Yeah, actually, I think this is really the other possibility. The idea being that Thrall isn't killed but he disappears and Garrosh takes over control of the horde. It's a great way to remove him from the story without upsetting the player-base too much, and it also sets him up for an epic return in the future.

Actually, the more I think about it the more I like that situation. It would allow Garrosh and Varian to butt heads unrestricted, but it wouldn't remove such an awesome lore character as Thrall. Instead, actually, it would allow Thrall to see a good deal more action than usual, we might get a comic story, book, or perhaps a series of quests that deal with Thrall attempting to return to his people and relinquish the title of warchief. It would certainly work well with Blizzard's desire to have Varian and Thrall's stories mirror each other.

Three possibilities, I guess:

1. Throwing a continent back to the surface is probably pretty cataclysmic.

2. Fighting Sargeras has involved time travel before.

3. Maelstrom, Sundering or South Seas are not sufficiently distinct as far as Blizzard is concerned from a mark/marketing perspective, and if you are going to reference it at all, you will therefore use Cataclysm.

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The WoW movie has been bouncing around forever and been delayed at least three times. Until there is a director, anything and everything is subject to change. Or not getting done at all considering how hard it is to get development money right now in Hollywood. Legendary got most of its funding from Wall Street and co-produced with Warners.

And the Warcraft playerbase, like the HALO base, is not enough to make a movie work financially. The figure that's been tossed around for this thing is $100m. You can add at least $50m for marketing. Your North American WoW playerbase is what, three million? At $12 a ticket, that's $36 million in gross, of which theaters get a cut.

A Warcraft movie would need a much larger audience than that.

I personally hate the idea of Varian being a lead in a movie, if only because he's a whole pile of fantasy cliches. Far from Metzen's most original work. Lost king, amnesia, elf buddies, kidnapped and trained as a gladiator (IIRC we have a Ridley Scott movie about that...), the list goes on.

A fourth reason could have it pointing at multiple events. First the ones, or just one of them, you suggested along with a full scale war breaking out which could be rather cataclysmic as well.

It might be premature, but I think the "Cataclysm" thing pretty much nails down that the Maelstrom will be the scene of the next expansion. I'd guess that the title refers to something (in addition to the Sundering) that will set off the events there - that, as foretold in Arthas' dream, Nazjatar will rise from the sea, presumably with many of the other areas detailed in the Lands of Mystery guide. Naturally, we get to go explore and kill stuff! This is also a way to avoid the tricky issue of all the Maelstrom areas which are currently underwater - adding a good underwater mechanic to the game would be difficult, so instead the areas will be raised up and presumably we'll just explore their terrestial versions. Which might make for some really cool scenery, actually.... raised ship graveyards, thermal vents, etc.

And I'd put 5:1 odds on Azshara being the main focus of the expansion, with the Tomb of Sargeras as a sideshow (kinda like how Kil'Jaeden was to Illidan.) Maybe you'll fight Sargeras in some form, but the box art is going to have Azshara on the cover.

Is it too soon to make a "Cataclysm - Lore & Storyline discussion" thread? D:<

Despite the links to the Maelstrom (Gotta love it when people spell it "Mealstorm" -- I certainly wouldn't mind a storm that dropped full meals on me), this description of the word's meaning could also mean what would happen when shit -- as in the shit that has been brewing this entire expansion -- gets real between the Alliance and the Horde.

Although the phasing system would probably have to be used on an incredible level to make it work without disrupting the 1-60 experience and any defections from existing major powers would in no way be allowed to disrupt the "faction balance", we could see the war between Varian and Garrosh in Northrend returning to the shores of Kalimdor and the Eastern Kingdoms -- only this time, it might not be restricted to a "lol renegade faction we now has control back kthxbai" incident like the Battle for the Undercity.

Edit:

It's sounding more and more like a straight race swap to me though, which blows that idea out of the water.

Edit 2: At least, that is, as far as the loyalties of our characters extend.

Edit 3:

I can imagine we'd get at least one Caverns of Time instance allowing us to go back in time to related events -- although hopefully not involving Rhonin, Master of Everything.

The more I think about it the more the name makes sense.

Think about it, the past expansions weren't called Outland and Northrend, and we didn't just head there because we felt like it. We need a reason for why we're suddenly deciding to head to the Maelstrom, and if Azshara is indeed bringing new landmasses to the surface and hitting the other continents with tidal waves etc. that's pretty cataclysmic, and it's a good reason to do something about it.

I immediately linked the word Cataclysm with the Great Sundering as well, but I think this is incorrect, I'd bet Cataclysm refers to an event still to come.

