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Old 03/03/09, 1:48 AM   #2341
Liebestod
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Elune
Is Malakk even referred to in the ingame lore? I have to admit that I never really paid attention to the Gun'Drak lore, I think... the specific characters and whatnot there aren't really tied to the lore, there's no real culminating fight, etc. I could see there being a raid there in 3.2, but... I don't think anyone really wants that, beyond the fact that the troll raids so far have been pretty fun.

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Old 03/03/09, 2:55 AM   #2342
Leviathon
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Originally Posted by Liebestod View Post
I don't think that it's been hinted at that the Emerald Dream will get its own expansion.

I mean, I imagine it will since there's enough content in the South Seas already, especially if you include Gilneas and Kul'Tiras, for a full expansion.

But it's also difficult to imagine how an Emerald Dream expansion would work... would it just be Azeroth redone with lots of pretty colors? A set of verdant zones of various themes? Would it tie into existing lore well, or would there be a bunch of ED-only factions and characters?

Personally I have a hard time imagining how an ED-oriented expansion would be as engaging as the others... sure, you have the Nightmare, probably related to Archimonde and/or an Old God, but that's about it. It'd be like having an expansion based around, umm... Azjol-Nerub. It's just hard to imagine there being enough variety there. I imagine it being combined with the Elemental Realms possibly (if Blizzard ever wants to deal with those), but there's the same problem there.

It'd be nice to say an "Azeroth: Loose ends" expansion that would just throw all these things in together (Emerald Dream, Elemental Realms, Pandaria, Azjol-Nerub, Grim Batol, Uldum, Hyjal, maybe the "empty" zones on the map..), but obviously that won't happen.

One thing I will say, though, is that I do find it believable that you'll see Old Gods developed as the real true villains of the WoW universe... maybe to the point where, yes, they ended up corrupting Sargeras. They might receive some serious development in Ulduar, and then it's pretty much guaranteed that there are at least two more which will be dealt with in subsequent expansions. I wouldn't be surprised if the next step in their development would be to allow players to directly interact with them (like all the Arthas cutscenes) or their high-ranking minions in order to learn their story firsthand.

Of course, problem is that players will eventually just roll their eyes - "another expansion, another Old God to kill." So hopefully Blizzard will find ways to keep things fresh.

I got bored a while back and started writing up how I thought the South Seas expansion would play out lore-wise. Deathwing controls the Venture Company! Sargeras is attempting to possess Med'an and controls the Stormreaver Orcs on the Broken Isles! Azshara begrudgingly works alongside Neptulon, trying to free Yet Another Old God. It's kinda fun to do, but I keep having to change things up as new details become available. Namely, if we end up taking down Deathwing in 3.2 I pretty much have to rewrite everything.
Well dismissing the Emerald Dream as it's own expansion based on how it would look is similar to how people were like 'o yay snow!' when Northrend was announced. Need to remember that Kalimdor before the Sundering was much more different than Azeroth is now and there is the entire middle portion of the old continent that no longer exists now. I could see them making a pretty interesting continent with quite a bit of variety other than just pretty forests.

But yea there just is so much that could be thrown into a Maelstrom expansion that the only way the Emerald Dream would be added is in the form of just a regular instance and hopefully they wouldn't pull a Azjol-Nerub with it.

Least there is quite a bit that would be in a Maelstrom expansion.

Originally Posted by Liebestod View Post
Is Malakk even referred to in the ingame lore? I have to admit that I never really paid attention to the Gun'Drak lore, I think... the specific characters and whatnot there aren't really tied to the lore, there's no real culminating fight, etc. I could see there being a raid there in 3.2, but... I don't think anyone really wants that, beyond the fact that the troll raids so far have been pretty fun.
I think they did to Malakk what they did to Warlord Jin'zakk who was the leader of the Amani before they decided to make Zul'jin a bad guy.

Last edited by Leviathon : 03/03/09 at 3:02 AM.

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Old 03/03/09, 3:00 AM   #2343
Kaejin
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Mal'Ganis
This may seem like a bit of a cop-out answer, but does anything in The Descent into Madness really need to make sense? The name itself could explain why there are elegant stainglass windows depicting the Old Gods and mermaids and ghost-babies, in addition to the floating debree and whatever else.

Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.

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Old 03/03/09, 4:02 AM   #2344
Dubbleutyeff
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Destromath
I really don't think Gun'drak will be revisited as a raid. I know I'm only basing this off of two raids, but troll raids have traditionally never been the bleeding edge of progression, and have served as raiding alternatives for smaller groups, a concept that doesn't exist anymore. I have a hard time believing anything in Gun'drak could be viewed as a bigger threat than what we face in Ulduar.

