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06/14/09, 2:51 AM
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#3541
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Bald Bull
Night Elf Warrior
Sargeras
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Preview for WoW #20 is up here http://www.dccomics.com/media/excerpts/11949_x.pdf
Means the issue is due this upcoming Wed.
Originally Posted by Liebestod
More hints regarding Uldum / Gilneas / Grim Batol in the future on the forums today, see my blog post about it for the specific links.
Suffice to say I do think this is the first time in recent memory that solidly hinted that Gilneas will actually be in WoW at some point in the foreseeable future.
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Would be cool if they gave Gilneas the Isle of Quel'Danas treatment, or made it the starting area for a new race(Worgen anyone?)
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What is the most important thing to you? Won't you grant me the pleasure of taking it away.
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06/15/09, 10:02 AM
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#3542
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Emeraude
Preview for WoW #20 is up here http://www.dccomics.com/media/excerpts/11949_x.pdf
Means the issue is due this upcoming Wed.
Would be cool if they gave Gilneas the Isle of Quel'Danas treatment, or made it the starting area for a new race(Worgen anyone?)
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I dunno about adding the worgen. Anything is possible, especially given how the Draenei were completely overhauled in order to become the 5th Alliance Race. The problem with any new race is that we have to expect that the story of that faction will be very closely linked with the overall story of the expansion they appear in. Burning Crusade needed the Blood Elves and Draenei to make sense. While there is lore to suggest that the Worgen might have had some experience fighting the Legion before getting pulled into Azeroth by the Scythe of Forgotten Plot Elements, that's a tenuous link to build on, and requires the return of the Legion as an offensive force.
Out of Grim Batol, Uldum, and Gilneas, I'd say Gilneas is the one least likely to be in the game soon. By that I mean that Blizzard probably has at least the intention of adding all these places, not to mention adding a lot of other elements like playable Furbolgs, Worgen, fuggin Tuskarr, you name it. But whether or not they can tie the development of elements in with a marketable expansion is another matter entirely. The recent hints about Uldum and the link between Deathwing and Grim Batol tell me that we'll be seeing those places sooner rather than later, and possibly as part of the next expansion.
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06/15/09, 1:25 PM
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#3543
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Great Tiger
Worgen Druid
Blade's Edge
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If a new playable race came out of Gilneas I would expect it to be the Naga considering the most recent official lore on Gilneas was speculating that the Naga took it over. The Worgen in Gilneas bit was complete speculation with no backing that was made up when people were speculating the new alliance race.
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06/15/09, 1:58 PM
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#3544
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Don Flamenco
Dwarf Priest
Dalaran (EU)
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Originally Posted by Leviathon
If a new playable race came out of Gilneas I would expect it to be the Naga considering the most recent official lore on Gilneas was speculating that the Naga took it over.
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The problem is that the Naga are pretty much aligned with the Old Gods. Retconning them as either member of the Alliance or the Horde requires a major effort, beyond the "lo, we're a splinter faction dissatisfied with our mighty Queen, may she dissolve in holy water. Got room for us?". I hope Chris Metzen learned his lesson with the Eredar fiasco.
Whereas the Worgren are a lot more neutral (in terms of "we rip out the throat of anyone equally") regarding the greater cosmic forces around Azeroth. Even the Grizzly Hills stint doesn't have any real feel of the Worgren being Scourge allies, despite Arthas getting their daddy raised from the dead.
Of course, you need a second and opposite race. I'll let the Alliance have Worgren if the Horde gets Pandarens  . A good departure from the formulaic would be, of course, the next race being able to pick both sides. But that raises a lot of problems in terms of gameplay (how come alliance Worgren can't understand a thing Horde Worgren say?) so I think it's pretty much out of the question.
**edit after the fact** Another possibility, and an very new one would be a subrace. You pick a normal race, but with Worgren trait. Instead of the normal racials, you get the Worgren racial, which lets you shapeshift into a Worgren, with an intrinsic buff. That lets you be a normal member of your faction, but both can get Worgren. That's idle speculation, though. Ahhh, the wait till August, when (hopefully) the next expansion will be revealed in all its glory.
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06/15/09, 2:10 PM
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#3545
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Great Tiger
Worgen Druid
Blade's Edge
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Originally Posted by Ukerric
The problem is that the Naga are pretty much aligned with the Old Gods. Retconning them as either member of the Alliance or the Horde requires a major effort, beyond the "lo, we're a splinter faction dissatisfied with our mighty Queen, may she dissolve in holy water. Got room for us?". I hope Chris Metzen learned his lesson with the Eredar fiasco.
