Having read the "War of the Ancients" trilogy, I have no doubt at all that the typical rank-and-file Naga is not the least bit loyal to the old gods -- Azshara herself would not tolerate it. She must be their center of attention, and any deviation from that will not be tolerated. To the extent that they worship old gods at all, I expect they do so through her, her handmaiden Vashj, or others from her inner circle.

It happened with the Draenei. They went from pitiful wretches to space-Rambos and space-pornstars. Who knows what havoc Metzen could unleash upon the Naga?

Pitiful wretches that walked upright on 2 legs, and had 2 arms, so already humanoid.

Work on the Brady guide started VERY early in F&F beta...ye olde days back when dorfs could be mages, when priests had sleep, before AH and Mail existed, back when they had skill points you had to assign to skills like mount riding, when warlocks could summon ghosts inside instances so they could res themselves, etc. As such, there is alot of lore meant to become gameplay sprinkled in there, as well as long dead concepts and gameplay mechanics (like drinking/eating in combat). That's the nature of the MMO beast. They actually had 2 teams, Alliance and Horde, with the alliance being the 1st obviously and the oldest info as a result in many cases.

They had to stop work on the guide and put it to press literally a couple weeks before they unrolled the MASSIVE change to the paladin class that completed retooled their mechanics. That's why they had the idea for the binder version...the original idea was to issue updates people could print and put in the binder, although I believe that was scrapped once they realized it would be a huge undertaking.

I joined their Horde guild because I knew most of them from EQ1 and NWN on AOL. My name is in the back under the special thanks section ;P

All this talk about Azshara and The Old Gods has me excited again over the possibilities regarding the sort of Raid Zones and Raid Bosses we are going to see over the next expansion or two. So many interesting locales and characters that have still yet to be introduced into WoW. Personally, I see the next expansion being Maelstrom and The South Seas, like most people. The big question is where and if The Emerald Dream fits. I still think it's best served as its own expansion pack, so I'm predicting for the purpose of this post that we see it as expansion pack four.

So anyway, I feel like throwing some ideas out there. How would these locales and encounters sound for the next six tiers of raiding.



Maelstrom Expansion


Tier 11
Tomb of Sargeras
Boss - Xavius


Tier 12
The Rift
Boss - Neputalon


Tier 13
Imperial Nazjatar Palace
Boss - Queen Azshara




Emerald Dream Expansion


Tier 14
???
Boss - Ysera


Tier 15
???
Boss - Malfurion Stormrage


Tier 16
???
Boss - New Old God "Shubs"




It's pretty obvious we are going to be venturing into the Tomb of Sargeras at some point. Obviously that means it's going to need a big bad villain to have a reason for being there. What better villain to introduce than Xavius himself. He ties into the Maelstrom expansion perfectly and is a prominent powerful figure in warcraft lore. In addition, we currently do not know his whereabouts or whether or not he is even alive or dead. Blizzard can easily place him in the Tomb of Sargeras with the intentions of having him trying to summon Sargeras back into the world. He could either be still working alongside Azshara, or working off on his own. Either way he ties in really well.

Now some Old God stuff. We know Azshara and the Naga were corrupted by one of the Old Gods. We also know one of the Old Gods are behind the corruption behind the Emerald Dream. Why not make it be the same Old God behind both plots. We could introduce him in the Maelstrom expansion, build him up, then deliver up as the main villain in the Emerald Dream expansion. For the sake of discussion, lets nickname him Shubs, based off the Lovecraftian Old God Shub-Nigurath.

Through a series of quests in the Maelstrom Expansion, we learn that Shubs is behind the corruption of the Naga and Azshara. In addition through questing, we learn that he is no longer present within the Maelstrom and has departed into the Emerald Dream to wreak havoc there. However, to keep his presence known amongst the Naga, he leaves behind Neputalon to "oversee" things while he is gone to make sure Azshara doesn't get too uppity. Blizzard would probably need to invent a good fleshed out locale for him to be residing in, but he could be easily worked into his own raid tier. Then to finish things off, we could confront Azshara inside her Palace within Nazjatar in the next tier of raiding.

