Duodecimal

In order for Thrall to lose his shit over Garrosh dying to Varian, Garrosh needs to somehow be redeemed in Thrall's eyes prior to that violent death.

That would solve the problems of Horde players being relieved at losing a major jackass NPC (similar to Alliance applauding raids on Staghelm) and of Thrall's unwillingness to go to war.

 

Talgog

It also looks like, at least at the current stage of development, that he's supposed to be the lead in the (chronically delayed) Warcraft movie set up at Legendary and Warner Bros. Of course, that was pre-credit market failure but it's still alive.

Varian's not dying. I could see him killing Garrosh, or, more drastically, intending to kill Garrosh and killing Thrall if Thrall got in the way. That would surely set off a war and it, while being a pretty "cheap" death, would get around the fact that Thrall is a great elemental shaman who could drop a cliff on Varian.

 

Vaccine

Oh awesome, how original that the movie is centered around a hulking human warrior king as the main character. I'm sensing a DnD movie repeat. I'll especially enjoy the complicated scenes where Variann switches moods from Angst to Mega-angst and back again. Actually I'm suprised him and Hellscream don't get along they have so much in common.

E:
^
The only way Varian Wyrnn is killing Thrall is with several thousand soldiers. Thrall's Shamanism is depicted as to be on par with the mightiest spellcasters in the out of game lore, and thats on top of his hand to hand skills.

 

Ptoleman

<somewhat long post incoming>

Open war between the Humans and Orcs, along with the Dwarves, might make sense, but the Night Elves, Trolls, Tauren, and Draenei all have enough brains and emotional discernment to realize that Arthas is a far bigger threat. The Blood Elves likewise, now that they've cooled their heels and started wielding the Light. As nobody else but Varian/Garrosh have exchanged hostile words, it would seem that every other race and nation in Azeroth (in open or in secret) looks upon the old wives' bickering between Varian and Garrosh as silly and an exasperating waste of time and energy.

The Undead are as they've always been: out in left field plotting the end of the world and the extermination of all life on Azeroth besides their own. They'll go along with or oppose an inter-faction war based entirely on how it would serve their own purposes. My guess is they'd say little while the Alliance and Horde fought it out, sending token brigades to "support" the Horde while trying to manipulate the situation so as to best harm both Arthas and the factions.

As for PVP at large, it will always exist due to the will of the players. Besides, we've had what amounts to a lasting peace for years on Azeroth, especially in the days of BC when both factions were working pretty close together. No faction has truly been at open war with each other. The constant fighting in WSG, AV, AB, and such are more gameplay elements than actual political and military conditions in Azeroth, otherwise there'd be no hyping of "rumors of war" in Wrath, as we'd already be at it if both factions had been openly killing each other on certain fronts for years and years. It'd be foolish to extrapolate these into the true political sphere of Azeroth just as it'd be foolish to realistically describe Dalaran as a city no larger than a suburban block. In-game reality is much different from "lore reality," if you take my meaning.

---

From a political perspective, Melthu, any factions are pacts of convenience, but some have more reason than others to exist. The Alliance has a number of races allied consistently throughout history against common enemies and for common ideals, goals, etc. No doubt the Night Elves' membership is heavily influenced by their conflicts with the Orcs, but the Night Elves are also hardly friends with the Undead or the Sin'dorei as well. They have an ideological reason to be in the Alliance, although it's the weakest out of the five races. The Draenei are perfect (*cough* too perfect) for an Alliance race, being a very noble race with a history of Arcane magic and war with the Orcs that worships the Light. That's, what, 3 out of the 5 races that openly respects and reveres the Light? The Gnomes have a long history of communion with the Humans and Dwarves especially, so they've got plenty of reason to march under the Lion banner.

The Horde, however, has a number of sub-factions that make the faction much weaker if push comes to shove. The Tauren and Trolls are in the Horde largely because of the actions of Thrall. Otherwise they'd probably be content to go their separate ways, hence the reason Thrall most likely won't be killed off in WoW. As an aside, the Tauren have very good reasons to ally with the Night Elves. The Forsaken are, again, just there truly for convenience, and the Blood Elves feel more out of place in the Horde than ever. It made sense when they were an angered, somewhat immature people angry at the piss-poor treatment they received from Garithos and the loss of everything they loved, but now that they've gotten the Sunwell back (a fundamentally better one, mind you), they are truly in the Horde for convenience as well.

