World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS] - Page 220

Counter_Break · 05/13/09, 6:13 PM

Going back to the topic of what Blizz will do about a neutral city in the Emerald Dream, perhaps they'll open up the Eye of Ysera? Perhaps the situation in the Dream gets so desperate that Ysera opens up her sanctum to heroes in order to try and fight back the Nightmare? Since the wowwiki entry states that the buildings in the Eye are "among the few buildings on the plane's surface," I doubt that there would be a whole separate city in the zone (at least, not one big enough to be considered a capital/hub city). Of course, that info could be wrong/get ret-conned, but for now it seems like a possibility.

Regarding using Moonglade as a neutral city - From our brief time in the Emerald Dream (as part of the quest Hope Within the Emerald Nightmare), it seems like the area around Moonglade's location in the ED is in pretty bad shape, and though we can't really see Nighthaven through all the gloom, it doesn't exactly look very hospitable at the moment.

Camaris · 05/14/09, 5:11 AM

Re: Elemental lieutenants.. Yeah, that's one of those things that's always bugged me. Especially the completely unclear "just regular elementals" versus "servants of the Old Gods" for their underlings. Sure, all the Barons and Dukes and whatnot are clearly higher-up in the actual elemental 'armies', but its rather unclear how they relate to the countless 'regular' elements that appear in the world (the ones that shamans work with). And of course, then there are the stranger elementals that aren't just blobs of fire/earth/etc.: those naga-like Molten Core things, the hydras, wind serpents, stone giants posing as Elemental Dukes, and maybe even Hakkar.

And also.. weren't Revenants supposed to be specifically a soldier type of elemental, expressly as part of the Old God's legions? I was assuming that whatever was left of the revenants in Northrend were remnants of those (Yogg-Saron's) forces, but now they are seemingly used as "generic elementals" as well in Ulduar...

The elementals are generally a mess lore-wise, and I don't really suspect we'll ever visit their elemental planes in an expansion. However, we haven't really had a proper second Ragnaros-like raidboss (Murmur was a miniature version of it), so I would somehow expect Neptulon to make an appearance in the Nazjatar expansion.

Leviathon · 05/14/09, 5:13 AM

Originally Posted by Camaris

Re: Elemental lieutenants.. Yeah, that's one of those things that's always bugged me. Especially the completely unclear "just regular elementals" versus "servants of the Old Gods" for their underlings. Sure, all the Barons and Dukes and whatnot are clearly higher-up in the actual elemental 'armies', but its rather unclear how they relate to the countless 'regular' elements that appear in the world (the ones that shamans work with). And of course, then there are the stranger elementals that aren't just blobs of fire/earth/etc.: those naga-like Molten Core things, the hydras, wind serpents, stone giants posing as Elemental Dukes, and maybe even Hakkar.

And also.. weren't Revenants supposed to be specifically a soldier type of elemental, expressly as part of the Old God's legions? I was assuming that whatever was left of the revenants in Northrend were remnants of those (Yogg-Saron's) forces, but now they are seemingly used as "generic elementals" as well in Ulduar...

The elementals are generally a mess lore-wise, and I don't really suspect we'll ever visit their elemental planes in an expansion. However, we haven't really had a proper second Ragnaros-like raidboss (Murmur was a miniature version of it), so I would somehow expect Neptulon to make an appearance in the Nazjatar expansion.

Revenants were described in WC3 as undead elemental spirits who the Lich King could not control so it seems they followed that pretty well in WotLK.

Vaccine · 05/14/09, 7:44 AM

Double post

Vaccine · 05/14/09, 7:45 AM

Originally Posted by Counter_Break

Going back to the topic of what Blizz will do about a neutral city in the Emerald Dream, perhaps they'll open up the Eye of Ysera? Perhaps the situation in the Dream gets so desperate that Ysera opens up her sanctum to heroes in order to try and fight back the Nightmare? Since the wowwiki entry states that the buildings in the Eye are "among the few buildings on the plane's surface," I doubt that there would be a whole separate city in the zone (at least, not one big enough to be considered a capital/hub city). Of course, that info could be wrong/get ret-conned, but for now it seems like a possibility.

Regarding using Moonglade as a neutral city - From our brief time in the Emerald Dream (as part of the quest Hope Within the Emerald Nightmare), it seems like the area around Moonglade's location in the ED is in pretty bad shape, and though we can't really see Nighthaven through all the gloom, it doesn't exactly look very hospitable at the moment.

This was what I thought as well, the Eye of Ysera is said to be constantly moving but I've no dobut Ysera could stop it if the need arose, and you could then have a city and landscape that didn't appear in the waking world. Could be a hub for various Nightmare encounters.

At the end of the day though I think the Dream doesn't translate well to a game so I think it would be more likely to be a single top level zone with a couple of dungeons, and a raid or two. I don't think I could put up with the green haze you get for much longer.

Désespoir · 05/14/09, 8:43 AM

Ysera is going insane based on the quests in Dragonblight. She will probably not help us.

Malfurion would be a better ally in Emerald Dream

Duodecimal · 05/14/09, 9:13 AM

Originally Posted by Désespoir

Malfurion would be a better ally in Emerald Dream

Don't put any money on that.

Exemplar · 05/14/09, 9:23 AM

It's also possible an Emerald Dream neutral city could function like the sky ships in Icecrown. Remember, Blizzard is always pushing and improving their technology. They could make the Emerald Dream actually shift and cause the safe zone to move - potentially even across several zones. Explanation being it's the ED moving around the city, not the city itself moving - or that the city moves through the Nightmare to avoid being overrun.