We would never see or encounter Shubs directly throughout the entire Maelstom expansion, but with the build up and foundation laid out, he would be fleshed out enough to be introduced as the main villain in an Emerald Dream expansion. The First Tier of Raiding inside the Emerald Dream could be all about taking the fight to a corrupted Ysera with the aid of the Green and/or Red dragonflight. Ysera can be slain, or redeemed, it really doesn't matter after Malygos. The next tier could be all about defeating a corrupted Malfurion Stormrage, who we know is also inside the Emerald Dream. Malfurion is certainly popular enough and powerful enough to be used a super villain. However, we wouldn't slay him, but rather instead he would be cleansed from his corruption, setting up a climatic showdown with Shubs aided by Malfurion.

Anyway, sorry for rambling on. I love talking about this sort of thing. I'm such a lore junkie.

Xavius seemed to be pretty killed by Malfurion when he was turned into a tree. Course I guess they can go into the entire how he was a Eternal and did not actually die thing. I have my doubts about seeing the Tomb of Sargeras as a instance since I thought it was entirley caved in by Illidan but I guess I can see Blizzard having a non caved in part as a instance just due to how big of a place it was in WC3 though.

I think it will end up being 2 separate Old Gods with the Maelstrom and Emerald Dream since then it works out pretty well having 1 Old God per expansion and continues the story that really got started in WotLK.

By this point. something epic like the tomb of sargeras will be a 2 minute instance with 0 trash, a teleport to the last boss who gives you loot by talking to him, he then teleports you back to your home city and mails you a thankyou letter for visiting him with a bag full of potions attached.

But seriously, don't forget Cho'Gall! We have been fighting these Twilight Cult since Blackfathom Deeps to Slave Pens to Ahn'Kahet. I can't wait to see the boss of these guys.

Yawn at 3.2 rhetoric. Wasn't the Tomb of Sargeras caved in anyway after Illidan and Maeiv escaped, and since retconned that it was just an avatar of Sargeras anyway?

As for the Naga culture I think they are probably heavily influenced by an Old God still. The striking similarities between General Vezax and some of the Naga makes me think that they are the same powers that mutated the Forgotten ones as the Naga, and we know the mutation didn't happen over night so presumably it was continued worship for a few thousand years.

The RPG text books state that Azshara due to her transformation and inherent power from before the sundering is now basically a demi-god in power level, equivalent to that of Cenarius/Agamaggan, etc... It also says Xavius had become a demi-god, and survived his tree incident to continue to convert Satyr's.

All of this is very Alliance/Night Elf orientated though, wondering how they're going to tie the Horde into it.

Note that, although the surging sunken city theme that comes across in the Arthas novel points to Cthulhu, he's already taken. Alas. So, no Nazjatar-Rlyeh parallels.

Shub-Niggurath (two g) is a perverted version of a fertility goddess ("The goat with a thousand young"), which would make it a good match with the matriarchal-oriented Naga.

I would think Xavius could work better in an Emerald Dream expansion. Trash his body twice so his essence migrates and assists in Dream corruption. Satyr seem more Nelf/Dream aligned than Maelstrom aligned, even with Xavius' tie to Azshara.

Also, I suspect Shub-Niggurath would fit Emerald Dream better. Dagon seems more fit for a water-themed Maelstrom expansion. Murlocs have always seemed like Deep Ones to me, so having Dagon down in the water makes logical sense.

So I'd see tiering more:
Neptulon the Elemental Lord
Dagon the Old God
Azshara

Because the Lore characters always become more powerful than Old Gods*. Go figure. Yeah, I know - gameplay requirements break lore power comparisons.

I also wouldn't be surprised at the initial quick-raid being Tomb of Sargeras with some revenant of Gul'dan brought back just so we could smack it around. Or some acolyte wannabe trying to return Gul'dan to life.

