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09/09/09, 6:02 AM
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#5201
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Great Tiger
Night Elf Hunter
Moonglade (EU)
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Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg
Since we're speaking of A'dal, this reminds me of the "Heal the poor fellow" quest in Icecrown, which A'dal solves by taking the poor paladin to heaven. Will we end up understanding how the hell does the Scourge plague resist to every attempt from some of the most powerful forces in the universe? I'm assuming at least Alextrasza and A'dal are more powerful than the Lich King, so I'd actually like to see the basis for the Plague's resilience. It might be purely chemical or some hidden spell in its conception, but I believe that, if well thought, it might also open doors for future storylines.
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It might have something to do with its original Burning Legion masterminds. They intended it this way, because if any of the powerful forces on Azeroth could have presented a cure for it, then it wouldn't have seriously been a threat, and it wouldn't impose tough moral choices on people ( *cough* Arthas) Thus, there really wouldn't have been any of the events such as Stratholme, and everything else that lead up from that point....
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Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
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Originally Posted by Kaubel
You people are idiots
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Guilty as charged ^
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09/09/09, 7:16 AM
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#5202
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King Hippo
Orc Warrior
Burning Steppes (EU)
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My thoughts exactly.
(Second Lich King/Lord, anyone?)
A reutilizing of the plague by the Legion as the starting point for a "Legion homeworld" expansion, maybe...
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09/09/09, 9:55 AM
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#5203
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Von Kaiser
Night Elf Hunter
Aerie Peak
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Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg
Also, they are the source of power for all the Light-users, the reactors, so to speak, and if a Naaru's core was able to reactivate the Sunwell (the friggin' Sunwell!), you can imagine how powerful the greatest of them, A'dal, can be.
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I'm still waiting for blizzard to firmly back up the "ashbringer crystal is a naaru's heart" speculation (which to be fair, there is a lot of evidence for.) Icecrown is a good place for them to do that, and it gives them a chance to involve the naaru more.
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09/09/09, 10:00 AM
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#5204
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Don Flamenco
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I believe it has been mentioned in one of the books that a spell exists somewhere in Northrend (Coldarra to be exact) to "cure" the scourge.
Coldarra - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft
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An ancient scroll, found in a Northrend ruin, mentioned a spell that can remove undeath from a huge number of creatures at the same time, laying the undead creatures permanently to rest.
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The problem is that we have not seen anything from Blizzard in that regards, and the Blue Dragon storyline dropped dead as quickly as it began. At this point I have no reason to believe that Blizzard will indulge us in the basis of the Scoruge plague and how it works. Icecrown will mainly be about Horde vs Alliance vs Lich King.
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09/09/09, 10:16 AM
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#5205
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King Hippo
Orc Warrior
Burning Steppes (EU)
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Hmm, the spell of undeath removal, had forgotten about that. It probably raised too many questions if it was brought up. Like "why hasn't Malygos used that spell? Even if it was the ultimate in magic, Malygos would be able to use it" or "why hasn't Arthas mobilized to get or destroy the scroll"? Either that or it will play a part in the destruction of the Lich King.
On Icecrown, why again must Horde and Alliance race through the most dangerous place on Azeroth? The hell is wrong with Varian and, for that matter, Saurfang? Yogg Saron is one thing, an obscure myth, almos no one has heard about an Old God, much less see one...but the Lich King? Azeroth's biggest villain currently in activity (well, C'thun being alive by the comics lore might change that, but meh)? Maybe beating back the Lich King has indeed be too easy, as as been said. Of course, us heroes can only move forward, but perhaps a little phasing would be in order when 3.3 comes. Littering the entrance to Icecrown with Alliance and Horde corpses, a cemitery...Because seeing Azeroth's two major factions race inside The Bad Guy's castle is insanely stupid. Worst of all, that might just be intended...I smell another Saurfang going to orcish heaven.