I'm honestly surprised they haven't patched this in to Dalaran. Make it float around Crystalsong at the least. But I guess the Kirin Tor are confident that Arthas cannot reach into Crystalsong, so it's safe to just sit there and stare at their navels.

NykylaiHellray · 05/14/09, 9:32 AM

Originally Posted by Camaris

Re: Elemental lieutenants.. Yeah, that's one of those things that's always bugged me. Especially the completely unclear "just regular elementals" versus "servants of the Old Gods" for their underlings. Sure, all the Barons and Dukes and whatnot are clearly higher-up in the actual elemental 'armies', but its rather unclear how they relate to the countless 'regular' elements that appear in the world (the ones that shamans work with). And of course, then there are the stranger elementals that aren't just blobs of fire/earth/etc.: those naga-like Molten Core things, the hydras, wind serpents, stone giants posing as Elemental Dukes, and maybe even Hakkar.

And also.. weren't Revenants supposed to be specifically a soldier type of elemental, expressly as part of the Old God's legions? I was assuming that whatever was left of the revenants in Northrend were remnants of those (Yogg-Saron's) forces, but now they are seemingly used as "generic elementals" as well in Ulduar...

The elementals are generally a mess lore-wise, and I don't really suspect we'll ever visit their elemental planes in an expansion. However, we haven't really had a proper second Ragnaros-like raidboss (Murmur was a miniature version of it), so I would somehow expect Neptulon to make an appearance in the Nazjatar expansion.

I see the old gods more as chaos made flesh. The forces which spawned when the universe was young, personifications of chaos and unbound power (elementals of pure energy). The energy which made matter and the elements which came with it (to back this up I am looking at the information about Murmur, saying he was born at the start of the universe).

In that respects I see them more like Azathoth (the daemon sultan), then Cthulhu.

I interpret original story of the old gods meeting the titans, as not just a single planet but the universe itself (looking at the quote said by Harbinger Skyriss in the Arcatraz).

That the titans saw a universe in chaos, and that they tried to order the universe. Binding the old gods in a material form, and then trapping them in a world.

So they could become the new gods.

Then when the old gods started to change what they had made, they came back and rebound them.

So in a way I see the elementals more as minor aspects of the old gods powers.

Keldin · 05/14/09, 9:34 AM

Originally Posted by Exemplar

*snip* I'm honestly surprised they haven't patched this in to Dalaran. Make it float around Crystalsong at the least. But I guess the Kirin Tor are confident that Arthas cannot reach into Crystalsong, so it's safe to just sit there and stare at their navels.

The thing with crystalsong is that any undead that tries to enter will crumble to dust. It has to do with the Great Tree in the area. The one linked to the Emerald Dream. That's a pretty good reason for Dalaran not to be floating around the place. Also Crystalsong is a bit little.

Monocle · 05/14/09, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by Duodecimal

Don't put any money on that.

Malfurion may have some protection by virtue of the fact that Metzen really likes him. One of the reasosn "Stormrage" is being written is to bring him back to the forefront.

Malfurion could easily fit the same role that Khadgar and Rhonin have. I am kinda hoping they do not go the corrupted route with him, for one thing it would create some major story issues with Tyrande.

Another option would be to bring Staghelm back into the storyline and make him go bad, maybe even find out the whole story on what he is currently up too. Kinda don't want him to go bad either though, I like him being a big jerk Arch Druid on the side of the Alliance, it makes things interesting and very different from the average Druid NPC in the game.

Now for the Elemental Lords, I agree that Neptulon would be the most likely candidate to go after. For one he may be active on Azeroth right now. He would also be the easiest to just involve from what is currently in game, there are a bunch of references to him, so Blizzard maybe doing a slow build up to introduce him.

Therazan is from most accounts is relatively benign, and may need a redesign as Princess from Mauradon's model is really close to the art for Therazan. Al'Akir, not sure where he could be fit in.

Liebestod · 05/14/09, 10:37 AM

Al'Akir would've made a great Ulduar boss, imo.. I mentioned this earlier. Storm Peaks has a ton of air elementals, there's an Old God... would've made sense. Ah well.

Monocle · 05/14/09, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Liebestod

Al'Akir would've made a great Ulduar boss, imo.. I mentioned this earlier. Storm Peaks has a ton of air elementals, there's an Old God... would've made sense. Ah well.

I wonder if Al'Akir's ship has already sailed, so to speak. From the small information out there, all we know is he completely nuts, and he is weak compared to the other Elemental Lords. Compared to some of the things we have encountered, he just doesn't seem like a major threat anymore. He may even now be 5 man instance material now.

How bad can he be compared to Murmur?

Cranberry · 05/14/09, 1:11 PM

Originally Posted by Keldin

The thing with crystalsong is that any undead that tries to enter will crumble to dust. It has to do with the Great Tree in the area. The one linked to the Emerald Dream. That's a pretty good reason for Dalaran not to be floating around the place. Also Crystalsong is a bit little.

So wait a minute - why hasn't the Lich King done the same thing here that he did in Sholazar? Cultists were able to pass the Titan's protections, and the dragons certainly aren't that powerful. Does the Dream contain that much power?

Monocle · 05/14/09, 1:33 PM

Originally Posted by Cranberry

So wait a minute - why hasn't the Lich King done the same thing here that he did in Sholazar? Cultists were able to pass the Titan's protections, and the dragons certainly aren't that powerful. Does the Dream contain that much power?

Maybe it's related to how the Emerald Dragon Shrine works? That one has a similar deal, all undead except Foresaken are pretty much destroyed on entering. Sounds like the same deal.