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Old 09/18/08, 5:26 PM   #401
norg
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Goblin Warrior
 
Draenor (EU)
Maybe in the Alliance fight Putress divulges the existence of the plague that Sylvanas has been working on? If that plague is meant to take out Scourge and living alike, I can understand why Wrynn might be a little bit pissed off at that.

Either that or she says "Thrall made me do it!" and Wrynn is just like "Oh ok, I'll go kill him then".

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Old 09/18/08, 7:12 PM   #402
Emeraude
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Sargeras
Originally Posted by norg View Post
Maybe in the Alliance fight Putress divulges the existence of the plague that Sylvanas has been working on? If that plague is meant to take out Scourge and living alike, I can understand why Wrynn might be a little bit pissed off at that.

Either that or she says "Thrall made me do it!" and Wrynn is just like "Oh ok, I'll go kill him then".
Your first scenario makes the most sense. I said that a few pages back, a Plague of that level would make the Alliance view the Horde as a threat on equal standing with the Scourge.

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Old 09/18/08, 7:51 PM   #403
Ashen
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Firetree
Judging by the look of the faceless ones... there are some very slight but exaggerated similarities between them and Hakkar. I can't tell if I'm imagining it, or if they really are there. Maybe i want to believe that he ties in, a bit too much.

Originally Posted by Caniki View Post
Hey guys, I heard that Blizzard puts out these things called "patches" that contain "content"
Originally Posted by Darkside View Post
Yeah but it hasn't happened since Ulduar.

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Old 09/18/08, 8:39 PM   #404
Monocle
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Durotan
Maybe during or after the Putress fight, the Alliance also stumbles on the little back room where all the people to be experimented on are held? Don't think that would help the situation either.

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Old 09/18/08, 8:58 PM   #405
Oaken
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Uldum
Originally Posted by evisania View Post
I hope Blizz fine tunes this instanced questing mechanic. When leveling my deathknight I got to the Light's Hope Chapel battle part, rode down to the area, and it was over. I was able to talk to a mob and finish the quest, but I apparently missed the fun part based on the timing of when I ported into the area.

However, I may have been able to experience it if I had just stuck around for a while until it restarted. Not sure if that's how it is intended to work or not. I'd seen a video of the event so I knew what should have happened, but other players may not know and not bother sticking around.
You can, in fact, do it properly. When I had the same thing happen to me - walked in on Tirion Fordring's speech and suddenly had the "Quest completed" message pop - I simply abandoned the quest and returned to the guy who started it to pick it up again. Five minutes or so later the deathknights had reformed and I did it properly. I would imagine it works the same way on this type of quest. Just don't turn it in.

Or better yet, wait in the original area until the heroes reform.

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Old 09/18/08, 10:27 PM   #406
Jagiya
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EDIT: Sorry, this was already posted. Delete please!

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Old 09/18/08, 11:45 PM   #407
Starfire
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Night Elf Priest
 
Dragonblight
This quest is so teasing: The Brothers Bronzebeard - Quest - World of Warcraft Brothers... plural.... WHAT DOES IT MEAN? (yes yes, I am sure we all "know").

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Old 09/18/08, 11:55 PM   #408
Jagiya
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A'dal (Icecrown) - NPC - World of Warcraft
Now why, oh why would A'dal be in Icecrown? *ponder*

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Old 09/19/08, 12:18 AM   #409
Liebestod
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Elune
A'dal comes to Icecrown as part of the quest to save the paladin who's infected with undeath. A couple Naaru appear with him... K'ure I think, and I forget the other.

It's kind of a silly questline though, really... "the Naaru are paying attention to the events in Northrend, we're just not doing shit except saving this one Paladin. Just be thankful that Blizzard still acknowledges our existence at all."

I need to keep a running list of sorely-underused characters in WotLK. Khadgar and the Naaru, of course, would be on it.

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Old 09/19/08, 12:21 AM   #410
Jagiya
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Hmmm. That's a bit silly. After our assistance with Illidan and the Sunwell, you'd think they'd be more likely candidates to come and lay down the law at the Wrath Gate - not Alexstrasza.

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Old 09/19/08, 1:44 AM   #411
Tirin
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Undead Mage
 
Lightning's Blade
Well, you have to believe things aren't being wrapped up as cleanly as the quests and the story may appear. Even if Illidan and his commanders are dead, there is still a significant demonic threat in Outland, as well as his various forces scattered about. We may strike the winning blow in the battle for Outland, but the war isn't over. The Naaru are concerned first and foremost with the Legion, so their attention should remain on that side of the Dark Portal.

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Old 09/19/08, 2:36 AM   #412
Randyll
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Vashj (EU)
The reason why Varian attacks Thrall can be found in the details here: Quest:The Battle For The Undercity (Alliance) - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

It seems that Varian is really pissed at the Horde, for various reasons, number one being Bolvar's death. His judgment is apparently blinded by the hatred he built up against the Horde when he was an arena slave.