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09/09/09, 10:46 AM
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#5206
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Bald Bull
Human Paladin
Scarlet Crusade
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Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg
On Icecrown, why again must Horde and Alliance race through the most dangerous place on Azeroth? The hell is wrong with Varian and, for that matter, Saurfang? Yogg Saron is one thing, an obscure myth, almos no one has heard about an Old God, much less see one...but the Lich King? Azeroth's biggest villain currently in activity (well, C'thun being alive by the comics lore might change that, but meh)? Maybe beating back the Lich King has indeed be too easy, as as been said. Of course, us heroes can only move forward, but perhaps a little phasing would be in order when 3.3 comes. Littering the entrance to Icecrown with Alliance and Horde corpses, a cemitery...Because seeing Azeroth's two major factions race inside The Bad Guy's castle is insanely stupid. Worst of all, that might just be intended...I smell another Saurfang going to orcish heaven.
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It's more example of (an attempt) for good story over realism. "Gee, it will be more fun if they fight each other on the way to Arthas!"
Tactically and strategically, yes, it's the height of stupidity. If you want to crush the other faction, fine. Let them head into Icecrown alone first. Defenses pick them off and weaken them. Best case, they defeat the Lich King, you go in and kill their survivors. Worst case they all die, then you die second because you didn't cooperate. Middle of the road they weaken the Lich King, dying in the attempt, your fresh troops come in and stomp his face.
Worst case is why enemies will often work together against a greater threat. The chance that everyone loses should be unacceptable to leadership and lead to forced cooperation. Even a trooper in the field would go "Bwah?" if you tell them to prioritize kill the Horde/Alliance above killing Scourge. Especially after the Tourney selected all these uber champions to go in specifically for Scourge-ass-kicking.
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Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
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09/09/09, 10:51 AM
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#5207
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Don Flamenco
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Well, it seems like Blizzard really wants to, as they say, "Put War back in Warcraft" and this was the best way they could find going about it.
It doesn't make sense to me though because, for most of the WoTLK we were told that unless the Lich King will win if the Horde and Alliance keep fighting amongst themselves and that is exactly what we have been doing. Unless we some consequences of that in Icecrown, it would be vary dissapointing.
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09/09/09, 11:45 AM
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#5208
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Druid
Earthen Ring
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Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg
Since we're speaking of A'dal, this reminds me of the "Heal the poor fellow" quest in Icecrown, which A'dal solves by taking the poor paladin to heaven. Will we end up understanding how the hell does the Scourge plague resist to every attempt from some of the most powerful forces in the universe? I'm assuming at least Alextrasza and A'dal are more powerful than the Lich King, so I'd actually like to see the basis for the Plague's resilience. It might be purely chemical or some hidden spell in its conception, but I believe that, if well thought, it might also open doors for future storylines.
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The logical explanation from my point of view is that it somehow taps into the Curse of Flesh, accelerating or manipulating the fundamental old god corruption that so many races are tainted with.
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09/09/09, 11:46 AM
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#5209
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Bald Bull
Night Elf Warrior
Sargeras
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Another thing I noticed in the new Warcraft Legends manga, one of the girls being raised by the High Elf mentioned that High Elves are no longer able to practice magic anymore, at all, she receives tutoring from a Human mage that passes through the Quel'Danil Lodge on occasion, and was reluctant to mention how her training was going in fear that she would cause pain to her foster mother.
Obviously there are exceptions to this, like the High Elves in Dalaran, but it was interesting to hear that.
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09/09/09, 1:11 PM
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#5210
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Great Tiger
Troll Death Knight
Mal'Ganis
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I suppose it's possible that that either has something to do with High Elves no longer having access to the Light Well, or that the Light Well is now a font of holy energy rather than arcane.
As far as the Naaru go, I still think they're eerie as hell. Everything in the game urges you to trust them and the fact that they're supposed to best bet against the Burning Legion, but I can't bring myself to trust them. Crusader Bridenbrad's quest line only reinforced how I felt. His ascent into heaven (assumedly) via the Naaru was one of the most unsettling things I've seen in WoW.
As far as why they don't fight on the battlefield, it's hard to say. They do act as beacons of hope and encouragement, though. Sort of like an team mascot, but without the stupid animal costume. The one on the Isle of Quel'danas gives an amazing buff too. It's not like they do nothing, they just don't bash in heads like you would expect a being of significant power to do.
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Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.