I wouldn't want to start a new thread for the next expansion until at least Blizzcon where details are revealed and it's confirmed, or maybe even until closed/open beta when things start leaking to give us a greater picture of all the stories that will go on out in the Maelstrom. At which point the mods could lock this one.

Keep in mind we still have 3.3 to discuss in coming months.

I'm sure there'll still be a fair bit, but going off of everything described in LoM, either we'd have 4+ zones that are completely underwater, or basically all the current Maelstrom content would have to be left out. If things are raised up, though, we'll be able to explore the LoM zones (albeit they'll surely be different for having been raised) without needing a huge new mechanic for exploring vast swathes of content.

It wouldn't be a shock for stuff to be raised, but I would at a minimum expect gimmick bosses underwater. Whole zones/BGs could be underwater if they bring in underwater mounts/vehicles. I would love to see the subs and turtles from Warcraft 2 return.
But we seem to be making a habit of killing off the people who could raise stuff from the maelstrom. Arthas doesn't seem to have much connection from anything we have seen so far and will probably be dead by expansion. I guess Azshara(or her boss) could raise her own city and that would be enough reason for us to go kill her. The factions with naval interests, Kul Tiras, Undermine, Gilneas(?) would all get involved then too. There doesn't seem to be as many lore holes as TBC that way anyway.

if I remember well Azshara was considered as the most powerful being on Azeroth in the RPG books.

Spending 10.000 years waiting undersea is quite long, even for an immortal being. Cataclysm has to be the vision of Arthas.

Azshara brings back her lands from deepwaters.

For the motive, it is still unclear to me. We can expect her to be megalomaniac and unfriendly with all surface dwelling races, but it's a bit thin for a complete expansion plot.

Maybe she wants to rebuild the Well of Eternity (aka Sargeras Resurrection Center) ...

Well, it seems to me like it's going to be straight-up invasion. Azshara brings Nazjatar to the surface and wants to wipe out anyone she can sink. Stormwind, the Exodar, Teldrassil, the Echo Isles, Silvermoon are all on the coast, and a big enough tidal wave could destroy Orgrimmar given it's proximity to the ocean. She wants to end the mortal races, and she wants revenge on the elven races most of all. I expect that we'll see a lot more in terms of elemental invasions or Naga incursions into existing areas, like the Scourge Invasion but more permanent. We have no idea what kind of resources Azshara's been cooking up down there.

The Steamwheedle Cartel is going to react this similarly to the Kirin Tor; someone's gotta nip this in the bud, and the Trade Princes will open up Undermine as a staging area if it means someone can roll in and sink the sea-bitch.

From a design standpoint, take a look at the break down of opposition we saw in Burning Crusade:

• Gruul and the Ogres in Blade's Edge
• Illidan and all his various forces; Vashj, Magtheridon, and himself in the Black Temple
• Kael'thas, initially as part of Illidan's crew but then working for...
• ... the Legion, represented first by Archimonde in Mount Hyjal and in the present by Kil'jaeden at Sunwell.
• ... and some interesting sidetracks into Karazahn and Zul'Aman that don't really have much to do with anything but tying up loose ends like Medivh and Zul'jin.

So out of the eight raids we had by the end of BC, three (Gruul, Kara, ZA) were either completely unimportant or only mildly connected to the storyline of the expansion itself. The rest of the raids deal with the Illidari first and then transitions into the Burning Legion being the more important project. But the Legion is ultimately the threat that everyone, Horde, Alliance, the Naaru, and everyone else in Outland, are interested in fighting.

Take the same look at what Wrath is shaping to deliver:

• Malygos and the Nexus War (Eye of Eternity)
• Yogg-Saron within Ulduar (Ulduar)
• The Guardians in Vault of Archavon (of which there will probably be a total of 4-5 by the end)
• Sartharion and the Twilight Flight (Obsidian Sanctum)
• The fight against the Lich King, from Naxx to the Argent Coliseum to Icecrown.

Seven raids, where only two (Obsidian Sanctum and VoA) seem completely tangential to the plot of the Expansion. Malygos and the Nexus War are the project of the Kirin Tor, and they get kinda coincidentally wrapped up with Ulduar at the same time, where Yogg-Saron is pretty well tied-in with the Lich King. The Horde, Alliance, and the Argent Crusade make the Lich King their project. So in this expansion, more of the raids end up seeming aligned well in getting us closer to the ultimate goal of downing Arthas.

So what can we expect in Cataclysm?