I think Blizzard wants to keep 3.2 a secret. Sunwell was announced 7 months before it was released. I've found articles 9 months old where Tigole is talking about Ulduar as a T8 raid. Devs said at Blizzcon 08 that Icecrown Citadel would be Patch 3.3. And we know nothing about what 3.2 holds in store. We'll most likely find out what 3.2 is via a talk at WWI 09 this summer. Maybe a Blizzcast before then if we're lucky

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Old 03/03/09, 5:55 AM   #2345
Vaccine
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Originally Posted by Kaejin View Post
This may seem like a bit of a cop-out answer, but does anything in The Descent into Madness really need to make sense? The name itself could explain why there are elegant stainglass windows depicting the Old Gods and mermaids and ghost-babies, in addition to the floating debree and whatever else.
I thought it might be a warning or a chronicle of:
1) Well of Eternity explodes, Highborne sink to the bottom of the sea.
2) Highborne make deal with old god (I saw a window depicting YS but can't find it on that panorama).
3) Highborne can breath underwater/evolve to mermaidy type creatues (took a while for their full nagaesque likeness to appear.

Don't think the timeline works out though if we assume it is titan made.

Think the "Ghost Babies" are likely just baby merpeople, with a tadpole like tail.

If we're sure they aren't just decorative they could mean:
1) Something about the naga as said above, maybe mid-mutation.
2) New undiscovered race (potential allies against Naga) that the titans created, possibly an early race that the Curse of Flesh afflicted. It follows that the Titans would have to have some sort of underwater creatures similar to the Earthen for use when then need arose to shape the land/ build anything underwater..
3) One of the titans REALLY liked The Little Mermaid.

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Old 03/03/09, 8:53 AM   #2346
Entropie
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Draenor (EU)
A few not-so-related remarks about the possibilities remaining for 3.2.

- Having closed off the Azjol-Nerub lore in the two instances, an Azjol-Nerub raid for 3.2 seems unlikely. 'Moving' Yogg-Saron confirms that. However, I imagine Blizzard does have loads of unused and underused Azjol designs. Since they want to relate Arthas to every (other) instance, or at least I hope they still want to do that, I can imagine that the 3.2 raid would be "Caverns of Time: War of the Spider". This solves the unused AN assets, and ties in the main theme of the scourge.

"Ultimately Ner'zhul's war against the nerubians was won by attrition. With the aid of the sinister dreadlords and innumerable undead warriors, the Lich King invaded Azjol-Nerub and brought its subterranean temples crashing down upon the spider lords' heads."In-game book: War of the Spider

- At this time we might be overusing the CoT-schtick, but Blizzard has mentioned that it still is a magnificent tool to experience previous epicness, so they wont throw it away by giving a conclusion to it this soon. My personal theory about the Infinite Dragonflight is that the bronzes are dual in nature. One part going forward in time, and one going backwards in time. This might be intended, imbued by the titans to roam backwards in time when they die and try, with their omniscience, to prevent dire catastrophes. Or, it might be that their deaths are unnatural and corrupted versions spawn with a whole different agenda. This does explain the Bronze's inability to directly combat the Infinite, and their way of using 'mortals' whom cannot be corrupted.

This, or I'm too big a fan of the Shrike.

Last edited by Entropie : 03/03/09 at 8:55 AM. Reason: spelling and formatting

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Old 03/03/09, 9:58 AM   #2347
Faldrath
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Why is everyone forgetting the 4 unused chambers in Wyrmrest when discussing 3.2? The fact that the Black chamber is small doesn't mean the other ones need to be... if Blizz wants, they can put enough content in there for a major patch.

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Old 03/03/09, 12:27 PM   #2348
Leviathon
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Originally Posted by Faldrath View Post
Why is everyone forgetting the 4 unused chambers in Wyrmrest when discussing 3.2? The fact that the Black chamber is small doesn't mean the other ones need to be... if Blizz wants, they can put enough content in there for a major patch.
A Wyrmrest instance is always possible but I think if one was added it would still just be a short instance and not a main instance similar to Ulduar or Naxxramas.

We will be finding out soon in a comic/book who the heir is to Malygos and so that gives a bit of a reason for the Blue Dragonflight chamber with a blue dragon refusing to accept the new Aspect (which is likely going to be Kalec considering he disagreed with Malygos or Tyri). The Red Dragonflight chamber could deal with the Black Dragonflight attacking it to some degree, the Green Dragonflight chamber obviously could be a Nightmare corrupted Green Dragon and the Bronze Dragonflight chamber could deal with the Infinites.