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09/09/09, 1:17 PM
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#5211
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some random guy
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Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg
Hmm, the spell of undeath removal, had forgotten about that. It probably raised too many questions if it was brought up. Like "why hasn't Malygos used that spell? Even if it was the ultimate in magic, Malygos would be able to use it" or "why hasn't Arthas mobilized to get or destroy the scroll"? Either that or it will play a part in the destruction of the Lich King.
On Icecrown, why again must Horde and Alliance race through the most dangerous place on Azeroth? The hell is wrong with Varian and, for that matter, Saurfang? Yogg Saron is one thing, an obscure myth, almos no one has heard about an Old God, much less see one...but the Lich King? Azeroth's biggest villain currently in activity (well, C'thun being alive by the comics lore might change that, but meh)? Maybe beating back the Lich King has indeed be too easy, as as been said. Of course, us heroes can only move forward, but perhaps a little phasing would be in order when 3.3 comes. Littering the entrance to Icecrown with Alliance and Horde corpses, a cemitery...Because seeing Azeroth's two major factions race inside The Bad Guy's castle is insanely stupid. Worst of all, that might just be intended...I smell another Saurfang going to orcish heaven.
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The only plot set up that makes sense to me is that that Bolvar / Saurfang jr fight is immediately before this in the instance. You defeat the opposite sides member last just as the other faction walks through the door. Saurfang / Wrynn becomes overcome with rage seeing their loved one hacked to bits and orders the attack...at which point you retreat to the airships and the race is on.
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Originally Posted by Falk
Seems like advocating Darwinism would be the best solution.
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Originally Posted by Darkside
The achievement would be much easier if it wasn't as hard.
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09/09/09, 1:37 PM
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#5212
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Great Tiger
Worgen Druid
Blade's Edge
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Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg
Hmm, the spell of undeath removal, had forgotten about that. It probably raised too many questions if it was brought up. Like "why hasn't Malygos used that spell? Even if it was the ultimate in magic, Malygos would be able to use it" or "why hasn't Arthas mobilized to get or destroy the scroll"? Either that or it will play a part in the destruction of the Lich King.
On Icecrown, why again must Horde and Alliance race through the most dangerous place on Azeroth? The hell is wrong with Varian and, for that matter, Saurfang? Yogg Saron is one thing, an obscure myth, almos no one has heard about an Old God, much less see one...but the Lich King? Azeroth's biggest villain currently in activity (well, C'thun being alive by the comics lore might change that, but meh)? Maybe beating back the Lich King has indeed be too easy, as as been said. Of course, us heroes can only move forward, but perhaps a little phasing would be in order when 3.3 comes. Littering the entrance to Icecrown with Alliance and Horde corpses, a cemitery...Because seeing Azeroth's two major factions race inside The Bad Guy's castle is insanely stupid. Worst of all, that might just be intended...I smell another Saurfang going to orcish heaven.
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Blizzard just wants to continue bringing the 'war' back into Warcraft in a very nonsensical way.
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09/09/09, 2:50 PM
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#5213
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Glass Joe
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Originally Posted by Leviathon
Blizzard just wants to continue bringing the 'war' back into Warcraft in a very nonsensical way.
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Exactly. Their story writers are probably trying to mirror the hypocrisy and blindness sometimes seen in historical conflicts, but it just feels like an artificial spotlight on "look guys, A/H still loathe one another".
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09/09/09, 9:07 PM
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#5214
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg
The presence of one (can't place any of their names, they all look the same) at the entrance to the Black Temple, though, seems to indicate they do have an effect on the field of battle even without charging their "Light-Ion Cannon". Perhaps, like Paladins, they bolster their troops and, likewise, weaken dar beings. Although since I don't remember the Black Temple one providing any aura, this is an assumption.
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Perhaps some better examples of the Naaru battle influence:
* A'dal's Song of Battle
* Captain Theris Dawnhearth yells: " Our victory in Sun's Reach is absolute! The naaru bless us with their presence!" K'iru's Song of Victory
As for the Horde/Alliance combat in Icecrown, if my memory serves me correctly, the dungeon progression shown at Blizzcon was something like this:
* 1st Floor: 1 boss directly in front of the entrance, with the Frozen Throne behind him. 2 winding ramps on either side of the Frozen Throne, leading to the 2nd floor.
