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Old 05/18/09, 5:05 PM   #3331
Leviathon
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Worgen Druid
 
Blade's Edge
Well the thing about the comic is out and it seems the Council of Tirisfal will be back. Not much of a surprise considering it was mentioned a while back that the Council of Tirisfal would be coming back.

The new Council of Tirisfal is formed! Med’an keeps Meryl’s possession a secret. Maraad acts on his vision, but what does it have to do with Valeera?

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Old 05/19/09, 12:08 PM   #3332
Emeraude
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Sargeras
Vindicator Maraad is a Draenei Paladin, what the heck does he want with Garona/Valeera.

Here's hoping we find out who Med'an's father is before #22. Though it if it's like the first series this arc should last until #28, IE no conclusion until.......Feb next year. >_<

To branch off for a second, I wanted to bring up the Nathrezim(Dreadlords), in WC3 there were 5 Dreadlords of note(6 if you count Anetheron, but he was fairly minor and was murdered horribly @ Hyjal).

Balnazzar - "Killed" by Varimathras, later found to be alive and took hold of the Scarlet Crusade in the Plaguelands.
Mal'Ganis - "Killed" by Arthas, later found to be alive and lead the corrupted Crusade to Northrend.
Varimathras - Alive, attempted a coup against Undercity and failed, and is now dead...maybe >.>
Detheroc - Killed by Sylvanas
Tichondrius - Killed by Illidan after he absorbed the Skull of Gul'dan.

Now I'd assume that Detheroc is probably dead for real...maybe, you just never know with these Nathrezim. But there's another one that I have serious doubts about, and that's Tichondrius. He was killed by Illidan in an attempt to push the Legion back out of Felwood, after being defeated, Illidan was expelled by his brother, and then somehow he came to be under the employ of the Legion. >.> Granted, the legion's forces were all over Kalimdor at that point, but there's always a good chance that it went through somebody of Tichondrius's standing. Then it occurred to me that if a member of the Nathrezim was "killed" and keeping cover in Kalimdor, he'd have to take possession of a high profile mortal, and from there, I made the leap over to our old friend Fandral Staghelm.

Now, it's not much to go on, but in the comics, after Saidan Dathrohan was possessed by Balnazzar, it appeared that Balnazzar retained most, if not all of Dathrohan's memories. Nobody could tell, the Nathrezim operate in shadow if they can, they sow seeds of discord, and attempt to rise to positions of power and bring those around them crashing down hard to their own ends. Fandral's actions fit in WoW/Comic fit the criteria. Dividing the Cenarian Circle, getting possesion of artifacts, challenging Tyrande's rule in Malfurion's absence. Fandral is in a position very very similar to that of Varimathras, he has more then enough followers if he wanted to stage a coup.

Most of this is pretty baseless speculation on my part, but I'd like to hear other people's opinions. Is Fandral possessed, or is he just a jerk with a tragic history? Does he have more to do with the Nightmare in the dream? In Warcraft #17 he contacts Broll through the dream and summons him back to Darnassus, which means he retains his Druid magic and ability to travel the dream.

What is the most important thing to you? Won't you grant me the pleasure of taking it away.

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Old 05/19/09, 12:17 PM   #3333
Starfire
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Maybe I am missing something but... Why wouldn't Fandraal "retain" his Druid magic and ability to travel the dream?

Personally, I see Fandraal as a Douglas MacArthur. The hell with the Chinese! But I think you're on to something. The Morrowgrain research is also akin to the "New Plague".

Last edited by Starfire : 05/19/09 at 12:24 PM.

Originally Posted by arison View Post
Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.

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Old 05/19/09, 12:38 PM   #3334
ildon
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I would be really disappointed if you're right. I like having a character who's just a jerk because he's a jerk, not because he's possessed by a demon.

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Old 05/19/09, 1:55 PM   #3335
Cobs
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Malorne
Theres the whole corruption of Teldrassil thing that they havent really resolved that well. But I agree, I like Fandral being the Night Elf hardliner like hellscream is, gives the leadership internal problems to deal with in addition to the external stuff.

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Old 05/19/09, 2:57 PM   #3336
Leviathon
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I doubt he is possessed just since he was never around where any of the powerful Dreadlords were when they 'died'. All the other possessions occurred in the area where that Dreadlord was supposedly killed not on entirely different continents. Sure we have Tichondrius (and possibly Anetheron) but I'd imagine Tichondrius was pretty killed when Illidan used the Skull on him.

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Old 05/19/09, 3:15 PM   #3337
Monocle
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Durotan
Well Vindicator Maraad does have an action "figure" (pretty statue that really can do no action whatsoever) so I expected to see him in the comic at some point. He was also featured in Slideshow's WoW diorama along with Valeera.

Good chance we will get to see the diorama fight scene played out at some point in the comic now that they are both around.

Staghelm has a history of just being a jerk even before the 2nd invasion of the Legion. Malfurion kept him around even if they disagreed.

I like him just being a mean old jerk, adds some layers to the Night Elves politically.

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Old 05/19/09, 4:02 PM   #3338
Illyra
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Of all the dreadlords we've seen killed, I have the most final feel about Tichondrius, seeing as there was the extra punch of the Skull of Gul'dan involved. I also think that there must be some kind of power check involved when it comes to possession, so I would find this a bit hard to believe in Staghelm's case, given that he is probably second only to Malfurion and has shown considerable willpower.
Not that there weren't plenty of plausible 'corruption'-style pathways for finally extending the ability to kick his pompous behind to Alliance players, something probably most of them wanted to do when first encountering him in-game. He is, after all, power-hungry, really attached to his previous immortality, arrogant, and xenophobic. I still think this wouldn't be the most attractive way of getting Staghelm back into the game, partly because I think the whole corruption business is getting really old. I mean, there should be more reasons to do questionable things than being possessed, corrupted, mind-controlled, or otherwise deprived of your free will. Personally, I'd rather fancy some kind of setup where Staghelm and Hellscream were at some kind of battlefront together, depending on each other for their lives, but hating each others guts all day long.