Whereas the Worgren are a lot more neutral (in terms of "we rip out the throat of anyone equally") regarding the greater cosmic forces around Azeroth. Even the Grizzly Hills stint doesn't have any real feel of the Worgren being Scourge allies, despite Arthas getting their daddy raised from the dead.
Of course, you need a second and opposite race. I'll let the Alliance have Worgren if the Horde gets Pandarens  . A good departure from the formulaic would be, of course, the next race being able to pick both sides. But that raises a lot of problems in terms of gameplay (how come alliance Worgren can't understand a thing Horde Worgren say?) so I think it's pretty much out of the question.
**edit after the fact** Another possibility, and an very new one would be a subrace. You pick a normal race, but with Worgren trait. Instead of the normal racials, you get the Worgren racial, which lets you shapeshift into a Worgren, with an intrinsic buff. That lets you be a normal member of your faction, but both can get Worgren. That's idle speculation, though. Ahhh, the wait till August, when (hopefully) the next expansion will be revealed in all its glory.
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Blizzard seems to like the whole splinter faction bit so a splinter faction of Naga wouldn't be too far fetched. Most things with Worgen just seem to describe them as evil creatures that have fun in terrorizing and destroying anything so them joining either faction seems just as unlikely. The Worgen we see in Northrend are all transformed humans and none of them seem to be true Worgen and I have the feeling we will see the Worgen and maybe even Arugal again in Icecrown Citadel (the NPC did mention she doubted it was the last we would see him).
I doubt we will ever see Pandaren added since it was confirmed that China was the reason why they couldn't be added into TBC. I could see them adding a faction of Horde friendly Goblins though considering how many already help the Horde.
Last edited by Leviathon : 06/15/09 at 2:27 PM.
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06/15/09, 2:44 PM
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#3546
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Don Flamenco
Night Elf Druid
Earthen Ring
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Originally Posted by Leviathon
I doubt we will ever see Pandaren added since it was confirmed that China was the reason why they couldn't be added into TBC. I could see them adding a faction of Horde friendly Goblins though considering how many already help the Horde.
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If the next expansion really deals with Undermine, then I can't see them adding goblins to one faction unless they added something else having to do with the expansion to the other faction.
Maybe one option is to add goblins to both factions. How to handle the language problem? Maybe have all goblins understand the goblin language, but have player-character goblins unable to select it as the language they speak. Then they'd understand NPCs speaking goblin for flavor and so forth, but would be unable to break the language barrier between factions. Throw in a little story to explain this, something along the lines of immigrants who insist on speaking English instead of their native tongues in order to assimilate into US society better.
Another option of course is another race. Pandaren is right out. Naga are problematic for a few reasons. But if it's "Maelstrom & Undermine", well, what race is seriously being displaced by the Naga and might come looking for allies?
Murlocs. Maybe, if it's a "Maelstrom & Undermine" expansion, Horde gets Goblins and Alliance gets Murlocs. And the most-widely-hated player race would finally be something other than Blood Elves.
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06/15/09, 2:56 PM
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#3547
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Glass Joe
Troll Rogue
Laughing Skull
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Originally Posted by zirky
The Titans should have a fairly good idea of how powerful the Legion is. It is essentially comprised of hordes of demons that previously were easily routed by a single Titan, Sargeras, and the Eredar. I think you are underestimating an individual Titan's power. Sargeras, according to official lore, easily kept hordes of demons in check, by himself. Hell, a single Guardian of Tristfall was able to keep hordes of demons in check. Granted bolstering their ranks and providing some leadership and structure will obviously make them more formidable.
As for Sargeras, after he was "defeated" by Aegwynn, he possessed her baby maker and eventually conquered an embryonic Medivh. His spirit was then destroy by Lothar after Medivh was killed.
All of this puts the Titans' power into an awkward position. They were able to easily defeat hordes of demons, single handedly; but so was a mortal. Their champion was beaten on two different occasions by mortals, Aegwynn and Lothar; yet they can create and, according to Algalon, eradicate entire worlds. Throw in the vagueness of the Old Gods, who were able to easily subvert the Titans work and yet the Titans were either unable or unwilling to destroy, and their power seems less impressive.
It could be that their powers over creation are much more impressive than their capability to destroy. They obviously have the ability to kick a lot of ass as evidenced by Sargeras. But he didn't seem that much more powerful than the best of the best mortals. Its clear that even Titans have underestimated the capabilities of mortals, at least on Azeroth. Algalon admits as much. I think it's quite possible that we're overestimating the capabilities of the Titans.
