I see a lot of people assuming that Garrosh is into duplicity and talking about him as the most likely candidate for subterfuge in the Horde. I don't really understand where this is coming from.
Certainly he is at odds with Thrall and thinks he can do a better job, but at no point in time have we been lead to believe that Garrosh is outright treacherous. Not only that, but the guy is a meathead. To believe that he could plot the downfall of Thrall through cunning seems to be stretching it, and I highly doubt that Blizzard wants us to hate him even more than we do. It's unreasonable to make the new leader of our faction and unreasonable warmonger AND an untrustworthy conspirator against one of Warcraft's most popular characters.
Incorrect. The interview states: "Camp Taurajo is burned down and attacked by the Alliance". Just like Astraanar seemed to be, from the screenshots we got.
That suggests the quests revolving around Camp Taurajo are probably dealing with pushing back the alliance and defending. Even with the restructuring of the Barrens, I sincerely doubt the Alliance would have a quest hub there instead of the horde, like other people seem to be suggesting.
Originally Posted by Illyra
I reckon it's part of the greater plan to create active conflict zones around the world.
That's probably the case. I think it's designed to "reinject the war", and we can expect more questlines focused on fighting against the other faction, on both sides, rather than the mostly "fight against nature/third parties" we have. They suggested a lot more lore in the quests, and that's probably a part of their initiative in that direction.
It'd be nice to take advantage of this kind of technology for zones like Desolace which would otherwise go from Barren to lush overnight. I guess the real question is, who would see it? I can't imagine they'd actually go to that much effort when people will be busy killing Arthas and stuff.
Druid in Dal with quest to take seeds to another Druid in Desolace - oh look, some stuff's already planted.
Warrior in Dal with quest to take vital supplies to the "front line" in Barrens - oh look, Camp T is under assault.
They can cookie-crumb quests from Northrend into old zones to get people to eyeball it. Most folks will take a quick quest for 10-20G to run through a portal and take a flight plan.
Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
Hadn't seen that "by the Alliance" part, only the fact that there's now an Alliance base there. Shame on me, it seems. Still, I'm more into the main reason for the burnt of Taurajo being a balance one. Too many factors would advise agains it or otherwise downright prevent it. It's an incursion on the Horde's private sterile savannah, for God's sakes.
In regard to the "Traitor Garrosh" thing. Though I personnaly don't see him as a being stupider than the axes he wields, I don't think he's tied to Thrall's kidnapping either. The thing is, with Blizzard's lore, saying "why not" isn't that absurd. Let me speculate: the existing story is full of heroes who went to far for a "good" intention or their vision + there are two main Hordes (Thrall's "Let's care of ourselves without being naive" Horde and Garrosh's "Back to conquest and slaughter, you lot" Horde) + in the far extreme of the latter Horde, you have an infiltrated cult. One could argue Garrosh could make a deal with the Burning Blade to take the upper hand, all the while trying to control it - just like Thrall's advisor did in "The Cicle of Hate" novel.
It's not my personal position, but if the Night Elves are accepting help from the Highborne, who's to say warlocks won't be playing a bigger role in the Horde?
I have a very hard time accepting Malfurion as a neutral NPC in Hyjal. I know neutral/alliance couples do have precedent (Rhonin, Vereesa) and I can see him putting aside from the whole "Garrosh's dad killed Cenarius" thing (though I guess he did put that aside in the end of WC3). I just can't see him accepting the clear-cutting of Ashenvale with a shrug though. Having said that, I guess the danger to Hyjal could be large enough for him to accept help from anybody.
On another note, if Auberdine is being flooded, (meaning some sort of storm hit the western coast of Kalimdor) does that mean we can expect that Feathermoon will be wiped out as well?
Not to mention it's somewhat rocks for brains. Attacking a bunch of werewolves who were reknowned for their strength *before* turning into flesh-rending hulks sounds like a fantastic idea.