I would say that a number of Sin'dorei wouldn't mind going back to the Alliance, as they've far more in common with the Alliance as a society--the Light, Arcane Magic, the Kirin Tor, a bad history with the (albeit non-Darkspear) Trolls and Orcs--as well as a good long history of fellowship with the Humans, Dwarves, and Gnomes. However, they've largely burned their bridges with the Alliance with their actions in the BC, and although the Draenei have probably forgiven them, the Night Elves would probably never allow the Sin'dorei to re-enter. Either way, they've really got no other place to go.

The Alliance truly is an "Alliance," one made for a number of unifying military, ideological, and political reasons. The Horde is, sadly, more of a Horde: a jumble of races coming together over convenience, necessity, or camaraderie. So if Thrall dies or Garrosh starts running around killing people randomly, the Horde is more likely to divide while the Alliance might stick it out, even though they'd have plenty of reason to try to restrain Varian if they really needed to.

[edited for grammar]

Jeff Goldblum is one of the most powerful units in all of Warcraft.

Stealing Children for the Walrus Men since November 2008.

 

Ayreon

A question: obviously we will be required to slay the beast bosses or be slain by them - but how about the champion of the Alliance/Horde bosses (or some of the Argent Crusade bosses in the 5man) - surely we shouldn't be fighing them to the death in a friendly tournament and vice versa? ( I realise the NPCs will probably go green at 1% - but how about the players?)

 

Kumar

Killing Thrall can cause enough disruptions in the actual player base that people start faction-switching to Alliance.

 

Ptoleman

The in-game Horde is already a minority faction as it is. If Thrall got killed off the modern Horde's reason for being would vanish. Thrall is a cool leader, almost certainly cooler than Varian to the knowledgeable player. I doubt the Horde would collapse as an in-game faction if Thrall died, but I wouldn't be surprised if some more attached Horde types migrated to the Alliance if Thrall were to kick the bucket.

As has been said before, there are many, many reasons NOT to kill off Thrall.

Jeff Goldblum is one of the most powerful units in all of Warcraft.

Stealing Children for the Walrus Men since November 2008.

 

◊ Talanik

I don't know, perhaps you are seeing the Alliance as TOO much of an Alliance.

If you want to get deep into subfactions; the Kirin Tor and Argent Crusade, both primarily human organizations, bear no ill will towards the Horde. While they may or may not harbor old grudges, they are willing to put them aside for the sake of the greater good.

The dwarves, with all the lore we've seen about them this expansion, seem to be more focused on discovering their ancestry and exploration. If they were dragged into the war, it would only be because Varian would play the old alliance card, forcing the Dwarves to enter the war based on the Human/Dwarves long history together. Brann Bronzebeard, as the brother of the King, would undoubtedly hold quite a bit of influence over the political actions of the dwarves. The gnomes alliance seems to lay primarily with the dwarves, and lets not forget that lorewise, they are still devastated by the loss of Gnomeragan, and their population is significantly lower than that of the other Alliance races.

The Draenei have never been warmongers. Their shamans have been included into the primarily Horde Earthen Ring, and I'm sure after the events of BC, the bonds between the Aldor and Scryer have settled into a slightly uneasy mutual trust and friendship (Especcially now that the Blood Elves wield the Light and are under the protection of A'dal). While, as with most of the other races on Azeroth, they may harbor old grudges against the Orcs, surely they could understand that the Orcs were not themselves at the time, and did so against their will.

Edit:

I'm sure player deaths will be for a gameplay reason only. Wiping and repair costs are a part of a raid.

 

Leviathon

The Horde/Alliance champions in the raid most likely are going to die considering what Tirion says. The ones in the 5 man may not die though.

 

Galanna

I can see the following scenario:
- Jaina disapears
- Thrall learns some informations that Jaina was arrested as a traitor by Varian and imprisonned in location X
- Varian learns that Jaina has found some horrible informations about the horde in location X, but no longer reports
- Thrall asks heroes (Horde players) to join him at location X to rescue Jaina from Alliance (Garrosh opposes that Thrall takes an army with him to help a lowly human)
- Varian asks heroes (Alliance players) to investigate location X to check if Jaina was captured by Horde
- At location X, players arrives just in time to see Jaina and Thrall being captured by Y (?someone that players are sure is sent by Azshara, cue Maelstrom expansion?), and have to fight for their lives
- Varian/Garrosh do not even want to hear players explications (thanks to shady advisors?), accuse Horde/Alliance for Jaina/Thrall disparition, send an army to each others capital to rescue them, and cause an durable war

And after a long time (last raid of the next expansion?), we would be able to rescue Jaina/Thrall, but too late for them to revert the war caused by their capture.