• Azshara and her Highborne
• A possible play from Neptulon (who shall henceforth be known as "Wet Rag*") and his Old God bosses
• A possible return play from Sargeras and the Legion, which will likely tie in with Azshara if past is prologue.
• Assuming all of the above get giftwrapped together, we can probably expect the Cenarion Circle to play Kirin Tor for us in handling Ysera/Malfurion and the Emerald Nightmare. I'm just really expecting that the Emerald Dream is going to be Cataclysm's "Nexus War" -- I think we can all hope that it just ends up being more relevant to the story.
• And last but not least, a possible play from Deathwing and HIS Old God bosses/Goblin cronies.

And we can probably expect all that in something like 6-7 raids, with 2-3 of those being Onyxia-style boss-encounters.

Am I missing anything?

* Since Ragnaros is Ragnaros, Thunderaan is "Wind Rag" (or Wind Bag), Ahune is "Frosty Rag", and Murmur is "Whalesong Rag." Hurray creative model recycling!

Apart from her own ambitions, Sargeras is going to be another reason in my opinion. It has already been shown that he is planning to return and consume Azeroth; Varimathras was summoning him in the Battle for Undercity questline and Blizzard have gone ahead and voiced it in 3.2 confirming that it was indeed Sargeras that Varimathras was summoning. Since Varimathras failed, it would make sense that Sargeras would contact the only other being that tried to summon him into Azeroth ages ago.

Players were always speculating how Blizzard could possibly make a villain for the next expansion that's as threatening as Arthas. What better way than to provide not one, but two mega villains (unintentional meme there :P) that have their place in the lore in Azshara and Sargeras?

Azshara is more a Goddess than the Highborn she was.

But she still has her peoples and I'm not sure she dislikes her own planet enough to bring Sargeras wiping everything on earth (and probably under water).

Perhaps I underestimates the madening influence of an Old God, but no Old God would ever ally with a Titan of any sort, even the Dark One if he wants to destroy Azeroth (Old Gods are strongly tied to Azeroth).

I don't see Azshara following orders of anybody, but I don't see her threatening the existence of Azeroth. Seeking revenge on surface dwelling peoples is ok, blowing the all world is not.

Erm, Azshara was quite okay doing this when she was a Highborne. She thinks that if Sargaras comes, they can recreate the world in perfect beuaty and splendour - once they get through the whole "trashing everything that moves" phase.

This has been brought up a lot and its something I disagree with. The strong parasitic symbiosis between the Old Gods and Azeroth is pretty much confirmed, but I still don't think that the Old Gods originate from Azeroth. Harbringer Skyriss in Arcatraz anyone?
Harbinger Skyriss - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

Azshara is mad. Since when did mad people need a reason for doing weird stuff?

One of the RPG books I read once said the Azshara was officially a demi-god now on par with Cenarius and the other Ancients. I'd hate to be a Night Elf if this is the expansion!

I guess the Twilight Dragonflight will play out more and we may even get another excursion from the Infinite Dragonflight, something to do with the original well imploding or one of the parts of the original Deathwing Storyline maybe, to tie into current events.

E: As for fitting it into the Emearld Dream we still don't know what is behind the nightmare. Hakkar is still my bet, some people think Archimonde or an unnamed Old God, perhaps it is Azshara. There was also the "leaked info" that said it was due to tidal waves wrecking the land which caused lots of disruption in the dream.

Aren't we still missing a new Guardian of Magic and a new head (Aspect) for the blue flight?

Just wondering because I kinda would have expected that to be in 3.2.

The new Guardian will mostly likely only be mentioned in the comics since there's not even a reference in wow about it so far. The same is probably true for the new Aspect of the blues seeing as Blizzard seems to have finished the blue storyline in wow for this expansion

It looks like they just abandoned the Nexus War after the horrible end that was the Malygos fight and the few lines of text from Sapphiron's key. I guess they will be making a book/comic about it that might give us some information but as they're still developing Med'an in the comics that might be some time.

Azshara was, for lack of a better term, outright omnicidal. She literally stood at the ramparts laughing as Legion troops massacred her own Night Elves. They die along with everything else to rebuild the perfect world with Sargeras. She was also personally powerful and vicious enough that she intimidated Mannorath in person. As in he was going to tear her apart until he realized that she could and would do the same to him a lot more easily.

Much moreso than Arthas, there was never anything there to talk to. Arthas at least fell for misguided good reasons and had some spark of humanity left even as the Lich King. Azshara was always really horrible - a lot of her status as beloved super beauty was enhanced by her own manipulative glamour magic - and was corrupted by "let's crush the world together."

I do not believe we will see underwater combat too widely used. Just think of all the underwater areas you fight in, they are quite annoying due to the nature of hitboxes. I just think off the evading murlocs in borean tundra and the vile reef being a total pain in vanilla.

At the poster above me it really sounds like Azshara and Sargeras will most likely make a perfect lore couple for the next expansion.