Although, with Sylvanas taking orders, I suppose we can rule her out of being the new Lich Queen.
Well, I guess this leads us to a "CG intro" factor of race superiority. It's true Worgen are very strong, not least of all because of their "wild abandon" and feral nature. It's also true that no one in the world knew that the top hat-wearing, pocket watch-carrying, snob bunch having tea in the manor could turn into weapon-wielding pitbulls.
Still, worgen aren't necessarily superior in combat to Forsaken, even as far as strength is concerned. If you read the short story of how Kel'thuzad got to serve Ner'zhul, there's a part where an imprisoned woman turns undead and throws her husband agains the cage to the point of near unconsciousness with basically single blow out of instinct.
It seems to me that the only on-the-spot basic (as in not changeable by rational factors) disadvantage the Forsaken face in their invasion of Gilneas is the fact that they don't know of the Worgen factor. Plus the fact that the Gilnean are defending their homes.
I have a very hard time accepting Malfurion as a neutral NPC in Hyjal. I know neutral/alliance couples do have precedent (Rhonin, Vereesa) and I can see him putting aside from the whole "Garrosh's dad killed Cenarius" thing (though I guess he did put that aside in the end of WC3). I just can't see him accepting the clear-cutting of Ashenvale with a shrug though. Having said that, I guess the danger to Hyjal could be large enough for him to accept help from anybody.
On another note, if Auberdine is being flooded, (meaning some sort of storm hit the western coast of Kalimdor) does that mean we can expect that Feathermoon will be wiped out as well?
Since there is no neutral base on the Hyjal map then it is very likely he may mostly be Alliance friendly.
What's the very blurry spot in the center of the map? Looks like "[something something] POI", but I can't really make out the first two words. The first one might be "Tower", but that's just a guess.
Was the clearer typing done by you, Leviathon? Perhaps the person who originally uploaded it to wherever it was leaked / shown? Or was that officially the way it was released, and maybe that blurry spot is a point of lore/Spoiler stuff, and that's why it's blurry?
I for one am assuming there are going to be some bad things ahead for the horde in terms of lore such as Thrall leaving etc., because at Blizz Con Chris Metzen said "theres gonna be some dark times ahead for the horde." He said this during the panel after the opening ceremony, discussing how the goblins would be a type of comic relief for them.
Since Metzen pretty much tells the story of WoW how he sees fit I'm going to take this as the horde are about to take a few hits.
Was the clearer typing done by you, Leviathon? Perhaps the person who originally uploaded it to wherever it was leaked / shown? Or was that officially the way it was released, and maybe that blurry spot is a point of lore/Spoiler stuff, and that's why it's blurry?
I took the images that were taken at Blizzcon and cleared them up similar to what Shandris on WoWWiki and I did with the concept maps for WotLK. Blurry areas were points that I could not make out 100% so I just left them like that rather than putting in the 1 or 2 words I did make out.
Here were the others I did. The Sunken City of Vashj'ir was way to blurry for me to make out much but the name of the PC race that lives there is all over that map in the green boxes.
There are still no official sources stating that Garrosh would become Warchief, or even that Thrall hands over that title to someone else, he will also not become the new Guardian, if anyone, that will be Med'an. This was part of the SomethingAwful variant of an actual leak, "flavored" with lots of fan-made details.
Med'an is going to be the new Aspect of Magic. I would have thought that was fairly obvious by now.
Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg
Well, I guess this leads us to a "CG intro" factor of race superiority. It's true Worgen are very strong, not least of all because of their "wild abandon" and feral nature. It's also true that no one in the world knew that the top hat-wearing, pocket watch-carrying, snob bunch having tea in the manor could turn into weapon-wielding pitbulls.
Still, worgen aren't necessarily superior in combat to Forsaken, even as far as strength is concerned. If you read the short story of how Kel'thuzad got to serve Ner'zhul, there's a part where an imprisoned woman turns undead and throws her husband agains the cage to the point of near unconsciousness with basically single blow out of instinct.
