouldn't be an addiction to magic this time around, and over time the Blood Elves will find they'll be able to call upon the light as opposed to manipulate it.

I thought Malygos was the Aspect of *all* magic, not just Arcane. Either way, I do like the idea of a Blood Elf becoming the Aspect of Magic and proving their race's addiction conquered by refusing to tap into or use their newly-acquired vast powers unless they absolutely need to.

Now to go through my mind's list of magic-using NPCs and working out which ones I think would have the chance to apply for the job. Med'an's mentor might be a candidate, it depends how events in the comic play out.

Emeraude · 02/12/09, 11:33 AM

I'm still a bit confused of where Malygos' body does end up. The first thing that came to my mind was Final Fantasy VII when Cloud ends up in the lifestream. Does the Nexus / Oculus / Eye of Eternity now share any connection with the Twisting Nether / the magical ley lines of Azeroth? Will Malygos' essence end up anywhere else? These are the thoughts in my mind, but i Don't really have a solid grasp of his realm, nor the abyss that he falls into.

I wouldn't put much thought into it, none of us know, and I doubt it's that relevant. If he does show up later down the line it's because we err "didn't see the body", but second guessing ourselves about the endless possibilities of where the body is and if it can be brought back from the dead without something solid to base that on it just meaningless.

I will say this though, I'm fairly sure that Blizzard ended the Nexus War in the first phase of the WotLK so that the consequences of that will play out in another future patch such as 3.1/3.2/3.3. Like with how the Sunwell/Blood Elf arc was completed within BC's span, we might see a more conclusive ending to the Aspect's plight before WotLK ends(Not all of them, just this particular one with the Aspect of Magic).

Originally Posted by Blayze

I thought Malygos was the Aspect of *all* magic, not just Arcane. Either way, I do like the idea of a Blood Elf becoming the Aspect of Magic and proving their race's addiction conquered by refusing to tap into or use their newly-acquired vast powers unless they absolutely need to.

Now to go through my mind's list of magic-using NPCs and working out which ones I think would have the chance to apply for the job. Med'an's mentor might be a candidate, it depends how events in the comic play out.

The Light and Arcane magic are two entirely separate entities, just as calling forth the elements(Shamanism) is different from interacting with nature(Druidism).

Rhaegal · 02/12/09, 11:36 AM

Originally Posted by Blayze

I thought Malygos was the Aspect of *all* magic, not just Arcane. Either way, I do like the idea of a Blood Elf becoming the Aspect of Magic and proving their race's addiction conquered by refusing to tap into or use their newly-acquired vast powers unless they absolutely need to.

There's definitely a distinction between types of magic--arcane, holy, and demonic (and maybe natural?). Malygos's domain, as I understood it, was merely that of the arcane, a field shared mostly by mages, though other classes (hunters for example) have limited abilities to access it through training. Holy magic, then, is something entirely different, which is tapped into by the Naaru, priests, and paladins. Demonic magic (notably warlocks) is self-explanatory, and independent of arcane, and I've never seen anything to link the blue dragonflight to demonic magic.

Of course, that doesn't explain shaman, druids, and shadow priests. Shaman and druid magic seems to be drawing power from nature, but I have no evidence to indicate that it's not tied to same source as arcane, thus falling under Malygos's domain, other than the fact that historically, druids and shaman have had almost completely separate histories from arcane magic users. Priests' shadow abilities seem totally inexplicable, though, without lumping most/all magic under the same domain... the more I talk about this, the more I'm starting to think maybe you're right.

It seems like the options are that either all magic falls under Malygos's domain, including some very uncharacteristic types (notably demonic), or just primarily arcane, which actually makes the role of the Aspect of Magic relatively minor, considering all the non-arcane magic users out there.

Nephros · 02/12/09, 12:11 PM

Originally Posted by Emeraude

On Runic Magic:

[...]

It's not evil on it's own, it, like most magic, is all about how you use it.

Well, the reason I brought it up in the first place is because of Keristrasza. She was our ally before, but once she was captured, the runes affect her in such a way that sway her thoughts. When you engage her she says:

Originally Posted by Keristrasza

Preserve? Why? There's no truth in it. No no no... only in the taking! I see that now!

The red dragonflight is tasked to preserve life, but whatever magic Malygos used seriously changes her. Is it so far fetched to think that the runes also affect the other blue dragonkin? (Rather than simply a means of amplifying their current power) The same runes that cause Keristrasza to be aggressive towards us and alter her thoughts? The daily quest Drake Hunt has you capture a drake so that Raelorasz can figure out the runes, but we never learn exactly what those runes are used for. Is it so far fetched that these runes are the cause of the blues' aggression?