* 2nd Floor: Circular room with two open-area balconies overlooking all of Icecrown, with the Frozen Throne in the center of the room. No bosses until you reach the dock, which "begins the Airship Battle Sequence."
* 3rd Floor: This is the big one, with the Plagueworks wing, the Crimson Blood wing and the Sindragosa wing. The eastern wing contains 2 bosses on a linear path. The southern wing contains 2 bosses, one of which is found at the bottom of two parallel ramps in a room beneath the first. The western wing seems particularly detailed, with various offsets, elevations and a boss guarding the entry to a point of significance. It seems that upon completing some kind of objective, a "gated" area in the eastern wing will reveal 3 more bosses, before allowing you to travel to the 4th floor. Two of these three bosses are in perfectly parallel rooms, which suggests (to me) the highest possibilty of Bolvar/Saurfang.
* 4th Floor: Just Arthas on a destructible, circular platform.
So to paraphrase;
1 boss on the 1st floor
1 "boss" on the 2nd floor (airship encounter)
9 bosses on the 3rd floor. (6 bosses in 3 wings, with 3 more unlocked)
1 boss on the 4th floor.
So back to my original point/on-topic, it seems the Alliance/Horde conflict occurs long before we get a glimpse of our fallen comrades, as we're at eachothers throats immediately after the first boss.
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09/09/09, 9:45 PM
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#5215
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Glass Joe
Draenei Shaman
Azjol-Nerub
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How likely is it that we may see Bolvar/Saurfang Jr as the first boss? It would almost make sense to have the Lich King raise some of the Alliance's/Horde's most beloved members right away as a way to demoralize us and discourage us from continuing forward. It would then encourage us to kill the Alliance/Horde next in the airship encounter as a way to get back at what was done to them.
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09/09/09, 10:01 PM
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#5216
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Paladin
Dragonmaw
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I just hate how seemingly stupid the leaders of the factions are with this whole business. So we are going to duke it out before getting to Arthas? So you are willing to kill other members of the living to get to the Lich King? They do realize that the Scourge are former Alliance/Horde people, resurrected under the Lich King's control? So we're just feeding him more troops instead of working together to end the threat, and dealing with each other after the fact? I'm definitely anxious to see how this all plays out because right now, it's pretty ridiculous.
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09/09/09, 10:22 PM
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#5217
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Don Flamenco
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"Don't worry, it's cool - we're fighting them in the sky! Just toss them overboard and there'll be nothing left to re-animate." 
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09/10/09, 12:26 AM
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#5218
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Great Tiger
Troll Death Knight
Mal'Ganis
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I think it would be kind of interesting to expand on that point, where every Alliance/Horde foe/ally slain in the airship battle is resurrected as an undead that you then have to kill again during the encounter. Sort of a three-way death match in the sky.
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Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.
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09/10/09, 1:00 AM
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#5219
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Don Flamenco
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We've seen it before to a lesser extent, in the Gothik Encounter.
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09/10/09, 3:00 AM
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#5220
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wants scorpions that hovar without flapping
Night Elf Druid
Argent Dawn (EU)
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Originally Posted by Kaejin
I think it would be kind of interesting to expand on that point, where every Alliance/Horde foe/ally slain in the airship battle is resurrected as an undead that you then have to kill again during the encounter. Sort of a three-way death match in the sky.
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Further driving home the stupidity of this action. I can see it from Varian maybe at a push (after all surely he has some sort of military trarining, being a King and all) but Saurfang is an obviously astute military mind, trusted so much to be put in charge of the entire Might of Kalimdor at Silithus. It makes no sense for him to battle the Alliance whilst battling the Lich King in his fortress.
I, like others here, suspect he might die in Icecrown as well, probably at the hands of Varian to further the hate in this increasingly forced story line. It also removes him as an opponent of Garosh's old Horde ways for the expansion and would certainly shake even Thrall from his turn the other cheek mentality towards the Alliance.
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09/10/09, 5:51 AM
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#5221
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King Hippo
Orc Warrior
Burning Steppes (EU)
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Oh man, I hadn't thought about Saurfang dying to Varian. It's not that probable, they're supposed to be there for the penultimate tier, right? I always thought Saurfang could die to his son, but it just might be that he survives to grieve for killing his boy. Either way, I can't really see either of our leaders not watching their close one turned into a Death Knight - Saurfang Jr. will probably be in the blood wing, but a true plot-candy would be to have Fordragon horribly disfigured by all the Forsaken Plague he "inhaled" in the plague wing (sick of plague wing, to tell the truth, but this would make it worth it).