* - On that topic, when will we see the Retcon that the Argent Champions killed Yogg before starting the challenges?

With Xavius, what if he would be the entire instance? We could visit a sub-zone which is a haunted corrupted forest, sorta like Felwood 2.0, but much older. In the center of it could be the giant evil tree Xavius which is made up of a couple of instances, like one being the roots, the other the trunk and lastly the upper branches.

Xavius could be still directing the Satyr in tree state, projecting his spirit while his body is rooted in place. The final objective of the instance would be to destroy his core, and end the menace once and for all.

This would provide a new opportunity to create a unique dungeon based around the tree. I do not think it would be raid level, but could make a batch of fun five mans out of it. As to what expansion it would be best for, well Emerald Dream is the better fit, but with a heavy Azshara themed expansion, the area could be fit in an oceanic one easily. Just have the haunted forest on one of the many islands out there. Perhaps the Xavius strong magic helped the area survive the Sundering?

Now for Gul'dan, there is a very easy way for us to fight him. Make the Tomb of Sargaras be a CoT instance. We could travel back to the time of the old WC2 mission, and fight him there. We could even be what tore him apart in the first place. The description was pretty vague, wasn't it?

If we go to the Tomb of Sargeras I could see it being in a CoT instance type way with Gul'dan in it. Least that way they can keep the lore that it caved in but still let us go inside. If Cho'gall keeps thing sup then he probably would end up wherever the new Old God or Neptulon is.

Well the trolls could have some reason to go there to see the island they inhabited if it wasn't totally destroyed after the little event. Overall I could see Blizzard using whatever new race gets added (if one is added) as the main reason for going to the Maelstrom or in the end they could just fall back on 'Yea Azshara is trying to kill us all now'.

*cough* Goblins? And yes, since they have been supplying the Horde with all manner of technological services, it seems fair that they request some sort of military aid when their homeland suddenly gets invaded. And the Horde should be very interested in helping them, otherwise they'd find themselves suddenly unable to match the Alliance in the field.

Well you can compare and Old God to a large animal, a cow or even an elephant, and the players to kolibris. Now, the elephant can throw around his trunk* and run around, and will kill some unattentive birds, but when those birds somehow find access to the behemoth's brain and start pecking at it, that might seriously injure and even kill him, at least he's gonna be incapacitated from the neural shock, seemingly dead in the birds' eyes when he crashes into the ground.

* thanks to the many people telling me the correct term through private messages Seems LEO wasn't that good here, should've checked PONS right away.

Probably in a future comic, at it happened with Onyxia, probably even in the currently running one, if it continues to focus on Varian.

IMO the best CoT instance for Maelstrom would be the Sundering. You have to infiltrate Azshara's Palace while Malfurion, Tyrande, and Illidan all try to stop her from opening the portal for the Burning Legion. Maybe you're tasked with some behind-the-scenes bit like trying to sabotage the ritual somehow as the Infinite Dragonflight tries to make it a success. Or maybe you have to help free Tyrande from her prison or help Krasus in someway or whatever.

I agree that the best CoT instance for Maelstrom would be something revolving around the Sundering. However, the Gul'Dan thing would be awesome also, and allow us to do battle with him. Although, there is no preventing Blizzard from doing both scenarios. The Sundering could be a simple 5-man, with Gul'Dan in the Tomb of Sargeras being a full fledged raid instance.

Also, somebody mentioned Cho'Gall again. I would definitely like to see Cho'Gall implemented as his own Final Boss in a raid zone somewhere along the lines. However, I think he is best saved for an Old God themed expansion down the line where the Twilight Hammer Clan plays a huge role.

The only unifying factor I can think of in the whole CoT theme is they would all, directly or indirectly, allow for the Burning Legion to "win".

Durnholde: Kill Thrall, thus Thrall would never be there to help stop the Burning Legion or break the blood curse brought about by Mannoroth

Black Morass: Horde never comes to Azeroth, thus the Horde is never there to help stop the Legion.

