Yet that (fighting just because they were in the same room) is exactly what happened in Dalaran when Rhonin was trying to unite Horde and Alliance to fight a God of Death.
Perhaps "God" and "Death" are being overused and no longer make any faction leader worried.
I definitely believe what we're missing between Marrowgar and Gunship battle is causing the confusion. If you're Arthas, and you've got not one but two super-powerful factions coming at you, and you know they're sort of in an uneasy truce, your best strategic move is to get them fighting each other before they get to you. That's strategy 101. So there must be more to erase any trust between Muradin and Saurfang Sr. between the "let's work together to save Bolvar" moment and what we're seeing in those screenshots of the gunship battle.
If there isn't, that will be seriously disappointing.
Or it's part of their ***ing-with-the-dataminers'-heads strategy. You don't put up a fake animation like this and then just ignore it like a real fake.
The achievements and the recent Twitter chat all say "defeat Arthas", not "kill" - though they do for the other bosses/encounters, too, I take that as we don't really kill him in the way of bringing the NPC to 0 HP, prompting him to start his death animation.
In a note to fansites about posting datamined info Neth told us that they purposely are not going to add things such as the sound files till the end of the PTR to prevent spoilage of the instance. I wouldn't look too into wording they use either.
Originally Posted by Bierzkrieg
Also, if the Alliance wins the Gunship battle, does this mean Alliance players have no chance to see Saurfang Jr. and his dad meeting?
Quite the loss.
If they have 1 side lose such as having the airship crash then I am not sure how Blizzard will explain that lore with what side they choose as canon. I think it is very likely that we will see one of the other characters that we know are later in the instance stop the fight once it gets to a certain point. For Horde I can see Thrall (I'd imagine he'd show up in the instance) trying to stop his people but I have a hard time seeing Varian trying to stop Muradin so I'd guess Jaina would do it.
For Horde I can see Thrall (I'd imagine he'd show up in the instance)
I really doubt it. Not only is it a horrible tactical idea for the leader of your faction to go into the enemy's lair, Thrall doesn't really have a personal grudge with Arthas. The list of characters who do (Tirion, Darion, Jaina, Sylvanas, Saurfang, Muradin) is large enough without throwing in somebody else.
I really doubt it. Not only is it a horrible tactical idea for the leader of your faction to go into the enemy's lair, Thrall doesn't really have a personal grudge with Arthas. The list of characters who do (Tirion, Darion, Jaina, Sylvanas, Saurfang, Muradin) is large enough without throwing in somebody else.
Guess Jaina would be who stops it then (since Saurfang himself is the only other orc/Horde member there who seemed against war) since otherwise both Muradin and Saurfang die on the Airships themselves (or whichever one is chosen as canon) since the end of the Airship fight involves you fighting them. I guess something else can happen to stop the fighting though such as getting to the landing point and seeing Arthas with Bolvar and Saurfang Jr.
If you're Arthas, and you've got not one but two super-powerful factions coming at you, and you know they're sort of in an uneasy truce, your best strategic move is to get them fighting each other before they get to you. That's strategy 101.
This is the way I was hoping it would turn out, too. Maybe having Arthas tell the two factions he has both Bolvar and Saurfang Jr. and he's only willing to spare one, but I guess Saurfang is already too fargone for that.
What I'm wondering is how this will affect the entire game in general. The Ulduar 3.1 Trailer (and by extension, the Gunship Battle) makes it clear that the truce between the factions is at an end. However, this raises some interesting questions. For example, there has always been a hatred between the factions, but with an all out war between them, it seems to make the PvE server concept somewhat redundant.
PvE and PvP servers are necessary gameplay restrictions only and are completely irrelevant to lore. Whether or not it makes sense from a lore perspective, there will always be PvE servers for people who want to play a strictly PvE game. People cry wolf all the time about canceling their subscription because their class got nerfed or loot sucks or this that or the other thing, but doing anything to eliminate PvE servers would wipe a significant portion of their player base in one fell swoop.
PvE and PvP servers are necessary gameplay restrictions only and are completely irrelevant to lore. Whether or not it makes sense from a lore perspective, there will always be PvE servers for people who want to play a strictly PvE game. People cry wolf all the time about canceling their subscription because their class got nerfed or loot sucks or this that or the other thing, but doing anything to eliminate PvE servers would wipe a significant portion of their player base in one fell swoop.
I understand that the removal of PvE servers would not be a logical move for Blizzard, I was just pointing out that while the storyline was rough before, it made some sense. Now, not being able to attack something you're at war with just seems silly. Maybe the death of the Lich King will somehow cause the factions to once again come to a peace in some way?
