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Old 03/12/09, 12:05 PM   #2686
Rhaegal
Don Flamenco
 
Pandaren Monk
 
Zul'Jin
Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
It is not inconceivable to me that what we'll get is "fragment of the shattered Frostmorne", or "fragment of the shattered Ashbringer", as something we can equip in our trinket slots.

Possibly even both from the same encounter...
This seems a little more reasonable to me than actually handing out Frostmourne and/or Ashbringer. The problem with both of those as player-wielded weapons is that they're both extremely central parts of major lore. There's a lot more sense in the game of THE Frostmourne and THE Ashbringer, much moreso than there ever was for THE Warglaives of Azzinoth, which were just a couple weapons that Illidan picked up from some random doomguard thousands of years before the events of any Warcraft game. It would be difficult to justify a bunch of people running around on a server carrying the actual Frostmourne or the actual Ashbringer, unless they were rewards only available as part of the server first kill, similar to the Scarab Lord title and mount. As cool as that would be, I just don't see it happening when the reward is an actual powerful item usable in combat.

The original Corrupted Ashbringer in Naxx 1.0 is a little problematic in this regard, though. My only argument about that would be that it wasn't nearly as significant a part of active lore then, whereas the cleansed version is now, after the story buildup from BC in Old Hillsbrad and the events at Light's Hope. Admittedly a weak argument, though.

Stand back! I'm going to try SCIENCE!

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Old 03/12/09, 12:21 PM   #2687
Exemplar
Bald Bull
 
Human Paladin
 
Scarlet Crusade
We've gone from bindings for Thunderfury, to staff fragments for Atiesh, to complete weapons (glaives and bow) off Illidan and KJ. Now we're back to fragments for Ulduar mace. I see a trend to assemble items so they're less RNG prone.

Gather something from Icecrown hard mode bosses. Combine these with the [Hilt of Frostmourne] (only lootable from Hard Mode Arthas if you have X shards) for the 1H artifact weapon. Or combine them with [Fractured Blade of Ashbringer] (only lootable from Hard Mode Arthas if you have Y shards) for the 2H artifact weapon.

Hell, once you have both, you have to go to David Wayne in Terrokar and do the hokey-pokey.

I just don't see a straight up RNG drop (at least I hope not) and something tweaked around Hard Modes. They also have the perfect opportunity to please 1H and 2H simultaneously. Guilds would have to decide which to make along with who gets it. Or Blizz can cop out and require different Hard Mode drops and both are being worked on simultaneously.

Edit: Forgot to point out you can clarify it's not Frostmourne or Ashbringer, but something crafted using only part of either. [The Reforged Ashbringer] or [Argentfrost].

Last edited by Exemplar : 03/12/09 at 12:29 PM.

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Old 03/12/09, 12:22 PM   #2688
4LV
Don Flamenco
 
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Tauren Warrior
 
Haomarush (EU)
To be completely honest Rhaegal, I think when it comes to those two weapons, it might actually be beneficial for the game as a whole to just say "screw lore/precedent" and just let them drop for players to use.

Edit; By stating "just let them drop" I did not mean to summon the RNG-spirits. I completely agree with Exemplar.

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Old 03/12/09, 1:35 PM   #2689
Valinnor
Von Kaiser
 
Blood Elf Hunter
 
Mal'Ganis
Originally Posted by 4LV View Post
To be completely honest Rhaegal, I think when it comes to those two weapons, it might actually be beneficial for the game as a whole to just say "screw lore/precedent" and just let them drop for players to use.

Edit; By stating "just let them drop" I did not mean to summon the RNG-spirits. I completely agree with Exemplar.

I'm personally of the mind that Frostmourn is part of Ner'zuhl. Kil'Jaeden empowered the armor and sword with the dispersed essence/soul whatever of the former orc. I really do not think that the sword should be lootable by characters but rather should be an artifact or quest item of some kind that would lead to a conclusion of the lore surrounding the sword and Ner'zuhl. On the other hand Blizzard has not shown a pattern of dogmatic behavior when it comes to items that really should be more important than they ended up. The Skull of Guldan was almost as important as Frostmourn lore-wise and we all know how that turned out.
So while I strongly believe that Blizz should embrace the lore of the sword and really make it into something cooler than a drop or even a legendary weapon, I do not think they will take this route.

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Old 03/12/09, 7:24 PM   #2690
Blayze
Piston Honda
 
Human Warrior
 
Hellscream (EU)
Personally, I'd love it if Arthas dropped a very specific grey item upon his death -- a sword with sod all stats. [Lifeless Frostmourne], for instance. It could even have some flavour text.

"Nice job breaking it, hero!"

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Old 03/12/09, 9:17 PM   #2691
Jagiya
Don Flamenco
 
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Gnome Rogue
 
Blackrock
Ulduar Achievement:
In His House He Waits Dreaming: Experience all 5 visions of Yogg-Saron's mind on Normal Difficulty.