Hyjal: The most blatant, because the Legion is -right there- trying to open a portal

Stratholme: Kill Arthas before he becomes a threat to the Legion/allies with the Lich King. With Frostmorne never found, the Lich King would lack that edge which would eventually allow him to betray the legion.

Of course, the question is: Do the flight server the Legion, or are they corrupted by Old Gods because the Old Gods know the only way they can escape their prison is by hijacking the Legion portal after it is created?

Well if Gul'dan would be in a CoT instance, it would follow that pattern. If Gul'dan is not slain there, then his skull doesn't not become a relic. The skull has been an extremely important item in the recent history of the world, so many key events are linked to it. It set off multiple domino effects when it was used a few times.

Stopping the Gul’dan from dying, and thus his skull becoming an artifact would be a big goal of the Infinites because of that. You can hit multiple birds with one stone, including messing up the time stream of two worlds instead of just Azeroth.

Has anyone considered the possibility of putting an entire expansion inside CoT?

I havent seen this suggested up to now, but there are 10,000 years of relativley undocumented history between the War of The Ancients and modern WoW. If you look at the timeline, everything in the modern game has occured in roughly the last 30 years. We know next to nothing about what happened in the centuries immediatley following the Sundering. It looks like fertile ground if you wanted to create continents that dont exist in the current world, or bring back races that might now be extinct. The possibilities for story telling without needing to retcon much, when you have a 10,000 year time span, are interesting.

Has often been suggested, but I can't see it coming. From a gameplay pov, not everyone would like it, and it could get boring pretty fast. From a lore pov, until now, the Bronzes have allowed us to help them fight the Infinites who tried to alter certain, important events. Unless the Infinites would try to alter many, many points in the timeline at once, or somehow manage to move a large force into a certain time, the Bronzes won't allow us to stay in the past for more than the duration of an instance run. And I don't think the Infinites have the numbers to pull that off, not to mention their losses in CoT1, 2* and 4, else there would've been a major offensive on the Bronzes/the Caverns of Time by now. Of course there's the fights at the Bronze Dragonshrine, but they don't seem to gain any ground there. Then again, these attacks could be why we, the players, have to go prevent them in the CoT instances, too many Bronze dragons are required at the shrine.

* I think at least Aeonus was a pretty high-ranking member.

Spoilers for World of Warcraft 21, from WoW #21 - SPOILERS - Scrolls of Lore Forums

Still haven't gotten my issue yet. *Grumble*

-Meryl takes in the Dread Lord that was inhabiting Valeera and is able to control it
-They all teleport back to Theramore to find Garona gone. Aegwynn finds out Med'an is Medivh's son but they don't tell him yet.
-Maraad was the one who freed her, he took her back to Onyxia's Lair. He is her Uncle. He said that Gul'dan took his sister to breed with one of his warriors, which is how Garona was born. Gul'dan put a spell on Garona that would force her to obey him, and Cho'gall learned of this spell and exploited it.
-Valeera (and Med'an following her) find Maraad and Garona sneaks away while Valeera fights Maraad. She meets up with Med'an and talks about stuff and says she is going to stop Cho'gall. Med'an breaks up the fight between Maraad and Valeera and Maraad tries to heal the damage C'Thun did to his mind. He promises to teach Med'an the ways of the Holy Light in the future.
-Everyone goes back to Theramore and they ultimately decide to reform the Order of Tirisfal because the Alliance and Horde are busy dealing with the Scourge in Northrend.
-There is a nice scene where Bolvar goes off to Northrend and Varian and Anduin talk about war vs. peace (Varian says that war is needed now to stop the Lich King, but he hopes afterwards Anduin's time of peace can come).
-Cho'gall goes batshit crazy and goes hunting for Med'an again.

What about an instance where u are in part of the cave that didn't collapse and the final fight has a timer on it where the actual boss fight starts destroying the enviroment and if you dont kill the boss in time (enrage) the cave collapses on the raid.