World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 217

Enova · 05/07/09, 6:13 PM

Originally Posted by Mr. Crow

I think if they did a "Dreamtime Moonglade" as the capital for an ED expansion, it would be viewed as a copout. Shattrath City and Dalaran both represented dramatic new directions in city design, while Moonglade is just the same three or four NE buildings arranged in different configurations.

Not necessarily. I mean, just because Moonglade looks like shit in Azeroth, it doesn't mean it has to be the same in the Emerald Dream. Think of the Soul Reaver series, and how different the same things could look between the material and spirit realms. And that's not even factoring in what the transition from the Dream to the Nightmare can do to the place. I for one think the designers could go wild on that one.

Blayze · 05/07/09, 7:41 PM

I mean, just because Moonglade looks like shit in Azeroth, it doesn't mean it has to be the same in the Emerald Dream.

I can see the future given explanation as being that since Moonglade is pretty much some form of uber-Druid area, either the collective powers of the sleeping Druids keep its Emerald Dream counterpart relatively stable compared to the rest of the Dream or they consider the location important enough to focus their efforts on keeping it more stable than the rest.

Talq · 05/07/09, 10:48 PM

Originally Posted by Torrential

Blizzards only measurement for such things is how many people went to Naxx each week. Given that it was the only raid content available it was either go there and gear up your raid for potentially better content later, or simply not be the least bit prepared for the later content. Or, obviously, quit.

Most WoW players chose option 1 so while attendance to Naxx may have been high that doesn't mean people liked it.

The ease of Naxx has caused two reactions: Firstly, people who get the opportunity for easy loot where they would have struggled before. They like it. Secondly, people who cruise through the instance, then after a few weeks realise its more of the same, theres no real challenge or excitement, and the reward at the end will be a suit of epics that they will replace in six months in the next released instance. Having seen the end of the treadmill, they then quit the game.

Its therefore not necessarily clear that easy-raids are necessarily a good thing, even for subscriptions. As it stands, outside of Ulduar, Wrath content (5 mans and Naxx) has been fully consumed by a lot of people with over a year to the next expansion, which raises issues as to if Blizz can keep them interested.

ildon · 05/07/09, 10:49 PM

Going back to the interview for a moment, you have to remember the target audience of wowinsider is not bleeding edge raid guilds. He was probably purposefully talking about all the non-raiding content that would go into 3.2. Most of the questions were about that type of stuff, too (swimming mounts, dual spec, Wintergrasp, etc.)

Keldin · 05/08/09, 2:44 AM

Originally Posted by Kirth

The way it reads it seems more like ner'zul is providing these visions since the make a point of noting that in life he had the gift of foresight. But I agree, more old god involvement seems just as likely.

Didn't the book say that Arthas beat Ner'zhul in his own mind? Despite that fact, if its true then Ner'zhul could have foreseen everything, even Arthas taking over his mind. It could mean while Arthas gets killed by a raid full of loot hungry people, which is pretty much guaranteed, Ner'zhul is going to find a way to stay in existence?

Also, derailing the thread on the 3.2 raid a little. Epic gems, data mined in beta. More proof of a raid, since epic gems in TBC were dropped from MH and BT at first.

Edit - Good grief, enough with naxxlol. Opinions are subjective for a reason.

Kazanir · 05/08/09, 2:49 AM

Some of the latest posts in this thread are incredibly stupid. Naxx was a smashing success by every metric (and Blizzard has voiced that as their opinion.) Ulduar will provide enough content to keep any and every guild occupied for at least the amount of time that Naxx lasted; probably much more. Anyway this really doesn't belong in this thread but the preponderance of evidence clearly demonstrates that Naxx was awesome in almost every way. Don't make me compare Armories to find people who say "zomg Naxx too easy" but don't actually have Black Proto-Drakes.

Emeraude · 05/08/09, 3:08 AM

For those of you discussing the dream, I posted it in it's entirety earlier in the thread.

http://elitistjerks.com/f15/t30118-w...6/#post1210336

And yes, let's move away from the Naxxramas subject, it has nothing to do with my beloved lore! :P

Blayze · 05/08/09, 8:51 AM

A symbol appeared, one Arthas knew--the L of Lordaeron, impaled by a sword, but depicated in red, not blue. The symbol changed, became a red flame on a white background. The flame seemed to spark to a life of its own and engulfed the background, burning it away to reveal the silvery waters of a vast expanse of water...a sea...