 

Terp

The Horde truly is a horde though. It's a hodgepodge of outcast races united to prevent their own destruction. Saying that they would be fine splintering off is to ignore the reason they banded together in the first place. These aren't elaborate civilizations that can simply walk away and function on their own. Sure, they were united under Thrall but he was merely a facilitator. Simply having a hothead for a leader in Garrosh isn't going to inspire a bunch of Tauren to stand up and say "well we liked it better when we were being starved to death by centaur and harpies". The Darkspear and Foresaken would be wiped out how fast without the horde to shield them?

 

dustdog

Thrall dying is probably the one that makes the "most sense," you can do more with a bad guy than a good guy when it comes to stories. The problem with this is that, the disruption that gets caused within WoW; especially if a leadership change ends up only being temporary (Thrall>Garrosh>Varok). Something of such a magnitude would probably be in WC4 or WoW2, whichever comes first.


I hope they handle Arthas and Icecrown well, a Varian/Jaina/Garrosh/Thrall scene seems likely, but arguably none have a greater vendetta than Sylvanas, and something with Jaina that isn't horde/alliance related might be interesting too. It may be Warcraft, but it's still a world of mortals, and love exists. I'm not saying Arthas needs to be redeemed(is that even possible with no heart) and some love interest with Jaina forms (love triangle with Thrall, lol), but to have a strong and emotion-driven speech or what-have-you from Jaina could be stirring. Jaina's stock as a character has been increasing with the comic and the Ulduar trailer, I hope it's a sign that they're working to build up characters so that it's more than a leader and (essentially)faceless figureheads.

 

Leviathon

Blizzard has trademarked the named 'Cataclysm'. Since the Sundering is also known as a Cataclysm then I guess we can take this as further meaning the next expansion is the Maelstrom.

 

• Leguaran

e: deleted.

 

Mr. Crow

The possibility that this is related to the not-so-secret fourth Blizzard development team makes me think otherwise. I still think that the next expansion will involve the Maelstrom, but I don't think the registry of "Cataclysm" directly denotes that and nothing else.

Does anybody recall the trademark events for Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King? Did the trademark documentation actually mention "World of Warcraft" in the name? If so, then then absence of WoW in this trademark means it's probably unrelated. But if not, it's entirely likely that Leviiathon is right and "Cataclysm" will be the next Expansion title.

 

Tyrian

After reading Leviathon's post, I googled to get a few links discussing it in more detail:

BlizzPlanet.com - Everything Blizzard Entertainment!
Kotaku - What Does Blizzard Want With The Word Cataclysm? - Blizzard

Just a few months before Blizzcon, they trademark a word very synonymous with the Sundering and Maelstrom themes. Why would they just trademark one word though? Could the expansion title just be one word, World of Warcraft: Cataclysm? For "Wrath of the Lich King" and "The Burning Crusade" did they trademark exact wording, or just the key words.

Cataclysm Definition

The quote of a vision Arthas has in the recent novel:

The word Cataclysm obviously fits this quote perfectly.

 

◊ Cadfael

Gamescom Cologne (former Games Convention Lepzig) is from 19-23. August and Blizzard will be present. IF they are presenting the next expansion, and will let people playtest a bit, as they are usually doing, then they will need an USK rating (that's the German equivalent of an ESBR). USK does publicly announce their rating decisions. So about one or two weeks before the GC Cologne, you can just read it in their report, just like last time where this leaked the expansion name prematurely.

 

Mr. Crow

Decided to answer my own question: WotLK trademarked by Blizzard

The trademark for Wrath did not include "World of Warcraft" so this gives strength to the idea that "Cataclysm" will be the next expansion title.

Given all the associations with the Maelstrom and the apparently similarities in the trademark documents, it doesn't seem likely that they'd use Cataclysm for anything else on their plate right now.

This will be an exciting time, between now and BlizzCon.

 

Talgog

"World of Warcraft" is an existing mark. If you look at the BC and WoTLK box covers, you'll see how "World of Warcraft" is in distinct text and font from the expansion.

It's a somewhat complex IP issue, but you're correct in noting that they only marked the "new" stuff last time.

EDIT: In reading the Arthas vision, it sounds almost like the landmass itself might be coming back in some form.

