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Old 05/07/09, 12:36 PM   #3226
Douglas
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Originally Posted by Maledict View Post
Naxxramus has been a disaster in terms of PR and player satisfaction...
Really? I'm not seeing this, outside of a few forums. It's hard for me to find anyone I know who isn't delighted with Naxxramas. Has Blizzard said that player reaction has been negative?

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Old 05/07/09, 12:45 PM   #3227
Kirth
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I've finished reading Arthas, I think I would have enjoyed it more had I not played thru Warcraft 3 two or three times. I did notice something interesting at the end:
Click Here ← Click Here

when Arthas is experiencing dream visions of the future presumably via Ner'zul one of them is of a city rising from the depths not having seen the light of day for a long time, and of things scuttling just out of his vision and of a man with antlers. To me this is a huge hint of both Nazjatar and malfurion, the question is if Arthas is having these vision of his future (and presumably he is since everything else seems to involve him somehow.) Will Arthas be around when Nazjatar rises?


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Old 05/07/09, 12:50 PM   #3228
Leviathon
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Could also look at it as him being shown visions via the Old Gods such as from Yogg-Saron since both visions depict areas (the Maelstrom and Emerald Dream) where we assume or know a Old God is located.

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Old 05/07/09, 12:52 PM   #3229
Kirth
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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Could also look at it as him being shown visions via the Old Gods such as from Yogg-Saron since both visions depict areas (the Maelstrom and Emerald Dream) where we assume or know a Old God is located.
The way it reads it seems more like ner'zul is providing these visions since the make a point of noting that in life he had the gift of foresight. But I agree, more old god involvement seems just as likely.

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Old 05/07/09, 12:53 PM   #3230
Leviathon
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They did mention that while Arthas will die the Lich King himself will not back when they announced WotLK but then again they said we would just get in Illidans way and not kill him so I guess we will have to wait and see. The part about Arthas dying makes more sense after the book though considering what we now know about the Lich King.

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Old 05/07/09, 1:03 PM   #3231
Kumar
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Exodar
Originally Posted by Kirth View Post
I've finished reading Arthas, I think I would have enjoyed it more had I not played thru Warcraft 3 two or three times. I did notice something interesting at the end:
Click Here ← Click Here

when Arthas is experiencing dream visions of the future presumably via Ner'zul one of them is of a city rising from the depths not having seen the light of day for a long time, and of things scuttling just out of his vision and of a man with antlers. To me this is a huge hint of both Nazjatar and malfurion, the question is if Arthas is having these vision of his future (and presumably he is since everything else seems to involve him somehow.) Will Arthas be around when Nazjatar rises?

Just wondering, what other visions of the future are described in the book?

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Old 05/07/09, 1:18 PM   #3232
Kirth
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I don't have the book in front of me at the moment but I recall,The events prior to the Wrath of the Like king launching (city invasions by frostwyrms) and the event of Wrathgate. Perhaps 1 or 2 more recognizable visions as well.

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Old 05/07/09, 1:43 PM   #3233
Monocle
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Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
Really? I'm not seeing this, outside of a few forums. It's hard for me to find anyone I know who isn't delighted with Naxxramas. Has Blizzard said that player reaction has been negative?
I have read the exact same thing. Blizzard was extremely pleased with how many new people started raided because Naxx was so accessible. The only thing was they admit it may have been a a bit too easy, but I am sure the benefit outweighs that for them.

Naxx is likely to remain a strange throwback. Even entry level stuff will likely be a little more complex come next expansion, Blizzzard has just gotten better at making things interesting. I am thinking stuff more along the lines of Malygos or Lurker, who is when you get down to it a better entry level encounter then Magtheridon ever was, despite the tier differences.

Anyway... maybe they will combine the Emerland Dream and the Maesltrom? Emerald Dream would be a really hard place to cram a Neutral City and a bunch of quest hub towns in.

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Old 05/07/09, 1:43 PM   #3234
Torrential
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Originally Posted by Douglas View Post
Really? I'm not seeing this, outside of a few forums. It's hard for me to find anyone I know who isn't delighted with Naxxramas. Has Blizzard said that player reaction has been negative?
Blizzards only measurement for such things is how many people went to Naxx each week. Given that it was the only raid content available it was either go there and gear up your raid for potentially better content later, or simply not be the least bit prepared for the later content. Or, obviously, quit.

Most WoW players chose option 1 so while attendance to Naxx may have been high that doesn't mean people liked it.

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Old 05/07/09, 2:22 PM   #3235
Judikael
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Originally Posted by Monocle View Post
I have read the exact same thing. Blizzard was extremely pleased with how many new people started raided because Naxx was so accessible. The only thing was they admit it may have been a a bit too easy, but I am sure the benefit outweighs that for them.

Naxx is likely to remain a strange throwback. Even entry level stuff will likely be a little more complex come next expansion, Blizzzard has just gotten better at making things interesting. I am thinking stuff more along the lines of Malygos or Lurker, who is when you get down to it a better entry level encounter then Magtheridon ever was, despite the tier differences.

Anyway... maybe they will combine the Emerland Dream and the Maesltrom? Emerald Dream would be a really hard place to cram a Neutral City and a bunch of quest hub towns in.
If I remember correctly, you wouldn't be cramming neutral cities in, as the Emerald Dream is an alternate (phased) version of our existing world. You could easily just make ED Moonglade the neutral city or something along those lines. I do however agree that the Emerald Dream will most likely be packaged with Maelstrom.

