Camaris

Random observation:

- TBC added Draenei and Blood Elf. Both races had a unique, new class to offer for each faction (Paladin and Shaman, of course... for all intents and purposes new classes to the Horde and Alliance respectively).

- WotLK added a new Death Knight class, with new 'undead' cosmetic changes for all the races.

- Cataclysm will add 2 new races, but what I'm wondering right now is.. what will be their draw? Why would anyone want to reroll an old class with a new race, cosmetics and minor racial buffs aside? So should we maybe expect some kind of extra features to make new races stand out?

 

Tyrn

If Goblins/Worgen are to be new races, what is the encentive to roll one and start off all over at level one? Blood elves/ Dreanei had once faction exclusive classes, and that was plenty, even for raiding guilds to reserve a slot for them.

However, even with the heirloom items, it would take quite a long time to reach level 78 to start on the new content. The release of new races would be a good incentive to open up a Death knight-like level advantage at level 55 or 65 at character create.

And here's to hoping its semi-worgen. I kinda have a fondness for shape-shifting. :P

http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/8412/tar2fv0.jpg

 

Ukerric

With phasing, you can have two versions of the starter areas. You have a level 80? You start in the level 68 phase. You don't? You start in the level 1 phase.

That assume, of course, a more heavily scripted starter area than usual for a new race.

Worgren can of course go thru a fast-forward version of the fall of Gilneas : they start by invading Gilneas, converting humans and slaughtering resisters, until they get involved into a race-changing event, which stabilize their natures (basically, DK redux, with a more positive slant, as the Worgren actively seek their redemption, instead of being betrayed by the lich king and turning traitors. Bonus points as the late stages involve cleaning up Gilneas of the feral worgren pockets that want to remain beastly savages).

Goblins would have a similar story, facing whetever peril threatens them, and ending up with one of the Trade Prince seceding from the official Undermine position, and the goblin player following him.

 

Camaris

Nice work. Maybe you could start as level 1, but big Battle of Light's Hope Chapel-like events could quickly provide more levels. More a story-driven progression from level 1 to 55-ish than a grind, similar to how talents and skills are introduced in the Death Knight starter zone.

 

Vaccine

Also don't assume that the start level will be the standard 1-20 affair. It is quite possible they could extend it to level 30 or 40 by offering either a larger zone or accelerated levelling. This keeps in line with their continual levelling speed increases.

As I said a few weeks ago when we were discussing the possibility of Worgen as a potential race, the ingame and RPG sources both paint Worgen as pure evil. Due to this I think it is fairly safe to say that the Worgen playable will be from Gilneas and were infected and found a way to control their curse after wiping it out from spreading to others. It is very likely that the Greymane Wall could have been shut to keep it in rather than keep the scourge plague out.

It does raise questions why the Humans would accept them into the Alliance willingly when an almost identical story for the Forsaken saw the humans turn against their ex-lovers friends and family and try to kill them.

 

Aezoc

I disagree, as everything we know about the worgen points to them as a race that wouldn't ally with anyone. The WoWWiki article cites multiple RPG sources where worgen are described as thoroughly evil. In-game, there are no non-hostile worgen - even the cursed hybrid worgen in Pyrewood Village become hostile to everyone when they shift, despite being friendly to Alliance in human form. The suggestion is that the curse is more than just shapeshifting, that the victims lose control when they become worgen. There's been absolutely nothing in-game to suggest that they would ally with anyone; even Arugal had them turn on his wizards after summoning them. And as someone else pointed out, if the Alliance is willing to accept Gilneas humans that have become cursed worgen but overcome their natures, it raises the question as to why they're trying to kill the Forsaken who are their friends and family who are in the same situation.

Fake edit: The one, very small counterpoint that just came to mind as I was going to submit this is [Torment of the Worgen]. Reading it gave you a chance to turn into a worgen as a purely cosmetic change; you kept full control of your character.

 

Emeraude

We could see the return of Plainsrunning.

The Worg while very similar to the Wolf IS a unique mount-style creature.

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Jessamy

They could accomodate this wild nature of the worgen with their racial. Perhaps something akin to the rogue Killing Spree talent -- a significant gain at the cost of temporary loss of character control. I'm not sure how that would work for a healing class though. Maybe two different racials on a shared cooldown.

 

Cranberry

Remember that there were no friendly Death Knights pre-Wrath, but the KOTEB were worked into the game's structure quite well. There's no reason the Worgen couldn't have a Light of Dawn-style redemption involving Elune.

 

Randyll

Well the worgen were summoned by a sentinel of Elune, too, at one point, so an alliance with the Alliance isn't exactly far off. You could easily tie their hatred to the Burning Legion into the lore and work upwards from that. Then again, speaking sardonically, you could as well pretty much do anything you want with them and stamp "A wizard did it" all over it.

 

Talgog

The Ebon Blade aren't really redeemed so much as pissed off. Darion is relatively redeemed, but he still sanctions acts that would be atrocities committed by the Argent Crusade or anyone else. No one is really that comfortable with them, which frankly feels right. Not only are they undead monstrosities, they're really, really powerful in the lore. As in send one on a suicide mission and he kills all the Scourge/Cult of the Damned and tortures a lich of all things.