Still, I can definitely see some kind of showdown right before fighting Arthas. Varian won't die in the airship race for sure. By the way, will we fight him when boarding the Alliance ship? And what, we just knock him on the nogging and leave him unconscious?
Already I hear Thrall thumping his feet outside Stormwind...hmm...
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09/10/09, 7:53 AM
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#5222
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Don Flamenco
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Originally Posted by Vaccine
Further driving home the stupidity of this action. I can see it from Varian maybe at a push (after all surely he has some sort of military trarining, being a King and all) but Saurfang is an obviously astute military mind, trusted so much to be put in charge of the entire Might of Kalimdor at Silithus. It makes no sense for him to battle the Alliance whilst battling the Lich King in his fortress.
I, like others here, suspect he might die in Icecrown as well, probably at the hands of Varian to further the hate in this increasingly forced story line. It also removes him as an opponent of Garosh's old Horde ways for the expansion and would certainly shake even Thrall from his turn the other cheek mentality towards the Alliance.
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Or perhaps he's _forced_ into fighting the Alliance in Icecrown. Wise leader and smart warrior though he is, if Varian decides to force the issue, he may have no choice but to carry on a three-way free-for-all in order to ensure his troops don't get slaughtered by the "cowardly Alliance dogs" or the minions of the Scourge en route to their goal.
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09/10/09, 9:42 AM
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#5223
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Great Tiger
Troll Death Knight
Mal'Ganis
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That's kind of how I assume it would go. Saurfang is not the type to start something like that, but I could totally see Varian arriving on the scene and going ape when he sees the Horde, like a Bull seeing red. Similar to the Battle for Undercity. No questions asked, kill the green skins. There wouldn't be anything else for Saurfang to do but retaliate.
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Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.
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09/10/09, 10:11 AM
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#5224
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King Hippo
Orc Warrior
Burning Steppes (EU)
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Agreed, although that would go against Blizzard's "make the Horde darker" goal. Either they think the whole story through, no loose strings, and get a real nice excuse for Saurfang and Varian getting entangled (this is a fight I can imagine Varian starting, under the excuse of "Arthas is a human, our business") or I can see this race being nothing more than an excuse for innovative gameplay. Which is fine, but at the end of the day, being left with no plausible explanation for such an important - and stupid - decision as fighting your fellow cop from another precinct on the local mafia boss' courtyard would leave a bad taste.
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09/10/09, 10:12 AM
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#5225
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Bald Bull
Human Paladin
Scarlet Crusade
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Originally Posted by Kaejin
That's kind of how I assume it would go. Saurfang is not the type to start something like that, but I could totally see Varian arriving on the scene and going ape when he sees the Horde, like a Bull seeing red. Similar to the Battle for Undercity. No questions asked, kill the green skins. There wouldn't be anything else for Saurfang to do but retaliate.
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No, Varian is indubitably hotheaded and a meathead, but not overtly stupid. In Undercity it was: "Kill Putress. Done, Putress is dead. Kill Demons. Oh, they're already dead? Fine, kill the Horde." He understands priority perfectly fine. Horde is on his priority list, but below Scourge and Arthas. Of course, Blizzard is perfectly free to have him toss even the thin veneer of reasoning they've given him out the window and have him go psychopathic.
Garrosh, on the other hand, doesn't appear to think beyond what's in front of him at the moment. If Arthas is across the room and an Alliance soldier is next to him, he'd kill the soldier then cross the room. He's the guy in your Emalon raid who will not DPS the add.
Saurfang, on the gripping hand, is a tactical and strategic genius. He'd actively withdraw his troops if Alliance started attacking them, let the Alliance take out their aggression on Scourge until they won (at which point he'd jump and crush them if it was approved), or intervene and "killsteal" if there's a good time for it. I just can't see him actively engaging the Alliance in Icecrown Citadel, even with justification. It's a waste of his own resources. Especially if you're in an airship and can conveniently fly AWAY from the other airship.
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Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."
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