One question I have is, where did the Eredar come from? They aren't demons from the Nether. For the most part, it seems implicated that life is the result of the Titans (and of course, who made the makers?), yet the Eredar seem to be a highly power race just chilling on Argus. Is there another faction responsible for seeding worlds with life?
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First time post so here it goes.
You must remember Sargeras handed it's avatar a fraction of his power. Both times when he was defeated, correct?
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06/15/09, 3:05 PM
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#3548
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Great Tiger
Worgen Druid
Blade's Edge
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Originally Posted by Douglas
If the next expansion really deals with Undermine, then I can't see them adding goblins to one faction unless they added something else having to do with the expansion to the other faction.
Maybe one option is to add goblins to both factions. How to handle the language problem? Maybe have all goblins understand the goblin language, but have player-character goblins unable to select it as the language they speak. Then they'd understand NPCs speaking goblin for flavor and so forth, but would be unable to break the language barrier between factions. Throw in a little story to explain this, something along the lines of immigrants who insist on speaking English instead of their native tongues in order to assimilate into US society better.
Another option of course is another race. Pandaren is right out. Naga are problematic for a few reasons. But if it's "Maelstrom & Undermine", well, what race is seriously being displaced by the Naga and might come looking for allies?
Murlocs. Maybe, if it's a "Maelstrom & Undermine" expansion, Horde gets Goblins and Alliance gets Murlocs. And the most-widely-hated player race would finally be something other than Blood Elves.
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A faction of Horde friendly goblins just seems to work to me even if Undermine is the Maelstrom expansion 'capital'. It wouldn't really be any different than the draenei/blood elves in Shattrath and we know there are a lot of different factions within the goblin race. A race being displaced by the Naga joining either faction could work.
Last edited by Leviathon : 06/15/09 at 3:11 PM.
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06/15/09, 3:37 PM
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#3549
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Von Kaiser
Human Paladin
Emerald Dream
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Originally Posted by Leviathon
A faction of Horde friendly goblins just seems to work to me even if Undermine is the Maelstrom expansion 'capital'. It wouldn't really be any different than the draenei/blood elves in Shattrath and we know there are a lot of different factions within the goblin race. A race being displaced by the Naga joining either faction could work.
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Merman from the Masters of the Universe.... perhaps an aquatic race similar to him. Because they would have to be able to transverse over land easily enough.
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06/15/09, 4:52 PM
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#3550
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Ukerric
But that raises a lot of problems in terms of gameplay (how come alliance Worgren can't understand a thing Horde Worgren say?) so I think it's pretty much out of the question.
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The reason the factions can't communicate has nothing to do with lore. So this point is invalid in regards to them offering up one race that can choose its faction. It would have no effect on game play. DKs cannot communicate across faction and that isn't causing problems.
I would very much love to see a neutral race that is allowed to pick a side. Not entirely sure why it hasn't been done yet to be honest.
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06/15/09, 6:12 PM
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#3551
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Kraith
The reason the factions can't communicate has nothing to do with lore. So this point is invalid in regards to them offering up one race that can choose its faction. It would have no effect on game play. DKs cannot communicate across faction and that isn't causing problems.
I would very much love to see a neutral race that is allowed to pick a side. Not entirely sure why it hasn't been done yet to be honest.
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You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm of the mind that we won't see another race added to either side.
1) From what I understand, Goblins were initially planned as a playable race, but then the designers loved the idea of them profiting from the war so much and changed their minds. I think I remember a blue statement making it clear that goblins would never be a playable race. Of course, anything can get overturned if the design calls for it -- but in this case, I just don't see any goblin intentionally cutting off their access to the other side by picking one.
2) With how many changes Blizzard is making to the old world, I think they recognize that the future of the game is new content. BC showed that while getting a new race meant we got new starting areas, Blood Elves were still in Silverpine and Draenei were still in Ashenvale, going through mostly the same content everybody went through already as level 20+ characters. I don't think the design is going to ask for another experience like that unless the expansion involves a whole new set of leveling zones from 20-58. While that's not outside the realm of possibility, it would aggravate the top-level population that want new raiding content at level 90.
3) And yes, mechanically the language barrier is completely artificial, and for all intents and purposes they could add in a neutral race, but why? Making one starting area instead of two would come across as cheating, I think, and it still doesn't resolve the problem of having to level up through the old world.