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Old 05/19/09, 8:58 PM   #3339
Emeraude
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Originally Posted by Leviathon View Post
I doubt he is possessed just since he was never around where any of the powerful Dreadlords were when they 'died'. All the other possessions occurred in the area where that Dreadlord was supposedly killed not on entirely different continents. Sure we have Tichondrius (and possibly Anetheron) but I'd imagine Tichondrius was pretty killed when Illidan used the Skull on him.
Illidan absorbed the power of the skull on himself, which turned him half-demon.

Keep in mind Mal'Ganis survived a direct blow from freakin Frostmourne & Arthas, so it's not out of the question.

What is the most important thing to you? Won't you grant me the pleasure of taking it away.

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Old 05/19/09, 11:08 PM   #3340
Kaejin
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I seriously question if Dreadlords can die at all, at this point.

Balnazzar could have been explained away since Varimathras was the one to "kill" him.

Mal'Ganis, though? As said, he was struck by a weapon no less evil than the skull of Gul'Dan, and it was a blow from Arthas. You could argue that maybe Arthas wasn't as strong as Illidan at the time, but I still find it hard to believe Tichondrius is dead now that we know Mal'Ganis is still up an about.

What's more, who's to say the being Varimathras was attempting to summon wasn't good old Tichondrius? I really don't think the methods his crew were using to summon were strong enough to bring any beings of Kil'jaeden's quality into Azeroth, so I don't think it's out of the question.

Uulwi ifis halahs gag erh'ongg w'ssh.

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Old 05/20/09, 12:45 AM   #3341
Zaleiria
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Originally Posted by Kaejin View Post
I seriously question if Dreadlords can die at all, at this point.
I wondered that out-loud in this thread before, and it sounded like it was something to do with being "sent" back to the twisting nether or whatever instead of being killed. Someone pointed out that perhaps summoning someone often only brought forth a "physical manifestation" of them (especially with elementals).

In any case, you could probably kill one, but you would have to kill them on their home turf, not Azeroth.

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Old 05/20/09, 12:49 AM   #3342
Keldin
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Speaking of Balnazzar. Did we finish him off in Scholomance or is there a chance he pulled a Kael'thas? Seeing how easy it is to corrupt the Scarlets (or humans) I wouldn't be surprised if he is STILL around.

Edit - Missed the post above.

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Old 05/20/09, 12:59 AM   #3343
Emeraude
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Sargeras
Originally Posted by Keldin View Post
Speaking of Balnazzar. Did we finish him off in Scholomance or is there a chance he pulled a Kael'thas? Seeing how easy it is to corrupt the Scarlets (or humans) I wouldn't be surprised if he is STILL around.

Edit - Missed the post above.
It's rather difficult to discern what is actually cannon and what isn't, and more importantly what's been retconned. The 4 issue Ashbringer storyline brings up a bunch of these questions.

What is the most important thing to you? Won't you grant me the pleasure of taking it away.

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Old 05/20/09, 4:13 AM   #3344
Vaccine
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Argent Dawn (EU)
Originally Posted by Kaejin View Post
I seriously question if Dreadlords can die at all, at this point.

Balnazzar could have been explained away since Varimathras was the one to "kill" him.

Mal'Ganis, though? As said, he was struck by a weapon no less evil than the skull of Gul'Dan, and it was a blow from Arthas. You could argue that maybe Arthas wasn't as strong as Illidan at the time, but I still find it hard to believe Tichondrius is dead now that we know Mal'Ganis is still up an about.

What's more, who's to say the being Varimathras was attempting to summon wasn't good old Tichondrius? I really don't think the methods his crew were using to summon were strong enough to bring any beings of Kil'jaeden's quality into Azeroth, so I don't think it's out of the question.

Sargeras was originally said to have imprisoned the Natherzim in the Twisting Nether, perhaps because they were indestructible and had he killed them they would have simply come back from the Nether when they'd recovered enough. Not sure if all that was retconned out, I get confused at the mess it all became after they insterted Dranei in there with a sledge hammer.

I don't think it was intended originally but I think the theme Blizzard are going with are that Dreadlords are near impossible to kill permanently. Perhaps the Naruu can help us with that.

All the talk of Staghelm though makes me wish they'd involve the other faction leaders and heroes more often. Cairne, Magni and Tyrande seem to be mutes at the moment. Velen had his little bit at the end of Sunwell but hes disappeared now. Cairne especially I'm disappointed with, WotLK was touted as discovering a lot more about the roots of the Tauren and in the end we got a few quests for some humanoids that all look like they're wearing Tauren Halloween masks and no lore at all really.

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Old 05/21/09, 8:27 AM   #3345
dustdog
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Draenei Paladin
 
Arthas
It's possible there were other plans for the Taunka that had to be scrapped; their history, along with the Iron Dwarves feels...empty. Perhaps I was in some la-di-da land where I over-read into previews for WoTLK(at the least, the original concept art for an Iron Dwarf had them looking more human than construct) that there would be a more direct link to the past to those of Khaz Modan. At the end of the day, the Frostborn could fill those shoes I suppose; it's been awhile, so I can't really remember if a link was provided to either the Iron or the Frost Dwarves.

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