The entire point of the whole rune discussion anyway is that maybe the blue's aren't naturally aggressive towards us, it's just that Malygos' bent them to his will. And that maybe, with a new aspect of magic leading the blue dragonflight, we'll get another ally against Arthas. And I mean, why not? The blues' task given to them was to keep magic in check. And Arthas is the biggest offender in abusing magic, even directly using it as an affront to the blue dragonflight by raising Sapphiron and Sindragosa.

Emeraude · 02/12/09, 12:49 PM

I think whatever he did to poor Keristrasza went far beyond those runes on her body.

I think you're underestimating how loyal a flight is to their respective Aspect. From what we've seen in WotLK none of the Blues have shown remorse, or have tried to cross sides, from the get go every single member of the Blue Dragonflight has shown immense loyalty toward Malyagos. While it's certainly possible that some are being manipulated, we have no reason to assume or believe this outside of what happened to a member not of their flight. In the case of Keristrasza, obviously the only way to bend her to his will IS to manipulate her.

Even the Black Dragonflight continually attempts to realize the dream of their patron, whether or not they even realize it or not. Kalecgos is mentioned by Metzen to be torn between loyalties, but even in Night of the Dragon Kalec mentioned what Malyagos was saying about the mortals made sense to him. Dragons see the world differently from us. The only reason you see a blue like Kalec give pause is because he bothered to spend time with mortals, the rest of the flight didn't have that luxury so to speak.

Bloo Driver · 02/12/09, 1:06 PM

Originally Posted by Nephros

The entire point of the whole rune discussion anyway is that maybe the blue's aren't naturally aggressive towards us, it's just that Malygos' bent them to his will. And that maybe, with a new aspect of magic leading the blue dragonflight, we'll get another ally against Arthas. And I mean, why not? The blues' task given to them was to keep magic in check. And Arthas is the biggest offender in abusing magic, even directly using it as an affront to the blue dragonflight by raising Sapphiron and Sindragosa.

It's not impossible to think that you could use runic magic to mind control people, but I think it may be more coincidental than directly related when compared to the iron dwarves, Loken, Yogg-Saron, and all that. Straight up mind control is a trick that Kel'thuzad can do, but we don't assume that everything that can mind control might be an agent of Naxxramas.

And to echo what's been said, I think people lose sight of just how little the dragons honestly care about the mortal races. Even at Wyrmrest Temple, the "friendly" dragons constantly remark at how little they regard you (even when it's nice, passive-aggressive comments). They're not necessarily hostile as a rule, but the dragons view humans, orcs, trolls, elves, etc sort've like how real world humans view ants. If an ant infestation was ruining your kitchen, you wouldn't think twice about exterminating them, or at least keeping them out and likely killing off many of them. I don't imagine that Malygos and the blue dragonflight see things in much of a different light than that, so it wouldn't be a matter of grousing and arguing them into agreement.

Kaejin · 02/12/09, 4:54 PM

That's a good point. Whenever we fight dragons, none of them seem concerned at all that a raid group of 40-25 people have challenged them.

Onyxia: We're dinner. Essentially we delivered pizza to her lair, and we're the pizza.

Nefarian: "Let the Game begin!"
We're entertainment, even after slaughtering the rest of BRS to get to him.

Sartharion: "This is why we call you lesser beings."
Also the twilight drakes are even more arrogant than most full-grown dragons.

Malygos: "Lesser beings, intruding here?! A shame that your excess courage does not compensate for your stupidity!"
This is what I say whenever I kill a cockroach in my apartment. Hopefully some day I don't encounter 25 of them after my epics.

And each one of them is in utter disbelief whenever they're defeated. Tenebron goes so far as to suggest she held back.

Dragons (or at least the ones we usually interact with) generally are only kind to mortals when they can make use of us. The reds are the only ones that care for mortals without much convincing, and it's safe to assume it's only because of Alexstrasza's love for all life. The rest only seem to respect us after we prove how good we are at doing chores for them.

On Magic: Fel energies are likely something completely different from magic, in the same way that druids manipulate the power of nature and how shamans call on the power of the primal elements. This is not to say that demons don't use magic in addition to fel energies, though. It's pretty clear that some demons are powerful mages, but some are clearly not. A good example would be Pit Lords vs. Eredar Mages (well, I guess you would call them warlocks now).

Void creatures are another example of "magic" that isn't really magic. It's just chaotic shadow energy.

Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but the idea behind Shadow Priests is that the shadow spells they use are also derived from faith, they're simply manifested in a different way. There's a good page on WoWWiki about Forsaken Shadow Priests.

Cult of Forgotten Shadow - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

They are likely outside of the realm of magic in a similar way to The Light, Druids, and Shaman. It all seems like magic, but it's not derived from the same source.

Are there any flaws in my way of thinking? I'm taking most of this from memory of things I've read over the years and playing WC3 (oh so long ago) and whatnot.