 

Nathanyel

I read about that on wowwiki, too, but couldn't find any actual proof for Varian and Valeera appearing in the movie, except entries on imdb (which everyone can edit) which even have Valeera's last name mispelled.


On Cataclysm, WoW(Insider).com or whoever tipped them off noticed that the domain wowcataclysm.com expired on the same day as the trademark was filed, and is now held by GoDaddy, who apparently also handles other Blizzard domains. Could be a very strong indicator that "Cataclysm" is related to WoW. Some days ago, I stumbled upon an alleged leak of infos about the next expansion, which would include the Maelstrom and the islands in the Great Sea, plus some Emerald Dream zones. The basic premise is Azshara causing tidal waves all over the world, raising sea levels etc. Those events would pretty much be a cataclysm to the landbased races of Azeroth, assuming this text has any valid info. (which I doubt, though)
"Cataclysm" also is a lot catchier and stronger as a title than the then-proposed "The Depths of the Dark Tide"

 

Faldrath

That actually makes a lot of sense. If Azshara (or whoever) is ready to attack/reveal herself, making a whole continent surface again would certainly be dramatic enough. And it would also solve the technical problem of having a lot of underwater zones.

 

Mr. Crow

That "leak" has been linked before -- while some of the information might be valid or might point to certain possibilities in the design process, a lot of people have shot it down over credibility -- how, indeed, does a fluff employee get that much information out of people in the development staff?

Overall, the Maelstrom is one of the only locations on Azeroth that hasn't been touched yet by the game's development and has a bunch of existing information in the ancillary resources like the RPG books and novels. It's not exactly a leap to suggest that the Maelstrom is a part of the next expansion... though I can imagine people who were speculating on what Expansion #1 was going to be didn't see Outland coming. Much of the information at that time likely pointed to Northrend first.

As regards the movie, yes, I think that Varian has been introduced and is being made an important part of what's going on because they want him for the lead in the Legendary Pictures release. This has everything to do with making the film appeal to a wider audience -- though if even a small portion of the WoW playerbase endorses this movie, it's going to make huge amounts of money even if it's terribad. The bottomline is that it might be understandably difficult to sell Thrall as a heroic character who's the focus of the story, because in situations where you have an inhuman hero (Hellboy, or Shrek, for example) an important project of the film is that hero becoming human. That's not a project for Thrall -- he is what he is, and his humanity is pretty unquestionable at this point.

Of course, there's always the possibility that the movie project won't focus on Varian. Developing a human hero who is actually, y'know, heroic would be kinda nice.

 

Emeraude

The movie is supposed to be based on the first war actually.

Edit: Or not

The film was originally set in the era of Warcraft: Orcs and Humans. This was scrapped, however, as there were notions that it would be too similar to Lord of the Rings and that Warcraft had reached its current level of popularity through its MMORPG, rather than the previous RTS games.[1]

As such, the movie is set one year before World of Warcraft and will primarily told from the Alliance's POV, though Metzen says his heart lies with the Horde. Characters such as Cairne Bloodhoof, Thrall, and Bolvar Fordragon are likely to make appearances. Arthas is unlikely to appear.[1] The main character is set to be a new hero described as a "kick-ass Human". [2] Chris Metzen has stated that the new "kick-ass Human" character in the movie is not same one as in the comic (now known to be Varian Wrynn).[3] Interestingly enough, the film is described as the "first film", raising obvious possibilities as to future installments.

Concept art of Teldrassil was released in relation to the film (See above), hinting that at least some of the film takes place there, and perhaps, by extension, in Darnassus.

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For the lurking Phoenix Wright faithful.
What is the most important thing to you? Won't you grant me the pleasure of taking it away.

 

AJAlkaline

I think just the opposite, Nad. Allowing faction swap makes it so that players can decide which team they want to be on when the full war starts. Say you're an alliance player who thinks Varian is a douche-bag, well you'd be pissed when you start having to do quests to kill the horde for him when you don't agree with him in the first place. This way, they can afford to make "controversial" moves with their major lore characters with the added justification of "you don't like it, switch sides." It'll also make faction rivalry way stronger, as you'll no longer be stuck on whoever's side you happened to roll three years ago and instead you're fighting for the team that you picked.

 

muwatallis

After reading the speculation and the unknown proof of a new WoW expansion related to Maelstrom, i can't stop thinking that IF it is going to happen, how will the story do with it? Since "Cataclysm" is more of a destructive term, could it be that players may be sent back in time to the days of The Sundering?

The Dragon's Flight