4) I'm so happy no one has mentioned High Elves so far. ^_^
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06/16/09, 3:08 AM
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#3552
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Mr. Sandman
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Originally Posted by Mr. Crow
4) I'm so happy no one has mentioned High Elves so far. ^_^
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High Elves are everything short of playable to the Alliance right now. They are a major storyline faction and a key player in the Alliance push into Northrend -- half of the Alliance base in Dragonblight is all Silvermoon-esque architecture. I'm sure this is for storyline reasons that are corroborated by whatever is happening in the comics and so forth but it's kind of weird. Apparently you can't have an Alliance without the high elves.
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'War' is too small a word for what I'm fighting. Like a candle in front of the whole burning Sun. Now, I am not going to die today. I have other projects, and other options.
You can come with me. I can protect you.
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06/16/09, 3:57 AM
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#3553
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Mr. Sandman
Night Elf Druid
Argent Dawn (EU)
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Originally Posted by Mr. Crow
You know, the more I think about it, the more I'm of the mind that we won't see another race added to either side.
1) From what I understand, Goblins were initially planned as a playable race, but then the designers loved the idea of them profiting from the war so much and changed their minds. I think I remember a blue statement making it clear that goblins would never be a playable race. Of course, anything can get overturned if the design calls for it -- but in this case, I just don't see any goblin intentionally cutting off their access to the other side by picking one.
2) With how many changes Blizzard is making to the old world, I think they recognize that the future of the game is new content. BC showed that while getting a new race meant we got new starting areas, Blood Elves were still in Silverpine and Draenei were still in Ashenvale, going through mostly the same content everybody went through already as level 20+ characters. I don't think the design is going to ask for another experience like that unless the expansion involves a whole new set of leveling zones from 20-58. While that's not outside the realm of possibility, it would aggravate the top-level population that want new raiding content at level 90.
3) And yes, mechanically the language barrier is completely artificial, and for all intents and purposes they could add in a neutral race, but why? Making one starting area instead of two would come across as cheating, I think, and it still doesn't resolve the problem of having to level up through the old world.
4) I'm so happy no one has mentioned High Elves so far. ^_^
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I don't think people would be aggravated by new sub level cap zones. But it isn't entirely reasonable to expect a whole new 1-58 set of zones. The other option is to have the new race zone as an accelerated starting zone where quests reward mode and after finishing the two zones you're 30 instead of 20 or something. Also I think them adding one new zone in the 45-55 range would be pretty awesome as that seems to be the slow down period for those of us that level wtihout RAF. DWM revamp I loved so they could maybe just do that or add a new zone wherever the new expansion is set.
That is assuming there even is new races, maybe it will be a new hero class or maybe it will be neither. I'd prefer a complete overhaul of all races graphics and animations than a new race personally, as well as maybe making all new armour look like armour instead of painted on skin like some of the NPC's have started getting.
As for what races, I think there's a lot of potential for some sort of Furbolg faction. Maybe using the Gurloc excuse that they had their evolution accelerated and lost some bulk so armour wouldn't look ridiculous on them. Could fit them in either faction but I think Horde would fit better. I know they bent the lore a lot to let Dranei into the Alliance given the humans racisim but I can't see them accepting furry beat men wandering around Stormwind. But it depends how far they want to stretch it I guess. Naga would be a no for me just from the model limitations. Worgen possible but the lore pretty much points to them being mindless bloodthirsty savages from a planet in perpetual war. Murlocs/Gurlocs same as Naga, too difficult modelwise. Goblins, I hope not.
Other options would that it would not be a fully fledged new race as such but maybe the Frostborn and Taunka become available to play. Taunka could be based out of Dragonblight and starting zones could be caves in Azjol Nerub (yes I'm determined this comes to the game still!) and Frostborn could have some cave in Storm Peaks that they breached part of a titan facility and are battling rogue YS controlled machines.
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06/16/09, 9:43 AM
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#3554
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Piston Honda
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Originally Posted by Vaccine
Naga would be a no for me just from the model limitations. Worgen possible but the lore pretty much points to them being mindless bloodthirsty savages from a planet in perpetual war. Murlocs/Gurlocs same as Naga, too difficult modelwise.
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If you recall when DM was released, they revamped all of the ogre models to be more detailed and similar to the complexity of a player character model. There's no reason that they couldn't do the same for the Naga should they become a playable race.
A playable Gorloc would be awesome. I'd reroll in a heartbeat.
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06/16/09, 10:30 AM
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#3555
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Piston Honda
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Adding a new race or new class is many times the work of adding new leveling area (Outland/Northrend) and dungeons. I think we'd all be a lot better off if they put all that time and effort into having better and more polished content to play 80-90 and at 90.
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