World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 14

Falk · 09/02/08, 2:28 AM

You sorta can't raise a finger against royalty, though...

Steveharris · 09/02/08, 4:04 AM

Yes. I seem to remember Uther saying something along the lines of how he won't stand for it (killing "innocents") and Arthas telling him to get bent because they're his people, he needs to kill them to save the rest, etc. At that point Uther bans Arthas from the KotSH and they ride off.

Well wouldn't you know; IMDB of all places proves an invaluable resource here:

Prince Arthas: Glad you could make it, Uther...
Lord Uther: Watch your tone with me, boy. You may be the prince, but I'm still your superior as a paladin.
Prince Arthas: As if I could forget. Listen Uther, there's something about the plague you should know.
Prince Arthas: [civilians begin entering a cursed sleep] Oh no, it's already begun. These people may look fine now, but it's only a matter of time before they turn into the Undead!
Lord Uther: What?!
Prince Arthas: This entire city must be purged.
Lord Uther: How can you even consider that? There's *got* to be some other way.
Prince Arthas: Damn it, Uther! As your future king, I order you to purge this city!
Lord Uther: You are *not* my king yet, boy. Nor would I obey that command even if you were.
Prince Arthas: Then I must consider this an act of treason.
Lord Uther: Treason?! Have you lost your mind, Arthas?
Prince Arthas: Have I? Lord Uther, by my right of succession and the sovereignty of my crown, I hereby relieve you of your command, and suspend your paladins from service.
Jaina Proudmoore: Arthas! You can't just--
Prince Arthas: It's done! Those of you who have the will to save this land, follow me. The rest of you... get out of my sight.
Lord Uther: [some knights leave] You've just crossed a terrible threshold, Arthas.
[Uther leaves as well.]
Prince Arthas: [Jaina begins leaving.] Jaina?
Jaina Proudmoore: I'm sorry, Arthas. I can't watch you do this...

WarCraft III: Reign of Chaos (2002) (VG) - Memorable quotes

Xunwael · 09/02/08, 7:54 AM

Maybe Uther knew it was the right thing to do? I mean, millitarily - not morally. It's much easier to let something horrible happen - even if you know it needs to be done, lesser evil as it were - than to do it yourself. Or maybe the story would've been alot less exciting if Uther had stopped Arthas and had to imprison him, thus probably no Lich King etc.

I must admit I personally sided with Arthas when I saw that scene.

Kumar · 09/02/08, 7:46 PM

Does anyone have more lore information on Zul'Drak area? The reason I ask is, I ran Gundrak yesterday in the beta (pretty cool instance btw), but one of the things we saw is this long tail, what looked like a snake's tail.

Pic:
http://i35.tinypic.com/6jf2wm.jpg

Its the Orange thing, in the instance is moving.

And I am wondering if that is some sort of a future raid boss? Snakes do play a role in the instance, the first boss is in Snake Form, the entrance area has literally hundreds of non-aggressive, non-elite snakes.

So, anybody have an idea?

Ashen · 09/02/08, 8:07 PM

Originally Posted by Kumar

Does anyone have more lore information on Zul'Drak area? The reason I ask is, I ran Gundrak yesterday in the beta (pretty cool instance btw), but one of the things we saw is this long tail, what looked like a snake's tail.

Pic:
http://i35.tinypic.com/6jf2wm.jpg

Its the Orange thing, in the instance is moving.

And I am wondering if that is some sort of a future raid boss? Snakes do play a role in the instance, the first boss is in Snake Form, the entrance area has literally hundreds of non-aggressive, non-elite snakes.

So, anybody have an idea?

It's possible that it is either an Aspect Snake Boss or even a Faceless One like Hakkar. The prospect of both is exciting, and I vaguely remember from my childhood some cartoon that revealed an entire room's walls to be a large coiled snake. I'd find a reprise to be pretty exciting

If I had to guess, I would say that it's quite possibly something that will show up in a Raid Dungeon later. Which would be exciting, since I was hoping they would begin to work on the Hakkar and Old God lore, to show if whether or not there was some connection.

Azurai · 09/03/08, 12:31 AM

Originally Posted by Steveharris

Yes. I seem to remember Uther saying something along the lines of how he won't stand for it (killing "innocents") and Arthas telling him to get bent because they're his people, he needs to kill them to save the rest, etc. At that point Uther bans Arthas from the KotSH and they ride off.