It seems to me that the only on-the-spot basic (as in not changeable by rational factors) disadvantage the Forsaken face in their invasion of Gilneas is the fact that they don't know of the Worgen factor. Plus the fact that the Gilnean are defending their homes.
Plus, you know, it's not like the Forsaken suddenly forgot how to make Blight.
Why does it have to be the result of Garrosh taking liberties, or becoming the Warchief? Can't it be something as simple as 'Let's reinforce the walls better against assault'?
During the panel about all this, Blizzard went out of their way to say things like "Recognize that black metal? Who likes that sort of thing?" (in reference to the shot of the entrance to Orgrimmar) and then also when they showed the picture of the Zoram Strand they specifically mentioned Garrosh by name, saying he was expanding and fortifying the Horde's holdings.
Based on those comments there's basically no doubt that Garrosh is involved with the Horde's expansion; what we don't know for sure is what his specific role is - warchief, just a high up general type, etc.
Med'an is going to be the new Aspect of Magic. I would have thought that was fairly obvious by now.
And where did you get this irrefutable, conclusive information? If I recall correctly, didn't Metzen note that Malygos wasn't about to be replaced by someone/something that wasn't a dragon?
If anything, Med'an is being built to be the next major leader / protagonist of the overarching Warcraft story arc. He's more or less the next Medivh / Thrall / Mal'furion, a character who everyone will be able to rally behind to finish off a massively great evil. He's more than likely not going to be an Aspect, or for that matter, even a Guardian, though being the next Guardian, or an eventual one, seems to be the most likely case.
I suspect that Thrall might just be a part of the Council, and not an actual Guardian, but it's pretty safe to assume that Garrosh is about to get a much larger control over the Horde.
I specifically recall (Metzen's) words along the lines of, "Things are gonna be a little different now that Garrosh is running the show..." during the series of screenshots demonstrating Horde fortifications all over Kalimdor. He wasn't vague about it at all, it can only really be interpreted one way.
As for the blurry part of the Hyjal map, I just thought I'd add that the "POI" stands for "Place/Point of Interest."
I imagine it'll give us a nice overview of the entire zone.
I am curious, and it may be a dumb question, but given the comments about the next Aspect of Magic and who it will be i wonder; Doesn't Norgannon need to return to Azeroth to appoint that? Is there some other way for someone to become the aspect?
I realise there is scope in the Ulduar/Algalon storyline for a return of at least some of the titans. I just wonder if that kind of event can possibly happen in the short term - given the long term narrative the titan story has so far had - or whether the identity of the new aspect is something which may be a long way off?
I am curious, and it may be a dumb question, but given the comments about the next Aspect of Magic and who it will be i wonder; Doesn't Norgannon need to return to Azeroth to appoint that? Is there some other way for someone to become the aspect?
I realise there is scope in the Ulduar/Algalon storyline for a return of at least some of the titans. I just wonder if that kind of event can possibly happen in the short term - given the long term narrative the titan story has so far had - or whether the identity of the new aspect is something which may be a long way off?
The 'Heart' recovered from Malygos is what they will use to empower the next Aspect. I'd imagine that is the case for all of the Aspects also.
I mean Blizzard is painfully obvious at hinting to Thrall's removal from his current position. Yes it's only hints, but so far we know that Thrall is being captured and subsequently rescued by Goblins to make their faction entrance. Afterwards, who knows. Boubouille mentioned somewhere that the Thrall/Garrosh thing won't be right from the start, so this might be a ongoing lore theme unfolding during 4.x version cycle. But there are lots of hints that something is going to happen there. I for one rather believe that this is going to happen, as all the other bits that were leaked from mmo-c were right, so why not this also?
What I envision right now is that simply Garrosh vs. Varian is going to be the petty faction conflict line and Thrall/Jaina/others (Rhonin, Khadgar, others?) are going to deal with the real dangers. So in a way, not that much difference.
