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Old 05/14/09, 2:29 PM   #3301
Leviathon
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Originally Posted by Liebestod View Post
Al'Akir would've made a great Ulduar boss, imo.. I mentioned this earlier. Storm Peaks has a ton of air elementals, there's an Old God... would've made sense. Ah well.
I think Al'akir missed his chance to appear when Blizzard re-did Silithus and what they originally were going to do with AQ.

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Old 05/14/09, 3:34 PM   #3302
 Goatbert
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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
I think Al'akir missed his chance to appear when Blizzard re-did Silithus and what they originally were going to do with AQ.
Do we know what the original plan was?

One of the things I like speculating about is how much the final products we see look like what Blizzard envisioned when they stuck these unfinished places on the maps. With them cutting off half the zone I assume Silithus was nothing like what they original imagined.

Originally Posted by JamesVZ View Post
Yeah, I guess if you don't consider pure happiness a flavor, Hitler.

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Old 05/14/09, 4:51 PM   #3303
Leviathon
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Originally Posted by Goatbert View Post
Do we know what the original plan was?

One of the things I like speculating about is how much the final products we see look like what Blizzard envisioned when they stuck these unfinished places on the maps. With them cutting off half the zone I assume Silithus was nothing like what they original imagined.
We only know it was supposed to be a large outdoor raid but due to the success of ZG they decided to turn it into a 20 man and 40 man raid. I just assume the original plan was for a C'Thun and Al'akir to be there instead of just C'Thun just since there was so much buildup about the elements followed by nothing at all in AQ.

There are a lot of things that we know Blizzard changed from their original plans either for a future expansion, time constraints or they just changed their minds. You really get an idea of how the original ideas were if you ever look at things from the alpha of vanilla WoW.

The original plans for WoW had Northrend, a part of Outland (Hellfire) and Undermine being in the game but obviously that was too much. The instance plans (which we were shown at Blizzcon) for vanilla WoW also had the Dragon Isles marked as a raid instance that was meant to be released which were those 4 islands north of Tirisfal.

Naxxramas was originally above Stratholme and its entrance was at the slaughterhouse similar to how MC and BWL have entrances in BRD and UBRS. There used to be a old Strat in the files also which just had Naxx as part of the instance.

Zul'gurub was originally going to be a leveling zone similar to Winterspring but was instead changed into a raid (Tigole told us this).

There used to be 2 islands off the coast of STV which were Gillijim's Isle and The Island of Doctor Lapidis. You can actually still see the remains of Gillijim's Isle in the current game if you go to where it used to be in the ocean as the zone name will change to that.

Zul'aman was meant to be a zone (according to the initial TBC announcement info) but was later dropped into a raid.

When TBC was announced they mentioned there would be a instance where whichever faction you allied with determined what instance you could go into. That instance was likely Auchindoun.

The Coilfang instances were supposed to use some new technology where the mobs scaled with the level of your group.

There was a town in Blade's Edge named the Gron'bar Shrine which I'd imagine is what Ogri'la came from.

We were supposed to take the portals in Outland to Legion worlds and were even supposed to see one of the portals opened before WotLK or shortly after WotLK's release which would of had us finally meet Alleria and possibly Turalyon.

Borean Tundra had its storyline altered. The original story was that the Naga were trying to melt the ice caps there but instead we now have 1 living Naga in the zone and the Kvaldir and in turn Kaskala was turned into a ruin. The Malygos storyline also was pretty altered from the original story of Malygos regaining his sanity due to the presence of the Netherdragons Tyri brought.

Dragonblight was very altered from the concept map we were shown when WotLK was released. Icemist Village was the Horde town instead of Ag'mars Hammer and the entrance to Azjol-Nerub was where the Wrath Gate is now. There also was a neutral town near the entrance to AN which was likely Doorward or Sundered Monolith.

Grizzly Hills was slightly altered from the concept map we were shown. Solstice Village was marked as a neutral town for example.

Drak'tharon was supposed to be 2 instances but the second instance was dropped in turn of Gundrak it seems. They announced the 2 instances before they decided to do the 10 and 25 man versions of single instances and I'd imagine Gundrak was meant to be a 10 man raid.

We know the Storm Peaks and Ulduar storyline was altered due to the dropping of Azjol-Nerub but we don't know anything about the original story.

Least those are the main things I can remember off the top of my head.

Last edited by Leviathon : 05/14/09 at 5:26 PM.

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Old 05/14/09, 5:27 PM   #3304
Starfire
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Originally Posted by Monocle View Post
Maybe it's related to how the Emerald Dragon Shrine works? That one has a similar deal, all undead except Foresaken are pretty much destroyed on entering. Sounds like the same deal.
You might of stumbled on to something much bigger...

This might explain Crystalsong Forest itself... We know the Scourge can't enter Crystalsong Forest, but we also know there are undeads there (besides Forsaken, there are also Night-Elf spirits). The one thing it has going for it (besides Dalaran and Night-Elf ruins) is the Great Tree. A portal to the Emerald Dream.

Interesting... extrapolating a bit, there is another portal to the Emerald Dream in Seradane which buffers Eastern Plaguelands from Hinterlands too.