....stuff...

Interestingly enough, in Cot:S (which I guess you could consider more canon than WC3 because WoW has much more detailed scripting?) Arthas is 100% correct. As you enter the city people at the door are already complaining about sickness. The first part of the instance is basically you killing scourge with infinitely respawning zombies (600 hp, but GL w/ ressing) and Arthas + pals one shotting people as they run out.

As much as I hate Arthas for being an emodin, CoT:S kinda paints a different picture than the WC3 mission where you basically just walk around killing citizens with generic models and no scripting. It is kind of ruthless and he takes no chances, but I can't say his plan is really out of line with modern containment procedures in cases of biological attack or highly infectious disease. Granted the killing at the door part is more Resident Evil than RL (so far)...

Dancing Wu Li Master · 09/03/08, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Azurai

Interestingly enough, in Cot:S (which I guess you could consider more canon than WC3 because WoW has much more detailed scripting?) Arthas is 100% correct.

I'd consider it more canon simply because it's written more recently.

Regarding some of the previous World of Raids links

← Click Here

Liebestod · 09/03/08, 1:59 AM

Originally Posted by Azurai

Interestingly enough, in Cot:S (which I guess you could consider more canon than WC3 because WoW has much more detailed scripting?) Arthas is 100% correct. As you enter the city people at the door are already complaining about sickness. The first part of the instance is basically you killing scourge with infinitely respawning zombies (600 hp, but GL w/ ressing) and Arthas + pals one shotting people as they run out.

As much as I hate Arthas for being an emodin, CoT:S kinda paints a different picture than the WC3 mission where you basically just walk around killing citizens with generic models and no scripting. It is kind of ruthless and he takes no chances, but I can't say his plan is really out of line with modern containment procedures in cases of biological attack or highly infectious disease. Granted the killing at the door part is more Resident Evil than RL (so far)...

I actually have the opposite impression - maybe due to the fact that Arthas actually speaks to the Strat citizens before slaughtering them, it makes it seem more ruthless. No remorse at all.

And I am wondering if that is some sort of a future raid boss? Snakes do play a role in the instance, the first boss is in Snake Form, the entrance area has literally hundreds of non-aggressive, non-elite snakes.

I doubt it. There was speculation at some point that Gun'Drak was going to be a raid zone originally, which might explain why they'd include these kinds of things, but I doubt that there'll be a Zul'Drak raid instance against a snake boss. Do we really want another troll raid, anyways?

On a side note, I ran Ahn'Kehnet yesterday and noticed that at the end there were Forgotten One mobs... which had placeholder General Rejaxx models. The last boss (who has a neat mechanic that needs tuning) has this model as well. Now, if you remember, the Forgotten One in War 3 was the C'Thun-like creature... I can't imagine that these are really supposed to be Faceless Ones (whose models haven't been implemented yet) that had just been misnamed. Or maybe they're just retconning that lore. In any case, it's a nice hint of what's to come in the A-N raid. It's still sad to see what was once going to be a sprawling Nerubian city in a non-instanced Azjol-Nerub zone reduced to a little 5-man adventure, though.

Kumar · 09/03/08, 2:03 AM

Originally Posted by Liebestod

I doubt it. There was speculation at some point that Gun'Drak was going to be a raid zone originally, which might explain why they'd include these kinds of things, but I doubt that there'll be a Zul'Drak raid instance against a snake boss. Do we really want another troll raid, anyways?

Yes, I do want another troll raid, after I went through Gundrak and I realized that Blizzard has learnt tremendously from TBC and improved their instance design. A Lot.

I will have to keep an eye out during questing to see if there is any mention of this snake being.

← Click Here

True. But, have they added any more explanations this time in terms of what exactly are the Infinite Dragonflight's intentions?

Liebestod · 09/03/08, 2:07 AM

Eh, think of the opportunity cost. Lore-wise, Zul'Drak is probably the most irrelevant zone in the game, even moreso than Grizzly Hills. I would've much much rather seen it cut than Azjol-Nerub, but I can understand why the latter was more practical to exclude. Nevertheless, out of all the plotlines that Blizzard can develop, another loa god troll instance seems about as bland as it can get, even if ZG and ZA were pretty fun.

I don't think WotLK's instance design is fundamentally superior to TBC's, though. Yes, there are some new mechanics. And the instances are shorter overall. But the bosses don't seem that complex or interesting overall.