I understand that the removal of PvE servers would not be a logical move for Blizzard, I was just pointing out that while the storyline was rough before, it made some sense. Now, not being able to attack something you're at war with just seems silly. Maybe the death of the Lich King will somehow cause the factions to once again come to a peace in some way?
Well it's quite clear that any peace if any is short lived considering what we know about Cataclysm. There really is no need for server types to make sense in the end but I'd imagine there will be a lot more PvP flagging even on PvE realms.
Am I...am I looking at different pictures of the airship fight to everyone else, or something?
The ones I'm seeing go something like this:
Saurfang: Attention Alliance vessel. Back off, we've got first run at this.
Muradin: Sod that, let's turn this into a shooting war instead. Kill the Horde!
Pretty much. "Dibs! Back off or else!" "Oh yeah? I got your else right here!"
Edit: I would suspect that the Horde engagement dialog is basically the mirror of the Alliance; We see Alliance airship coming in hot, Muradin says "back off or else!" and Saurfang sends back two middle fingers and a load of hot cannonballs, with some rude noises to boot.
While the start of the gunship fight is still a bit confusing, the conclusion of the gunship battle doesn't have to be complex at all.
All you really have to do is beat the other side down and when you've done that, Blizzard can use any mechanic you like (say, a conveniently placed, big-ass frostwyrm boss) to separate and/or wreck the ships and force players right into the start of the next battle. You then loot your items from the other factions wreckage and go on to face the dead dragon (or whatever). The "losing" sides survivors are scattered and you move on.
In the lore then, nobody wins or loses but each side can claim that the other side fired first and we would have gotten them if it weren't for that meddling frostwyrm.
Pretty much. "Dibs! Back off or else!" "Oh yeah? I got your else right here!"
Edit: I would suspect that the Horde engagement dialog is basically the mirror of the Alliance; We see Alliance airship coming in hot, Muradin says "back off or else!" and Saurfang sends back two middle fingers and a load of hot cannonballs, with some rude noises to boot.
Oh, I'd agree I don't want either trivialised. But "oh hell no, OUR kill!" is something I think the players can get behind, and it's not way out of left field for either, given their dialog, etc. Two semi-allies scrambling/fighting over who gets the tag/kill/shiny/etc is a pretty decent trope to run with, if you have to run with something. I'm the biggest damn carebear you'll ever see, but this gets me out for at least a LITTLE Alliance hide, and I think that's their goal.
I don't get why Blizzard chose half the questions they did since about half of them were asking things that were said at Blizzcon.
Honestly why they would take questions like this is beyond me.
They chose those questions precisely because they were dumb. They chose exactly the questions they wanted to answer. If there was a question whose answer revealed something they didn't want out, they wouldn't choose it.
They chose those questions precisely because they were dumb. They chose exactly the questions they wanted to answer. If there was a question whose answer revealed something they didn't want out, they wouldn't choose it.
They could of easily chose questions that wouldn't give out big storyline spoilers similar to the ones about the Icecrown token system. I'd imagine there were plenty of questions about Cataclysm other than story ones and if all they wanted to do. If all they wanted to do was regurgitate old info they should of just re-posted the Cataclysm site on the front page (although it is quite typical for game companies to do Q&A's like this).
Originally Posted by Gort
Edit: I would suspect that the Horde engagement dialog is basically the mirror of the Alliance; We see Alliance airship coming in hot, Muradin says "back off or else!" and Saurfang sends back two middle fingers and a load of hot cannonballs, with some rude noises to boot.
Yea the Horde equivalent has Muradin come up towards the Horde telling them that it isn't the Hordes battle and to back off or else.
Even if Arthas messes up the Horde/Alliance cooperation, and knowing full well characters might not go fully lore-faithful - we have to get them to fight, after all - does this dialogue still make sense?
I'm assuming the Lich King's interference, should it happen, is related to the revelation of Saurfang Jr's new occupation as Deathbringer. But, in that case, wouldn't Muradin understand and allow Saurfang Sr. to go face his son? Especially while he could go for Bolvar in the meantime.
If there's no interference by the Big Bad, then I can't really figure out what would trigger this fight, but "forced FVF (Faction vs Faction" is something I really have a hard time coping with. Are we supposed to kill the opposite leader, to top it all?