Reminds of the Proudmoore vs. Horde thing. Oh god I love Blizzard!

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Old 09/19/08, 3:05 AM   #413
SpaceDrake
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Shadow Council
It does make sense. Dude has reason to be incredibly pissed at the Horde in general. Consider: orcs burned old Stormwind to the ground when he was a kid, orcs harried him and his people across the sea, orcs killed his father and mother, indirectly orcs killed his wife and caused his kidnapping (if Stormwind had never burned the Defias never would have come into being), and now the Horde managed to nurture the very thing that killed the man who was essentially his son's godfather. I can totally see him finally snapping and going "Fuck this shit."

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Old 09/19/08, 3:28 AM   #414
Randyll
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Originally Posted by SpaceDrake View Post
It does make sense. Dude has reason to be incredibly pissed at the Horde in general. Consider: orcs burned old Stormwind to the ground when he was a kid, orcs harried him and his people across the sea, orcs killed his father and mother, indirectly orcs killed his wife and caused his kidnapping (if Stormwind had never burned the Defias never would have come into being), and now the Horde managed to nurture the very thing that killed the man who was essentially his son's godfather. I can totally see him finally snapping and going "Fuck this shit."
Haha. Yes it does. I love the way they've taken a clever route with the story, instead of going all care bear and "We fight for a common cause", instead they add in characters that despite of all good reasons have still causes to be incredibly hostile to each other. It's like in literature, you don't want your favourite character to be killed. In the same way, you don't want this to happen...

Still, plot- and lorewise, this was obviously the smartest choice -- I mean, Horde and Alliance both hate the Scourge, so why not join arms? Oh, that's not possible, because Varian hates Thrall's guts. Thus we still have the factions alive and warring instead of taking the logical route, allying against an unstoppable enemy and beating it.

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Old 09/19/08, 3:46 AM   #415
Emeraude
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Sargeras
Originally Posted by Randyll View Post
The reason why Varian attacks Thrall can be found in the details here: Quest:The Battle For The Undercity (Alliance) - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

It seems that Varian is really pissed at the Horde, for various reasons, number one being Bolvar's death. His judgment is apparently blinded by the hatred he built up against the Horde when he was an arena slave.

Reminds of the Proudmoore vs. Horde thing. Oh god I love Blizzard!
I don't know about the rest of you, but now I'm kinda hoping Arthas does break free. Can you imagine having both Varian and Arthas as Alliance leaders? That would be downright amazing, 2 ridiculously angry/passionate Humans leading our forces in a War against the Horde. :0

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Old 09/19/08, 4:33 AM   #416
xiaoxin21
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Originally Posted by Emeraude View Post
I don't know about the rest of you, but now I'm kinda hoping Arthas does break free. Can you imagine having both Varian and Arthas as Alliance leaders? That would be downright amazing, 2 ridiculously angry/passionate Humans leading our forces in a War against the Horde. :0
Even if Arthas breaks free, he do not have much credibility left in the alliance, after all he killed his father and destroyed his kingdom. I would think the Alliance forces detest him more than the horde.

Why are there Brown and Black Polar Bears?

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Old 09/19/08, 4:34 AM   #417
Ivriniel
Piston Honda
 
Human Paladin
 
Outland (EU)
Does Ysera do anything so far btw?
I've heard about one quest where she asks you to bring some seeds or something (think on the earlier pages in this thread) but it didn't sound like alot really.

Was hoping she'd be alot more involved.

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Old 09/19/08, 9:06 AM   #418
Starfire
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Dragonblight
I imagine A'dal is still needed to sit in Shattrath to protect it from the Legion. Iirc, one of the quest or maybe Khadger almost states explicitly A'dal's power is the reason Shattrath is safe.

Also, the Naaru are not very powerful individually, and there aren't many of them to begin with. A'dal is powerful, sure, but the power of the other Naaru appear considerably weaker. In fact, of all the Naaru I can think of, A'dal appears to be the only one of any significant power. M'uru still gets slaughtered by 25 people. Xi'ri sits outside Karabor using Scryer and Aldor forces to attack. K'ure doesn't even show up until the island is re-taken. There's that guy in Nagrand that's for all intents and purposes trapped (or so it appears).

There is one thing I don't get, if someone would mind explaining: why exactly are the Nagas working with the Black Dragonflight and does Dr. Weevil fit in to the story?

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Old 09/19/08, 10:04 AM   #419
Typhon
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Orc Warrior
 
Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by Randyll View Post
The reason why Varian attacks Thrall can be found in the details here: Quest:The Battle For The Undercity (Alliance) - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

It seems that Varian is really pissed at the Horde, for various reasons, number one being Bolvar's death. His judgment is apparently blinded by the hatred he built up against the Horde when he was an arena slave.