[Edit]

This isn't to say that Zul'Drak doesn't have a decent story to it, just that it ends at Gun'Drak and isn't tied to anything that happens anywhere else.

Azurai · 09/03/08, 2:43 AM

Originally Posted by Liebestod

I actually have the opposite impression - maybe due to the fact that Arthas actually speaks to the Strat citizens before slaughtering them, it makes it seem more ruthless. No remorse at all.

I didn't specify he had any type of remorse, just that he was doing what was technically right. He's still antagonistic but it gives a much better appreciation for how he fell. Arthas' character flaws are still the main reason he did what he did, but I'd say the story is a lot better now than the Revenge of the Sith treatment he had before where he was basically a raging idiot the entire time. At least now he's doing stuff that's necessary and vengeful bloodlust comes as a result rather than "Oh look the evil prince wants to kill people again..." He's a lot less 2d now; he seems a lot more like an inexperienced prince than someone I want to punch in the face because you can tell what he's going to end up as from the first conversation you hear.

Kumar: No. Infinite dragonflight are still very much serial in nature, its pretty clear Blizzard is saving the Bronze/IDF stuff for later. In fact, I'd venture to say its even worse in Wrath simply because we've already been introduced. They feel more like useless cartoon henchmen than ever.

Ivriniel · 09/03/08, 5:48 AM

Why are you using spoiler tags in a thread marked as spoiler heavy? Just makes it annoying to read :P

On a side note, given the aspect is present, is there any new information about what's going on in the Emerald Dream?

♦ Goatbert · 09/03/08, 7:40 AM

Yes, no spoiler tags was said at the start, and it is in the title so please don't use them, they are really annoying with this color scheme.

Originally Posted by Liebestod

On a side note, I ran Ahn'Kehnet yesterday and noticed that at the end there were Forgotten One mobs... which had placeholder General Rejaxx models. The last boss (who has a neat mechanic that needs tuning) has this model as well. Now, if you remember, the Forgotten One in War 3 was the C'Thun-like creature... I can't imagine that these are really supposed to be Faceless Ones (whose models haven't been implemented yet) that had just been misnamed. Or maybe they're just retconning that lore. In any case, it's a nice hint of what's to come in the A-N raid. It's still sad to see what was once going to be a sprawling Nerubian city in a non-instanced Azjol-Nerub zone reduced to a little 5-man adventure, though.

I agree on the 5-man thing - I was really looking forward to Azjol-Nerub being an "ourdoor" underground zone. I wonder if it was a technical limitation or a time constraint that lead to the way it is now. As for the Azjol-Nerub raid - is it confirmed there will be one yet? I thought I had heard mention of it before but a friend of mine in beta insists there are only 2 instance portals at this point and is under the impression that the current 2 instances are it, which would be a huge disappointment.

Alerian · 09/03/08, 9:12 AM

I don't have the post in front of me, but there was one that said that the plans for Azjol-Nerub were much larger than what was currently in the beta.

Liebestod · 09/03/08, 10:18 AM

Originally Posted by Goatbert

I agree on the 5-man thing - I was really looking forward to Azjol-Nerub being an "ourdoor" underground zone. I wonder if it was a technical limitation or a time constraint that lead to the way it is now. As for the Azjol-Nerub raid - is it confirmed there will be one yet? I thought I had heard mention of it before but a friend of mine in beta insists there are only 2 instance portals at this point and is under the impression that the current 2 instances are it, which would be a huge disappointment.

Time constraint, I'd guess... they probably decided that A-N wouldn't be able to make it for release sometime in the early alpha, and then they turned the work they had done on it into two instances. An A-N raid against Yogg-Saron was confirmed and will undoubtedly be a part of the content cycle, but not having A-N as a real zone kinda guts his lore, I'd imagine. So you don't just lose that, but it means that the game won't go into Nerubian culture at all (there aren't even any above-ground Nerubian towns) and... it would've just been a cool zone. I'm hoping they work it in somehow when they add the raid, but I'm not confident. They've already cannibalized their current work into the instances that exist now.

There was also just one portal in the Pit of Narjun until they added Ahn'Kehnet, then there were two. When they add the raid, they'll just add another portal somewhere.

Also, a blue made a post saying that A-N, spacewise, is much larger than the current instances cover. Which some people took to mean that they're planning to add A-N later, but I think a closer reading reveals that it just means that we're never going to see most of A-N. Nyah nyah.