Guess Jaina would be who stops it then (since Saurfang himself is the only other orc/Horde member there who seemed against war) since otherwise both Muradin and Saurfang die on the Airships themselves (or whichever one is chosen as canon) since the end of the Airship fight involves you fighting them. I guess something else can happen to stop the fighting though such as getting to the landing point and seeing Arthas with Bolvar and Saurfang Jr.
The deathbringer was meant to be part of the encounter I believe so perhaps at a low % he boards your ship (on the flying horse model we saw?) and that allows the enemy ship to disengage.
As for the Lich King, the Ashen Verdict will likely get the killing blow lore wise with a small horde and alliance presence.
Originally Posted by Shadowed
The best part is, not only were you late in linking it, that's an April fools topic from 6 months ago.
The expression they used was the "Lich King's most powerful deathknight awaits". At the landing balcony, I suppose. Whether he does wait for you or outright jumps in your ship remains to be seen. Although it wouldn't be exactly shocking, it might stall the action a little if, upon boarding, Saurfang Jr still gives us time to regain health and mana.
Perhaps that's when - on Horde side - he battles and kills his father - who may still be weakened from the battle.
On the possbility of either Muradin or Saurfang dying on the airship battle - it's the last thing Blizzard should do. Unless they mean to stress the tremendous costs this frivolous rivalry brings.
On the possbility of either Muradin or Saurfang dying on the airship battle - it's the last thing Blizzard should do. Unless they mean to stress the tremendous costs this frivolous rivalry brings.
The death of Saurfang aboard the Airship would really fuel the hatered within the Horde. Also, with Saurfang dead, there would be no reasonable Voice left amongst the Hordes leaders, supporting Thralls path of peace. Garrosh would love that, wouldn't he.
Also, as far as Story development goes, the death of two great Leaders during the Chaos of the Icecrown attack gives almost countless possibilities of how the surviving leaders interact with eachother. For example: While it would be in Thralls interest to blame Saufangs death on his corrupted son, or even better, Arthas himself (with Arthas defeated who will tell), Garrosh could use the death of a Champion to further rally Horde Fighters behind him, supporting him in his quest to finally go to war with the Alliance.
During the first Q&As Blizz announced that prior to Cataclysm, the Horde would go through a significant Change and Perils. What better then the Death of one of the Hordes great Leaders, which finally gives the more aggresive Patrs of the Horde the upper Hand.
Lies, betrayal, deceit. Maybe some have already figured it, but I would really love it, if Deathwing already had a Hand in this.
You can't kill off a major faction character as part of an instanced, faction-dependent encounter. Otherwise you run into the "what is canonical" problem in an even more major way. If Blizzard somehow does end up doing that then whoever is writing the storyline is more retarded than I thought possible.
'War' is too small a word for what I'm fighting. Like a candle in front of the whole burning Sun. Now, I am not going to die today. I have other projects, and other options.
You can't kill off a major faction character as part of an instanced, faction-dependent encounter. Otherwise you run into the "what is canonical" problem in an even more major way. If Blizzard somehow does end up doing that then whoever is writing the storyline is more retarded than I thought possible.
Why not? Icecrown will, weather instanced or not, be the Clymax of the WoW Story so far and I don't think, just because it's an instance, the events in it should be kept neuteral. Furthermore the same story can be viewed from two differnt Viewpoints, changing the preception but not the actual Event. As it is with most wars, usually both sides think their cause is just. so seeing two leaders die and makeing each side think, their champion was killed by the opposing Fraction would imho be a very intersting touch to the game.
Blizzard points to a "different" Garrosh from what we're used to. But it could very well be that, like Riptor says, such a different light is attained through propaganda and outright lying.
If I had to choose, though, I'd still have the son kill the father. It's perfectly natural that Icecrown affects the coming storyline of Cataclysm, but thinking too much ahead will be another rusted nail in the Lich King's coffin. Which isn't too bright right now.
You can't kill off a major faction character as part of an instanced, faction-dependent encounter. Otherwise you run into the "what is canonical" problem in an even more major way. If Blizzard somehow does end up doing that then whoever is writing the storyline is more retarded than I thought possible.
Not if you kill off Muradin, too.
Actually, that could be sorta fun. If you're Horde, the Alliance kills Saurfang and as revenge you kill Muradin. If you're Alliance, then the Horde kills Muradin and as revenge you kill Saurfang.
End result? Both faction champions dead, and 2 different opinions as to what actually happened. Garosh will accuse the Alliance of striking first, and Varian will do the same in reverse. You don't have to say which one is canonical, since the end result is the same and it heightens the distrust and paranoia if there are two different "official" sets of events.
10/23/09, 1:10 PM