The mountains themselves came to life, taking giant strides, crushing everything luckless enough to cross their paths. With each mammoth footfall, the world seemed to tremble and shake.

These two pieces... I can't for the life of me work out what exactly they mean, save for the first one possibly having something to do with the Forsaken since former Lordaeron is the home of the Forsaken now, and the second one... the giants? Was that a way of linking in Ulduar and the Storm Peaks, or is there more to come from the giants? (Or, alternatively, was it something that happened in the past that I've forgotten about?)

I assume the whole dream isn't necessarily in chronological order, since it mentions the attack on Orgrimmar before the mention of Silithus and I'm damn sure the first Scourge Invasion happened after the Gates were opened.

Monocle · 05/08/09, 9:07 AM

Well Lordaeron did go from being an Alliance member (blue) to a Horde member (red). That's a pretty simple explanation, maybe too simple. Maybe the impalement by the sword refers to kill murdering his father? Silvery waters, uhhhhh maybe a relation to Silvermoon? Lordaeron is now lead by a former high ranking Silvermoon comander.

Okay that may be grasping a bit.

I think an Ulduar link for the other passage works well, can not think of any other matches for it.

Ungeir · 05/08/09, 9:15 AM

I believe the vision of Lordaeron's L morphing into a red flame on a white background refers to the Scarlet Crusade/Onslaught.

The last one with the mountains must refer to a future event.

Bren · 05/08/09, 9:19 AM

The first one is obviously referring to the Scarlet Crusade. Lordaeron becoming a new faction with "Red flame on white" for a symbol? What else could it be?

The flame giving way to the water (in the last sentence) is either just a transition to the next vision. (Rising of a continent) or is referring to the Scarlet Crusade going to Northrend as the Scarlet Onslaught.

/edit: Ungeir got it before me.

Gumibear · 05/08/09, 9:21 AM

Originally Posted by Ungeir

I believe the vision of Lordaeron's L morphing into a red flame on a white background refers to the Scarlet Crusade/Onslaught.

File:Scarlet Banner.jpg - WoWWiki - Your guide to the World of Warcraft

You're right. It's symbolic of the forming of the Scarlet Crusade then becoming the Scarlet Onslaught as they traveled the seas to Northrend

The last one with the mountains must refer to a future event.

This could possibly be the march of the giants from the Howling Fjord to the Stormpeaks.

Emeraude · 05/08/09, 10:17 AM

Indeed, lore class is in session, the referred to banners:

Lordaeron:

Scarlet Crusade:

Morphing into red flame on white background = Scarlet Tabard:

Leviathon · 05/08/09, 2:19 PM

The mountains part could also be referring to the Titans if we are to assume that the Pantheon and other real Titans are very very large.

Judikael · 05/08/09, 2:19 PM

Originally Posted by Enova

Not necessarily. I mean, just because Moonglade looks like shit in Azeroth, it doesn't mean it has to be the same in the Emerald Dream. Think of the Soul Reaver series, and how different the same things could look between the material and spirit realms. And that's not even factoring in what the transition from the Dream to the Nightmare can do to the place. I for one think the designers could go wild on that one.

There's this, and also, who's to say they don't just update Moonglade in the real world either? Things don't have to stay the same size or the exact same as they are right now. Silithis was changed dramatically in the past, the same could be done here. It wouldn't necessarily have to be the exact mirror image either. It is corrupted there, so it would be Azeroth, but a very twisted version, requiring some new artwork. I'm not opposed to that at all, plus I know my way around already, heh.

Also, as far as ED not having a big baddy to kill at the end, we don't really know for certain what is corrupting the Dream. All we know is a lot of badass druids are there trying to fix it. If Malfurion or Cenarius can't fix it, it has to be something pretty serious going on there. The lore isn't existing but make a book, a comic series, a few videos, or even some quests/events to lead in and we're up to speed.