I think the Chamber of Aspects is going to be similar to CoT with them just opening a new chamber(s) for example in the next expansion. With this expansion I think the only options are the Red Dragonflight chamber being attacked (which would work out perfectly in 3.2 if Grim Batol is the secret raid) or a Blue Dragon.

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Old 03/03/09, 12:46 PM   #2349
Liebestod
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Elune
Yeah, it's possible that 3.2 could focus on CoT: Blue, with the issue of Blue Dragonflight succession being the overarching issue. Maybe they'd actually complete Crystalsong at that point. And then, you know, Dalaran might actually tie into the story.

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Old 03/03/09, 2:27 PM   #2350
AJAlkaline
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Runetotem
Hm, you know, a lot of people felt that the whole blue dragon storyline was really cut short, what with Malygos being the very second raid. It seemed odd for a storyline that spanned multiple zones and was sort of an expansion selling point, though it is obvious that the storyline was cut back on, what with how Crystal Song ended up.

Now, this might not be very likely at all, but what if Malygos were to pull a Kael'thas? When he dies, he falls into the void, you don't get to see a dead body. They could bring in Crystal Song as a Quel'danas sort of thing, and have him back in the Chamber of Aspects, trying some last ditch effort to bring about some magical catastrophe. It would certainly make sense for Blizzard to keep it a secret.

Of course, with this sort of thing they tend to have a good deal of foreshadowing, and I don't think anything that happens in the Malygos fight really makes you think "Oh, he's coming back". Rather, it's pretty final, especially how Alexstraza is about it.

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Old 03/03/09, 3:26 PM   #2351
supplicium
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Alterac Mountains
Ok, I got to say something.

There are very few bosses that can/should pull a "Kael'thas". Hell the only reason Kael'thas pulled that move was to toss in a boss in an instance no one cared about and give some people a chance to, in some way, experience the fight that was one of the hardest, longest fights in TBC pre nurfs/out gear.

If I have to fight a zombie Malygos I'm going to be very disappointed. The only real bosses I can see pulling some of these moves are MAYBE KJ, Yog and C'thun. But beyond that there are very few bosses who deserve "A second chance" let alone have the ability/resources to make it happen. The idea that we keep suggesting bosses might "Kael'thas - it" back into another instance is a really bad way to look at things.

The character linked in your profile appears to be below level 10. This may account for your poor Patchwerk DPS.

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Old 03/03/09, 3:41 PM   #2352
Starfire
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Dragonblight
Kil'Jaeden is not dead. We will see him again.

Also, somewhat unclear as to what happened to Ragnaros. Can you really kill an Elemental Lord? Or is he just banished back to the Elemental Plane? (and/or if he does die, is there a new Elemental Lord?).

I've always wanted a rematch with Nefarian and Onyxia though. Simultaneously. I wouldn't mind if in some raid-instance Onyxia and Nefarian have been necro'd.

Originally Posted by arison View Post
Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.

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Old 03/03/09, 3:51 PM   #2353
Blackins
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Undead Warlock
 
Dawnbringer
Does anyone else feel like killing Yogg-Saron would just be "too huge" of an event to happen in one encounter / one instance? He's the source of saronite and has numerous locations all around Northrend, from corrupting the tree in Grizzly Hills to whispering you in Howling Fjord to one of his massive maws at the Weeping Quary. I find it difficult to believe that it would all end in Ulduar.

I kinda bought it with Kael'Thas too. He was the leader of the Blood Elves and arguably one of the most powerful men in Outlands. Having him become resurrected and move his eyes to the Sunwell wasn't that farfetched.



I really hope that 3.2 is Azjol'Nerub, either in a Caverns of Time form or a real new instance. The changes to The Old Kingdom to include a new hallway that seems pretty random - why would they change it if not for some long term purpose? I personally like the idea of fighting Yogg-Saron in Ulduar and having him lose and then submerge back very very deep into Azjol'Nerub. I mean, look in the Old Kingdom and the first portion of Azjol'Nerub - you're still VERY close to the surface, and yet this kingdom is supposed to go hundreds of thousands of feet into the earth.

It could also play into the titans storyline. If Blizzard made it somehow that you had to fight Yogg-Saron before you were able to engage Algalon, then Algalon could be trying to report back that Yogg-Saron had gone back into the depths and that the only possibility was extinction. When you go back to Rhonin, Rhonin could convince the Titans to give you (the raiders) one last chance to extinguish Yogg-Saron for good.