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Old 05/07/09, 3:27 PM   #3236
Liebestod
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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Only 3 instances were added but there were more instances that shipped with TBC (it would of been like Ulduar shipping with WotLK).
Right, but that's irrelevant to the point of how fast the content cycles are moving. WotLK's is slower, hence I'm assuming that means they're putting in more effort on other projects - ie. the next expansion.

I doubt they moved all their resources to the next expansion before WotLK was even released either considering I remember a interview with Morhaine after WotLK's release with him stating they still hadn't decided what the next expansion was.
You have a source on this? I would be very surprised if it were true. Once Icecrown was finished in the beta, content development effort pretty much just stopped, and it sure as hell wasn't shifted to Ulduar. Where would it have gone if not the next expansion?

Anyways, I agree that the ED doesn't seem like it has enough content to have its own expansion... but I'm sure that Blizzard could expand it as necessary. I don't think mashing it in with the Maelstrom would work, however, as there's already plenty of South Seas lore for an entire expansion if Blizzard chooses to utilize it.

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Old 05/07/09, 3:35 PM   #3237
Mr. Crow
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Originally Posted by Judikael View Post
If I remember correctly, you wouldn't be cramming neutral cities in, as the Emerald Dream is an alternate (phased) version of our existing world. You could easily just make ED Moonglade the neutral city or something along those lines. I do however agree that the Emerald Dream will most likely be packaged with Maelstrom.
I think if they did a "Dreamtime Moonglade" as the capital for an ED expansion, it would be viewed as a copout. Shattrath City and Dalaran both represented dramatic new directions in city design, while Moonglade is just the same three or four NE buildings arranged in different configurations.

I have a lot of trouble believing that there is enough content in the Dream to warrant it's own expansion. Aside from corrupted green dragons and Hakkar recolors, what else is there to fight? How do you handle the power disparity that would logically exist between druids in the real, druids in the Dream, and everyone else?

The Dream will likely be instanced or be a substantial step forward in their implementation of phasing in the old world. But I think the plot of the Emerald Nightmare might mirror the Nexus War -- though I hope for something as steeped in the lore as the Dream, we get a lot more mileage out of it than what we got in the Nexus War.

My bet is that the Maelstrom's expansion's capital is going to be Undermine. It would bring the Goblin Princes back into the story in a big way, and present a new challenge for city design because you want the city to be sweeping in scope but still subterranean. When you consider the establishment that the Goblin Trade Princes might not want to parlay with the Alliance and the Horde directly, it's interesting to wonder what threat would encourage them to open up the 'Mine to the two warring factions.

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Old 05/07/09, 3:56 PM   #3238
Liebestod
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You could have made the same criticisms about Outlands or Northrend - before TBC, Outlands was just a bunch of floating red rocks, and who wants to base an expansion off of Hellfire Peninsula? (Admittedly, there were maps of Draenor from the Warcraft II expansion, but it just looked like a dried-out version of Zangarmarsh back then.) Likewise, before the LoM book, Northrend was just a big snowfield with a glacier and an underground kingdom.

So I think it goes without saying that Blizzard will make up the lore as necessary, and that they'll probably do a good job of it. It's true that there's no major villain in the Emerald Dream like there is for other expansions (Illidan, Arthas, Azshara), but that doesn't mean that they couldn't be introduced and be built up in a compelling manner. There are a ton of awesome possibilities for the Emerald Dream and I'd hate to see it become just a single set of instances or even a non-instanced zone.

Personally I like the idea of mixing it in with Elemental Planes zones, but it's much harder to imagine how those would work.

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Old 05/07/09, 4:17 PM   #3239
Exemplar
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Next X-pac (presumably Maelstrom) would be L90. The one after that L100 (presumably Emerald Dream+). There's always the old (possibly apocryphal) quote that it would take a full raid of L100s to defeat Sargeras. So a 3 act X-pac: Emerald Dream, Elemental Planes (clean up Old God henchmen - completely "free" Azeroth of Old Gods?), Twisting Nether/Titan+Legion Invasion could be done if they wanted to go that direction.

Rock: "We're sub-standard DPS. Nerf Paper, Scissors are fine."
Paper: "OMG, WTF, Scissors!"
Scissors: "Rock is OP and Paper are QQers. We need PvP buffs."

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Old 05/07/09, 4:52 PM   #3240
Leviathon
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Originally Posted by Liebestod View Post
Right, but that's irrelevant to the point of how fast the content cycles are moving. WotLK's is slower, hence I'm assuming that means they're putting in more effort on other projects - ie. the next expansion.



You have a source on this? I would be very surprised if it were true. Once Icecrown was finished in the beta, content development effort pretty much just stopped, and it sure as hell wasn't shifted to Ulduar. Where would it have gone if not the next expansion?

Anyways, I agree that the ED doesn't seem like it has enough content to have its own expansion... but I'm sure that Blizzard could expand it as necessary. I don't think mashing it in with the Maelstrom would work, however, as there's already plenty of South Seas lore for an entire expansion if Blizzard chooses to utilize it.
Unfortunately it is a bit hard to search news posts on worldofwar.net so I can't exactly find it but I do recall reading that last year. Also sure development stopped pretty quick once Icecrown was finished but it was the same exact thing in TBC also (but worse because they did no raid testing). Now sure they probably did have a small team begin work but they have more than 1 team working on the game.

Last edited by Leviathon : 05/07/09 at 5:04 PM.

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