I for one am assuming there are going to be some bad things ahead for the horde in terms of lore such as Thrall leaving etc., because at Blizz Con Chris Metzen said "theres gonna be some dark times ahead for the horde." He said this during the panel after the opening ceremony, discussing how the goblins would be a type of comic relief for them.
Since Metzen pretty much tells the story of WoW how he sees fit I'm going to take this as the horde are about to take a few hits.
Regarding the dark days, he just mentioned "there are, in this expansion, some dark days ahead." He didn't specifically mention the Horde in that. The only Horde-centric comment he made was when he introduced the Goblins when he said "the Horde may need some comic relief coming up soon, and goblins fit perfectly." Personally, his mention of the Horde needing some comic relief just led me to believe the part about Cairne dying was true.
Regarding the dark days, he just mentioned "there are, in this expansion, some dark days ahead." He didn't specifically mention the Horde in that. The only Horde-centric comment he made was when he introduced the Goblins when he said "the Horde may need some comic relief coming up soon, and goblins fit perfectly." Personally, his mention of the Horde needing some comic relief just led me to believe the part about Cairne dying was true.
While I love that big old cow and blame Blizzard for not giving him even a slight role in transpiring events - plus hideous gear - I'm all for Cairne dying. Preferably in a blaze of glory, such as squishing half of Garrosh's elite guard before finally getting overpowered.
Back to Thrall-Garrosh: with Med'han perfectly incarnating (even now) the Aspect of Magic - Malygos is even hinted not to have had any kind of influence over non-arcane magic - that leaves us to know if Thrall will indeed "lose" his post as Warchief by joining the Council of Tirisfal and maybe even becoming the new Guardian. That's my opinion. In the screen published here, he was wearing quite the castery gear, kilt and all. Clearly, those aren't prisoner clothes the SI:7 made him put on (I still find it hard to believe they can force him to do anything). So he does seem to be joining the Council - an insurrection would be hard to believe, he's got a lot of influence over old warlords and overlords like Saurfang, trying a coup would probably end with the orcs' decimation rather than Thrall's demotion - which might mean Rehgar dies. As to his promotion to Guardian: pardon my orc fandom, but if you can think of someone more messiah-like, unifying and all-around powerful, I'm all for hearing about that being. Hell, I'll vote for him.
but if you can think of someone more messiah-like, unifying and all-around powerful, I'm all for hearing about that being. Hell, I'll vote for him.
Turalyon. I just finished reading both Tides of Darkness and Beyond the Dark Portal, and as far as I understand it he's meant to be some kind of super-Paladin. Jarod might also count for pure unifying ability as well, in a pinch.
Turalyon. I just finished reading both Tides of Darkness and Beyond the Dark Portal, and as far as I understand it he's meant to be some kind of super-Paladin. Jarod might also count for pure unifying ability as well, in a pinch.
I was about to say Thrall was more of a magic-user than Turalyon but they're both renowned hand-to-hand magic-powered fighters, so I won't travel down that road. Jarod uses no magic, to my memory, so he's really not an option of Guardian-status, in spite of his qualities.
Still, you don't see many (any, really, game or lorewise) pure magic-wielding offensive paladins. To be honest, and if it wasn't for Marrad being the crafty wise sacred behemoth he is - and Med'han's uncle - I'd say a paladin made no real sense in a magic council. There are priests for that, really.
Turalyon. I just finished reading both Tides of Darkness and Beyond the Dark Portal, and as far as I understand it he's meant to be some kind of super-Paladin. Jarod might also count for pure unifying ability as well, in a pinch.
I'm thinking that they are holding Turalyon and the other windrunner sister in their back pocket for a future content patch / expansion, dealing in some part with the outlands. In fact given that deathwing had spent time in outlands it would not suprise me that a 4.1 or 4.2 patch would take us back to a changed and updated outlands.
08/31/09, 10:28 AM