Originally Posted by arison View Post
Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.

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Old 05/14/09, 9:53 PM   #3305
Leviathon
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Originally Posted by Starfire View Post
You might of stumbled on to something much bigger...

This might explain Crystalsong Forest itself... We know the Scourge can't enter Crystalsong Forest, but we also know there are undeads there (besides Forsaken, there are also Night-Elf spirits). The one thing it has going for it (besides Dalaran and Night-Elf ruins) is the Great Tree. A portal to the Emerald Dream.

Interesting... extrapolating a bit, there is another portal to the Emerald Dream in Seradane which buffers Eastern Plaguelands from Hinterlands too.
Think the little bit about Crystalsong mentioned how it almost seemed the forest was sentient when it reacted to the Scourge the way it did so it could just be that the Emerald Dream is like that with areas it is connected to.

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Old 05/14/09, 11:13 PM   #3306
Liebestod
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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
We know the Storm Peaks and Ulduar storyline was altered due to the dropping of Azjol-Nerub but we don't know anything about the original story.
Except for the "Father" lines..

Obviously Blizzard had some plans for Crystalsong as well that were never implemented, most likely concerning the Blue Dragonflight vs. Dalaran.

There was originally supposed to be a raid for Utgarde.

You mentioned that Zul'Aman was supposed to be a leveling zone, but I think this is incorrect... they originally intended to have three Quel'Thalas zones - Eversong, Ghostlands, and Sunwell Plateau. Obviously Sunwell was released in the content cycle later on as Quel'Danas, but I don't believe the third zone was ever meant to be Zul'Aman. These zones were actually supposed to be in vanilla WoW and Ghostlands was originally called the "northern plaguelands".

The Emerald Dream was also worked on for vanilla WoW - I believe there were three zones for it in the datafiles, it looked like they would probably be instances with at least one raid. I think they also planned to have Kul'Tiras as a major hub, presumably for Alliance.

Grim Batol was supposed to be a vanilla raid.

Interestingly, I don't think a word was ever said about Uldum or Hyjal, even though Hyjal was pretty much all mapped out.

There are also a lot of well-known incomplete areas and largely-dropped storylines: The Scythe of Elune (picked up a bit in GH), the riders of Karazhan (will probably never be picked up), Shady Rest Inn (resolved in the TBC content cycle), the Grimtotem storyline (may be picked up later), Eranikus' questchain (kinda resolved in the AQ quest chain?), Darkwhisper Gorge... there are more than a few loose ends.

Also, re: Al'Akir and Silithus... I could see it, I suppose, but it never seemed like C'Thun controlled any elementals, while it's clear that Air Elementals were a part of the Iron Army.

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Old 05/15/09, 1:43 AM   #3307
Leviathon
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I think Grim Batol was like Timbermaw Hold, Uldum and a few other areas and was dropped very early in the content cycle compared to Dragon Isles which were kept on it. Yea I got mixed up on the ZA part and we can see how Quel'thelas was meant to be originally in the game just by looking at the classic manual along with the islands of Kul'tiras, Tol Barad(there is actually a art asset for this in the files still) and etc.

The Emerald Dream was brought up as a raid by Tigole in classic WoWs Beta but that idea seems like it was dropped quick.

While C'Thun didn't seem to control many elementals I think that is just the result of them changing what AQ originally was going to be.

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Old 05/15/09, 9:37 AM   #3308
ildon
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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
The Malygos storyline also was pretty altered from the original story of Malygos regaining his sanity due to the presence of the Netherdragons Tyri brought.
Malygos is sane. He just doesn't consider the lives of mortal races to be as important as sealing magic away in order to avert another visit from the Burning Legion. If you really think about it, other than PCs, how many mortals, on the whole, actually use arcane magic? Probably a pretty small percentage. The only real hole (massive as it is) in the logic of it is that the Lich King is breathing down his neck. And also that the mortal races had already turned away at least 2 or 3 incursions of the legion without his help by using that same magic he wishes to seal.

Ok so it doesn't make that much sense, but you could still say he's sane, just dumb/arrogant. My point is that just because we kill someone as a raid boss who you would normally think would be on our side doesn't mean "they went INSANE! and now you have to kill them".

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Old 05/15/09, 9:58 AM   #3309
Monocle
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I remember waaaaay back before AQ was openned up, there was some speculation that Al'Akir would be the final boss there, sorta follow up to Rag. With Thunderfury having connections to Silithus, it was a very good guess at the time. This was back when Silithus was even more fo an empty wasteland with a few hives, air elementals and a wandering Anubisath that would kill players who wandered into the zone. When C'Thun was discovered which was uhhh around October 2005, it was a pretty big shock, as us going up against an Old God, even a piece of one, seemed impossible at the time.

Eranikus' main story did appear to be wrapped up with the gate event. His brother is now no longer beingn a babysitter to the whelps, so he has moved on. Eranikus would be a pretty great character to have around as a helpful NPC if we get to visit the Emerald Dream. He has experienced the Nightmare first hand, and was freed thanks to the efforts of the younger races. He has good motivation to go beyond just asking Druids for help to stop the mess inside it.