-

The Worgen could be more acceptable to the Alliance than the Forsaken were because, frankly, they're not undead. Walking corpses are just creepy, nevermind that undead = Scourge. Worgen don't have the same negative associations.

 

Ashen

The Worgen have to be able to do one simple thing: Turn back into humans at some point, and that alone would be a driving force to be accepted by the Alliance. Factor in the Elune connections, and the Night Elves gain persuasive leverage. If the Emerald Dream is not too far off, despite Varian's attitudes, he's going to have a hard time saying no to Tyrande if she wants to pursue this.

As far as leveling and what not is concerned, there's a TON of ways Blizzard could go about doing this. Extremely fun options include a storyline leveling experience, with accelerated levels, where you sometimes gain several levels at once. What would be better is being able to play this story line since way, way before now. Imagine this:

As Worgen, you start your story as you are infected. This means around the time the wall goes up. You get to basically play out the Worgen micro-story while outside factors take place in the world (Vanilla WoW: Molten Core, Blackwing Lair, Ahn'Qiraj, Naxxramas; Burning Crusade, Wrath of the Lich King) and you arrive at level 58 caught up with the time line.

For Goblins, it starts a bit simpler than that. You get to experience learning the trade, the Goblin culture, and begin to see slight shifts in understanding and tension. You get to learn first hand of the past lore concerning Goblin dealings with Deathwing and the like, and when the Naga / Deathwing start to attack the Goblin structures, tension reaches an all time high. Who to ally with? Do Goblins even ally? And when a Trade prince ships off on his own, you get to accompany him. What would be a really great part of the leveling experience, would be to some sea zones. An entire leveling section that takes place at sea or on different islands, and you travel from one to another, until you make it to Orgrimmar or something of the like.


With cut scenes and such, you could make this part of the leveling curve far more unique than any before it. It would be similar to a lot of single player RPG's, but with an added element of MMO community.

 

Monocle

I can think of some good reasons strategically why the Alliance would want them. This is assuming Gilneas will be the starting zone, btw. Anyway Gilneas is in a great spot in the Old Kingdoms to strike at Undercity. Not likely there will be an opportunity to be just teleported there in the future like what happened during the Battle of the Undercity. It is also easily defendable, no one still has breached the wall, and that entrance to the country is a bottleneck. Gilneas is also filled with resources that can be used for such attacks, and with it's ports, an easy way for the Alliance to funnel troops in. It's a perfect staging ground for any attempts to attack the Foresaken lands.

Politically too there is a difference if Greymane or any of his kids are alive, and I doubt Blizzard would ignore the opportunity to use him. Greymane, even if he was a big arrogant jerk, was a member of the original Alliance, and could use that to at least get to the negotiating table. Him being around, even if transformed, also means the country's original royal lineage is still in control, Sylvanas is an usurper after all.

The rest of the Alliance would likely not like the Worgen, and they certainly did not like Greymane in the past, but they would be stupid to ignore the opportunities that would be gained from admitting them.

 

Monocle

Well I admit the spider thing is a little out there, but I do have a good source for it. One of the WoW concept art pieces did have a Dwarf riding a spider. It is likely from the time when Blizzard was trying to figure out what mount to give them. Originally it was going to be a boar, but that didn't work out, and the ram was finally settled on. It was a cool piece of art, and spiders would give Blizzard the chance to bring back an arthropod mount. The AQ mounts are locked up in the instance pretty much.

 

• Spleen

Doesn't Varian have a childhood connection to Lord Genn Greymane? Let's assume there's an Alliance Worgen faction in Gilneas, with Greymane as it's leader. Couldn't a personal connection, at least formed when Varian was a child petitioning the Alliance, establish a justification for him to view the Worgen differently from the Forsaken?

If Worgen could also revert into human form, which would be an interesting racial, wouldn't this make their 'pursuit of a cure' an easier sell than that of the Forsaken?

Phased leveling v. character conversion via infection? Interesting ideas. The latter would be a bit lopsided as to the introduction of goblins, which have been around since WC2.

Isms and ologies. Give me facts.

 

Jessamy

Unless they make new races into "hero" races similar to death knights (you can only have one, and you have to have a level 55 on the server already), any sort of level skipping will create balance issues in the long term. Powerful high level characters won't be abandoned, but new people to the game will choose the race that skips levels, and people will roll alts on the race that skips levels. Further, Blizzard is implementing a variety of ways to accelerate leveling already: the RAF program, BG xp, mounts earlier & cheaper. These methods benefit all 10 current races, and would be made irrelevant if the first 55 levels are optional.

Even anticipating no leveling advantage at all, I intend to play through at least the starting quests on any new races Blizzard gives us. The DK starting zone quests were fun, full of lore, and new.

 

Mr. Crow

I can see the likelihood of a Plainsrunning-style racial, since they're reducing the mounting casting time across the board. If we needed a justification for why that part of the Mount System change is occuring, this would certainly contribute.