Five? Until now we've only been aware of three. (Assassination of King Llane, Creation of the Dragon Soul, Corruption of... Arthas... or something)

Are they intentionally hiding the other two from us?

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Old 03/12/09, 10:16 PM   #2692
Faldrath
Piston Honda
 
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Human Warlock
 
Steamwheedle Cartel
Originally Posted by Jagiya View Post
Ulduar Achievement:
In His House He Waits Dreaming: Experience all 5 visions of Yogg-Saron's mind on Normal Difficulty.

Five? Until now we've only been aware of three. (Assassination of King Llane, Creation of the Dragon Soul, Corruption of... Arthas... or something)

Are they intentionally hiding the other two from us?
Can't really trust the figures from the Ulduar achievements just yet. They seem to be mostly placeholders (like, there's an achievement to kill a boss in 20 seconds or something, or to kill 3 bosses within 2 seconds of each other, stuff like that).

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Old 03/12/09, 10:36 PM   #2693
Jagiya
Don Flamenco
 
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Gnome Rogue
 
Blackrock
I originally wrote those exact words in my post, but then I thought to myself, "this doesn't really fit that logic." The fight has already been designed, it's not a matter of tuning. They've already recorded and distributed voices for three visions, so it would make sense that they'd at least write "3" rather than "5", even if the encounter was yet to be completed. Doesn't quite sit right. Perhaps the other two visions don't have any voices whatsoever, and as such we were lead to believe there are only 3? Hmm.

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Old 03/12/09, 10:48 PM   #2694
Leviathon
Great Tiger
 
Worgen Druid
 
Blade's Edge
Originally Posted by Jagiya View Post
I originally wrote those exact words in my post, but then I thought to myself, "this doesn't really fit that logic." The fight has already been designed, it's not a matter of tuning. They've already recorded and distributed voices for three visions, so it would make sense that they'd at least write "3" rather than "5", even if the encounter was yet to be completed. Doesn't quite sit right. Perhaps the other two visions don't have any voices whatsoever, and as such we were lead to believe there are only 3? Hmm.
They probably just put random numbers in like they did for everything else so I wouldn't look to into it.

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Old 03/12/09, 11:25 PM   #2695
Liebestod
King Hippo
 
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Night Elf Druid
 
Elune
Yeah, I'd guess random numbers as well. Not only are there only 3 visions in the voice files, but there are only 3 rooms in the files that correspond to those visions.

Cute that Yogg-Saron's female avatar is called Sara, though.

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Old 03/12/09, 11:54 PM   #2696
Jagiya
Don Flamenco
 
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Gnome Rogue
 
Blackrock
Ooh! On the topic of Crystalsong Forest and how The Scourge can't step foot in that area (for whatever reason - i forget)...

In 3.1, The Black Knight quest chain (Argent Tournament) has placed some Undead (and Demons) in Crystalsong Forest, chopping down the trees.


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Old 03/13/09, 12:19 AM   #2697
Kaejin
Great Tiger
 
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Troll Death Knight
 
Mal'Ganis
I found that odd as well, on top of the fact that it's a VERY long way to travel for lumber when Storm Peaks is just East along with the trees that grow there.

Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.

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Old 03/13/09, 6:31 AM   #2698
Ufthak
Von Kaiser
 
Orc Hunter
 
Dragonblight (EU)
Originally Posted by Jagiya View Post
Ooh! On the topic of Crystalsong Forest and how The Scourge can't step foot in that area (for whatever reason - i forget)...

In 3.1, The Black Knight quest chain (Argent Tournament) has placed some Undead (and Demons) in Crystalsong Forest, chopping down the trees.
Aren't there Highborn ghosts there already. Not all undead are scourge. If the prohibition is against Scourge perhaps it interfers with the way the Lich King controls the Scourge and any that enter are broken off and are just mindless.

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Old 03/13/09, 7:57 AM   #2699
TSplodey
Von Kaiser
 
Undead Priest
 
Dreadmaul
After reading the WoWwiki page on Crystalsong it appears that the forest has a conciousness of some sort, and only defends itself against ill-willed beings. The forest defended itself against the forces of Arthas, but the article makes no mention it being a specifically anti-undead thing.

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Old 03/13/09, 8:39 AM   #2700
Blayze
Piston Honda
 
Human Warrior
 
Hellscream (EU)
Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
They probably just put random numbers in like they did for everything else so I wouldn't look to into it.
A friend of mine mentioned Achievements to kill a thousand adds -- and even a *boss* -- in two seconds.

It's safe to say those numbers are just random.

At the very least, I *hope* 22 minutes isn't considered *fast* for Yogg-Saron. I have no desire to tempt even more DCs -- DCs that only ever seem to occur during boss fights -- than my raids need to.

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