Reminds of the Proudmoore vs. Horde thing. Oh god I love Blizzard!
Yeah, the first thing that struck me from a lore perspective upon reading this is Varian would fit right into the Scarlet Crusade (Onslaught?) with the amount of blood vessels that he's bursting. I haven't seen the full text of the Horde version yet (its not on WoWWiki) but judging from the summary on Wowhead it looks as if it'll likely be much more sympathetic and level-headed (with Thrall that's a given though)

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Old 09/19/08, 12:52 PM   #420
Leguaran
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Human Paladin
 
Uldaman
So far, I have to say, after reading the detailed quest information on WoWWiki that I am deeply disappointed with what they are doing with Varian in WotLK. He's always seemed like a level-headed person in the comic, and he's going completely berserker now. Nowhere in the comic he shows so much hatred or disgust for the Horde as he is exhibiting now.

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Old 09/19/08, 1:27 PM   #421
Emeraude
Bald Bull
 
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Sargeras
Originally Posted by Leguaran View Post
So far, I have to say, after reading the detailed quest information on WoWWiki that I am deeply disappointed with what they are doing with Varian in WotLK. He's always seemed like a level-headed person in the comic, and he's going completely berserker now. Nowhere in the comic he shows so much hatred or disgust for the Horde as he is exhibiting now.
He's not without reason. He was able to stay in Orgrimmar for months, with the Trolls, Forsaken, Tauren, Orcs. He has a unique perspective of what they actually are from within. While it's true that the Horde aren't made up entirely of monsters, they do have notable villains within their ranks, especially within the Forsaken.

The Forsaken are a part of the Horde, Thrall allowed them to join the Horde, and as the Warchief, he is responsible for their actions. They made a Plague which was designed to wipe out both the Alliance AND the Scourge. He says it himself in the flavor quest text, "For too long have the Horde been left unchecked. We allowed their territories to prosper and in return for our generosity they plotted and planned our demise." While the actions at the Wrath Gate may not have been the direct result of Forsaken, or the Horde, they are responsible for it because they allowed it to take place with their own weapon. Their actions are really not something you can turn a blind eye to.

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Old 09/19/08, 1:36 PM   #422
Tacitus
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Wildhammer (EU)
The horde version of the retaking of the Undercity is quite awesome. You have Thrall tanking every mob inside with his aura while Sylvanas hangs around singing. The song in question is the Lament of the Highborne, the same one you hear when you return her pendant from the Ghostlands.

I'll do a proper writeup when the server comes back up (restarted just as the event got started).

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Old 09/19/08, 1:41 PM   #423
Mooncrow
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Uldaman
Originally Posted by Emeraude View Post
I don't know about the rest of you, but now I'm kinda hoping Arthas does break free. Can you imagine having both Varian and Arthas as Alliance leaders? That would be downright amazing, 2 ridiculously angry/passionate Humans leading our forces in a War against the Horde. :0
That would be epic beyond imagining. I imagine after fighting the Scourge in Northrend for a while and with Bolvar's death, Arthas would pick up a reasonable following:

Arthas: "See, this is what I was trying to stop, and drastic measures were the only way."
People: "Hmm, maybe that wasn't such a bad idea. Lead on, oh King."

I have to say, before these last two quest chains (Wrath Gate and the Lehner chains) I would have been against it, but the Lehner chain is probably one of the coolest things I've done in any game, and it sets the stage for Arthas' redemption, in some way, quite well.

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Old 09/19/08, 2:09 PM   #424
basto
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Skywall
Originally Posted by Mooncrow View Post
That would be epic beyond imagining. I imagine after fighting the Scourge in Northrend for a while and with Bolvar's death, Arthas would pick up a reasonable following:

Arthas: "See, this is what I was trying to stop, and drastic measures were the only way."
People: "Hmm, maybe that wasn't such a bad idea. Lead on, oh King."

I have to say, before these last two quest chains (Wrath Gate and the Lehner chains) I would have been against it, but the Lehner chain is probably one of the coolest things I've done in any game, and it sets the stage for Arthas' redemption, in some way, quite well.
Arthas has too much blood on his hands for the alliance to accept any redemption other than his death.

If Darth Vader had survived the the battle of endor the rebellion would not have welcomed him with open arms because he had reformed. He would have been tried for crimes against humanity and executed.

I think Arthas may yet see redemption but I do not think he will survive it.

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Old 09/19/08, 4:43 PM   #425
Emeraude
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Originally Posted by basto View Post
Arthas has too much blood on his hands for the alliance to accept any redemption other than his death.

If Darth Vader had survived the the battle of endor the rebellion would not have welcomed him with open arms because he had reformed. He would have been tried for crimes against humanity and executed.

I think Arthas may yet see redemption but I do not think he will survive it.
Ok yes, maybe we're going a bit overboard with it. On that same token why does Redemption = immediate death after one good act? I think a character who committed atrocities, and then was given their consciousness back and had to LIVE with what they've done would be far more interesting then somebody who's been evil for 10 years, does something good, and then dies immediately after "Redeemed". It's just my opinion but some of these villains have so much more to atone for, it would be more interesting to keep them around. The Death Knights of Acherus aren't the only ones who have been manipulated all this time after all, Ner'zhul->Arthas.

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