Then again, are we giving Worgen plainsrunning because it's a cool mechanic or because we can't justify them riding on the backs of animals that would normally be spooked by a huge bestial predator? I'm thinking horses and rams would take issue with it. Elekks are huger, and nightsabers are angry predators themselves... I guess it's really just a matter of believability.

Something else on the Worgen that I find interesting... the Sprite Darter quest chain is obviously steeped in Night Elf lore. One stage references the baby sprite darter hungering for wolf-flesh, which the quest-giver explains as possibly having to do with "Elune's plan for the elves." Why would Elune provide an ally to the night elves that hungers particularly for wolf-flesh? Why too would Elune send a Scythe that summons the Worgen into Azeroth? Did she even send it or was someone playing a trick on Sentinel Starsong?

Questions, questions, questions... countdown to BlizzCon for answer time.

 

Nathanyel

Do copy something I wrote over at the SoL forums:

To elaborate on that thought, you could create a Level 80 Worgen Warrior on Alliance side, then change him to a Level 80 Orc Warrior. Just because of this, I don't see "hero races" with a higher start level* coming.
There also are other ramifications, reasons speaking against this concept: You'd be limited to classes that are available for the opposing faction's new race, so I guess both won't have paladins/priests, Goblins/"Alliance premades**" probably won't have hunters, druids and probably also no shamans***, Worgen/"Horde premades" won't have mages, and druids also are rather unlikely, even if the playable Worgen are "reformed".

* They might improve "old-world" content though, as they did with Dustwallow, and/or improve the itemization of quest rewards etc.
** because it has been described kinda like that, with differing levels of gear quality, of course, but I'd guess they'd just evaluate the medium gear quality and give e.g. blue dungeon gear, heroics/Naxx10, Naxx25/Ulduar10 and so on... of course only for level 80 characters, ones below that would have a respective set of gear for every 5/10 levels, rounded down.
*** though they probably need at least one healer class to be better than Gnomes :P

 

Talgog

Plainsrunning would make tremendous sense for Worgen. They don't look natural riding most mounts - I'm sure they'd still be allowed to buy them - and, well, any Alliance who did the Grizzly Hills chain knows that those buggers are damn fast on all fours.

 

Itzena

The Zandalari home city, perhaps? They've been portrayed as neutral and willing to work with both Horde and Alliance up to this point, and a neutral 'Horde' city would make a nice contrast to the neutral 'Alliance' city in Northrend.

 

Camaris

Isn't it also more or less established that Worgen can leap and run extraordinary fast? Remember the Grizzly Hills chase quest on horseback?

Since the Scythe of Elune itself was not really expanded upon in WotLK, we may still wonder what happened at that time. Was the Scythe really some artifact belonging to Elune? And if so, could it be that it was purposely designed to contact the worgen world? Perhaps there is some ancient connection between Elune and the worgen that we simply do not know of yet? It could theoretically even connect to things like the War of the Ancients or the Emerald Dream.

Oh, and I kind of like the idea of Zuldazar as the neutral city. Although I'd find it odd if Undermine became exclusively Horde.

 

• Spleen

In the order of most likely inclusion to least likely, with shaman and paladin tied:

Priest
Priests are the baseline "healer class" lorewise, requiring only a belief system. Both races could fit this easily.

If the Worgen PC's are cursed humans, there's already a foundation established, subject to changing circumstances.

There's big money to be made in religion and we don't know much about Goblin theology, if any. Who's to say they don't have a type of theological capitalism like the Ferengi in Star Trek? Blizzard isn't exactly known for resisting the urge to pay homage to pop-culture.

Shaman

Shamans just require a connection to spirits, elements, or nature. With the introduction of Dranei shamans, anything's possible for a Worgen race that either has a newfound or preexisting connection to animal instincts/likeness. Goblins, less likely so, unless something changes to give them a connection. They're responsible for the Goblin Shredder and Venture Company deforestation, after all.

Paladin

Paladins require a more direct connection to the Holy Light, be it stolen from or given by the Naaru or Celestials. It can go either way for both Worgen and Goblins, but blizzard would need to establish a foundation. If Worgen are cursed humans, it's possible that their paladins still retain that connection. It would be interesting if Goblins "stole or coerced" their connection to the Holy Light like the Blood Elves did, but that hasn't been established.

Druid

Druids have a preexisting connection to Cenarius as PC's, with other druids being noted as practitioners independent of those teachings. Blizzard would have to establish a foundation for Worgen and Goblins. There's just no information or precedent for either group to be druids, even based on the patterns for class inclusion we have.

Isms and ologies. Give me facts.

 

Trickytrout

It is going to be interesting to see how the new leveling experience for the new races plays out. I predict a lot of players (specifically high end raiders) will level a toon opposite of their faction before the expansion is released. Once it ships they all faction transfer to the new race. Hell, that's what I'm going to do that is for sure.

Any thoughts on this?

 

Nathanyel

Most probably, they're gona deactivate faction changes to that race for the first few weeks.

 

Moror

Who knows when the final date for the faction transfer is, although I imagine it will be before 4.0. Even still, I highly doubt they will allow faction change to the (possible) new races, at least not for a few months/patches after 4.0.