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Old 03/03/09, 4:31 PM   #2354
Leviathon
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Originally Posted by Blackins View Post
Does anyone else feel like killing Yogg-Saron would just be "too huge" of an event to happen in one encounter / one instance? He's the source of saronite and has numerous locations all around Northrend, from corrupting the tree in Grizzly Hills to whispering you in Howling Fjord to one of his massive maws at the Weeping Quary. I find it difficult to believe that it would all end in Ulduar.

I kinda bought it with Kael'Thas too. He was the leader of the Blood Elves and arguably one of the most powerful men in Outlands. Having him become resurrected and move his eyes to the Sunwell wasn't that farfetched.



I really hope that 3.2 is Azjol'Nerub, either in a Caverns of Time form or a real new instance. The changes to The Old Kingdom to include a new hallway that seems pretty random - why would they change it if not for some long term purpose? I personally like the idea of fighting Yogg-Saron in Ulduar and having him lose and then submerge back very very deep into Azjol'Nerub. I mean, look in the Old Kingdom and the first portion of Azjol'Nerub - you're still VERY close to the surface, and yet this kingdom is supposed to go hundreds of thousands of feet into the earth.

It could also play into the titans storyline. If Blizzard made it somehow that you had to fight Yogg-Saron before you were able to engage Algalon, then Algalon could be trying to report back that Yogg-Saron had gone back into the depths and that the only possibility was extinction. When you go back to Rhonin, Rhonin could convince the Titans to give you (the raiders) one last chance to extinguish Yogg-Saron for good.

There was no change to the Old Kingdom instance. The instance always had that random hallway since the instance itself is cut out of the original AN zone.

Originally Posted by AJAlkaline View Post
Hm, you know, a lot of people felt that the whole blue dragon storyline was really cut short, what with Malygos being the very second raid. It seemed odd for a storyline that spanned multiple zones and was sort of an expansion selling point, though it is obvious that the storyline was cut back on, what with how Crystal Song ended up.

Now, this might not be very likely at all, but what if Malygos were to pull a Kael'thas? When he dies, he falls into the void, you don't get to see a dead body. They could bring in Crystal Song as a Quel'danas sort of thing, and have him back in the Chamber of Aspects, trying some last ditch effort to bring about some magical catastrophe. It would certainly make sense for Blizzard to keep it a secret.

Of course, with this sort of thing they tend to have a good deal of foreshadowing, and I don't think anything that happens in the Malygos fight really makes you think "Oh, he's coming back". Rather, it's pretty final, especially how Alexstraza is about it.
Alexstrasza took the Heart of Magic (which will be used to empower the new Aspect) from his corpse so he is dead for good.

*Big Edit*

Voiceovers for Ulduar have been added and there is voiceovers for Ysera, Neltharion etc. which is going over the creation of the Demon Soul. It seems to be a vision part of the Yogg-Saron encounter and gives a pretty big hint to who the Old God that whispered Neltharion is in my opinion.

There are MANY other voiceovers for characters such as Garona, Arthas, and Llane with 'vision' type things.

The Rhonin voiceovers basically do make it seem the Titans decided destroying Azeroth was the best option which explains the quest. When dying Algalon mentions how the freewill of the races of Azeroth allow them to overcome any odds and make them superior to any Titan creation. In turn he re-arranges the code he was going to send to say that Azeroth should not be destroyed and the message is later sent in Dalaran by Rhonin.

Last edited by Leviathon : 03/03/09 at 5:56 PM.

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Old 03/03/09, 6:44 PM   #2355
KTalisman
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Tauren Warrior
 
Aman'Thul
Partially backtracking a page to the next expansion speculation, the idea of having the Maelstrom expansion serving as a kind of 'loose ends' expansion to wrap up the Maelstrom, Emerald Nightmare and Deathwing stories isn't entirely inconceivable.

They could easily place a single Old God as responsible for:
- The Highborne's corruption and subsequent transformation (the Naga, Azshara, and Nazjatar would have to be a focal zone/raid in a Maelstrom expansion)
- The corruption of Neltharion (weakening the dragonflights and lessening their ability to react to threats such as...)
- The Emerald Nightmare (the Old God may very well have only learnt about the Dream from the Highborne).

Not to mention the Emerald Dream is a world untouched by mortal hands, therefore no Great Sundering, therefore a single continent of Kalimdor which is geographically right on top of the Maelstrom. Of course the Dream is another plane and it therefore doesn't sit on the Maelstrom in a real world geographical sense, but it's still pretty convenient isn't it?

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