If it comes to it, he could also be a possible replacement for Ysera if she is too far gone. With the normal Greens actively fighting the Nightmare, if she fully falls to it, he would be a good rallying point for the survivors. I don't see them falling all in line to her orders if she has become the very thing they have been fighting.

Eranikus also shows that if someone is corrutped by the Nightmare, they can be cleansed, so there could be hope for Ysera if that's the case.

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Old 05/15/09, 2:40 PM   #3310
Leviathon
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Originally Posted by ildon View Post
Malygos is sane. He just doesn't consider the lives of mortal races to be as important as sealing magic away in order to avert another visit from the Burning Legion. If you really think about it, other than PCs, how many mortals, on the whole, actually use arcane magic? Probably a pretty small percentage. The only real hole (massive as it is) in the logic of it is that the Lich King is breathing down his neck. And also that the mortal races had already turned away at least 2 or 3 incursions of the legion without his help by using that same magic he wishes to seal.

Ok so it doesn't make that much sense, but you could still say he's sane, just dumb/arrogant. My point is that just because we kill someone as a raid boss who you would normally think would be on our side doesn't mean "they went INSANE! and now you have to kill them".
Well I never said he wasn't sane but only that they changed the story. In the story we have now we don't know what made him sane and start seeing things differently while in the initial story it was Tyri bringing Netherdragons to him that made him regain his sanity. The entire War of Magic was a complete letdown and you can tell it was rushed and unfinished.

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Old 05/15/09, 2:56 PM   #3311
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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Well I never said he wasn't sane but only that they changed the story. In the story we have now we don't know what made him sane and start seeing things differently while in the initial story it was Tyri bringing Netherdragons to him that made him regain his sanity. The entire War of Magic was a complete letdown and you can tell it was rushed and unfinished.
Yeah, the entire "War on Magic" plotline (which by the way was supposed to be the reason for Dalaran coming to Northrend) was a huge letdown, it consisted of a few quests in Borean Tundra and the beginning of Dragonblight, and then pretty much stopped until you stumble upon Sapphiron's convieniently still working key to the Focusing Iris. The area south of Dalaran with the floating platforms, energy shield and dragonkin shows they had planned to do more with it, but it got scrapped relativley late in development along with the rest of Crystalsong Forest. If it weren't for Dalaran and the few daily quests using the zone (some of which were added with 3.1), it would be completely useless. And seeing as we killed Malygos, I fear they consider the War on Magic more or less finished for now.

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Old 05/15/09, 6:31 PM   #3312
ildon
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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Well I never said he wasn't sane but only that they changed the story. In the story we have now we don't know what made him sane and start seeing things differently while in the initial story it was Tyri bringing Netherdragons to him that made him regain his sanity. The entire War of Magic was a complete letdown and you can tell it was rushed and unfinished.
Azure Drake - NPC - World of Warcraft

I thought these drakes were supposed to represent the hybrid blue/nether drakes.

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Old 05/15/09, 6:40 PM   #3313
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Er, Azure is just another shade of blue. There's no reason to presume they are anything other than blue drakes, in the same way a "crimson drake" would just be a red drake.

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Old 05/15/09, 10:37 PM   #3314
Leviathon
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Yea Azure is just a better way of saying Blue Drake. I just wish they kept with the original story since it would of been a good continuation of the Netherdragon storyline possibly.

Least with the new Aspect of Magic being unveiled later this year (who we can all guess will be Kalec) I can see them making some mini story where a faction of Blue Dragons refuse to follow the new Aspect and cause a bit of a internal battle.

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Old 05/16/09, 2:20 AM   #3315
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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
Least those are the main things I can remember off the top of my head.
The following is trimmed from a list Tigole posted on the R&D boards a few years ago. I cut out the class changes (and a few other things). If anybody wants the full list send me a PM.

Back in the day, Blackrock Depths and Molten Core were one zone, roughly half the size. Ragnaros's lair was just one boss room of the then tiny BRD.

Back in the day, Upper Blackrock Spire and Blackwing Lair were one dungeon. LBRS didn't exist. All you had was the run through UBRS and then the stairs behind Rend/Nefarious led up to Nefarian's Balcony.

Back in the day, Zul'Gurub was supposed to be a level up zone like Winterspring, EP, Silithus etc... Then it became a 40 man raid zone. The players said they wanted a 20 man raid zone so we changed it.

Back in the day, The Temple of AQ used to sit in the middle of the Ruins of AQ -- they were one zone. We thought it was too big so we split them into two zones.

Back in the day, the Monastery was one wing. Herod's room was only the midway point through the dungeon. The graveyard and library did not exist.

Back in the day, Blackrock Spire was originally planned to be a level 35 dungeon.

Back in the day, Scholomance was just supposed to be a 1 quest micro dungeon. You know that crypt near Uther's Tomb? That's what it was supposed to be. There would be 1, maybe 2 quests pointing at it, non-elite. The level designer did such a good job with it that we decided to instance it, put it on Caer Darrow and make it a dungeon

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