Wasn't there a rumoured leak like two weeks ago or so (you can probably find it a few pages back in this thread) suggesting that all of the Undead would go berserk upon the death of Arthas, and "a champion we thought dead" (Bolvar) would take up the crown in order to restore order to the Undead?

Considering the tragedies he's endured, and his current physical condition, I'd say this is a pretty credible path for Bolvar to take. I think it was Douglas who said it'd be pretty cool if he were to sacrifice himself in a molten inferno, destroying the helm and all scourge with it. I tend to agree!

I think it'd be pretty cool if it was Illidan. Reappearing after thought dead.People were talking about the need for a reappearing character that blurs the lines of good and evil. Tt'd be cool if it was Illidan and he just ran off, not explaining his motives. Although theres probably no chance. Mostly just wishful thinking.

I think something like that would be along the lines of spaceships crashing into islands with purple eredar on it when it comes to weird lore events.

Maiev could have found a way to resurrect him, to start her grand hunt once more or perhaps she fell for him or something. Regardless of the reason though, it becomes terribly convoluted. Then again you could say that the Lich King sent someone through the portal to pick up his corpse, but you'd have to wonder why since Arthas bested him despite being noticebly weakened.

Illidan's possible resurrection would suit more with Cataclysm, Azshara brings him back, only to have it backfire or something, putting her as a prime target for the fourth expansion's main boss, leaving Illidan in a tortured place of being glad to be alive again, but not as some undead/reborn aberration or whatever.

While at this point not even Illidan coming back to the realm of the living doesn't seem that far-fetched, I don't like the idea of bringing him back to life just so we can kill him again. I don't want to see him going the path of scavenging his nemesis' army just to get his revenge on us.

But I really see him capable of rallying the undead army, and harnessing their entire might against a threat of some sort, as one random, selfless act spawned from his otherwise grim and bitter heart.

And then perhaps Vashj can merge with Karathress and become the new Aspect of Magic? Come on, let's try to be a little rational.

Has there been any further revelation on "the Secrets of Frostmourne uncovered" from the Halls of Reflection? I haven't seen much on it aside from "we figure it out and then run for our lives before Arthas slaughters everyone."

Indeed, I'm not entirely sure that we'll see HoR on the PTR (at the least until the final stages) as it specifically deals with Frostmourne and, as we all know from the leak, a phase of the Lich King encounter will involve the blade itself. It's no secret that the story in HoR somewhat intended to give some form of a closure to the Wrath storyline for players unable/unwilling to do the 10/25 encounter, so it's no real surprise that it's being kept under wraps.

The Vashj, Illidan and Kael debate is funny, but they’re all very dead. In some cases, more than once! There’s no coming back for them, not at least in this story line (you can never say never though, C’Thuns rumored resurrection bears testament to this). Illidan did have strong history with Arthas, but the Matthias Lehner questline in Icecrown covered that nicely. I doubt we’ll be suprised by any NPC’s involved in the Arthas encounter – they’ve attempted too much character development so far in this expansion to waste it on a blindside from nowhere. Tirion Fordring, Darion Mograin, Muradin, Saurfang Sr. and Jr., Bolvar, Mal’Ganis along with the likes of Terenas Menethil who you’re likely to encounter inside Frostmourne… There’s more than enough for you to take your pick. You could also mention Jaina and Sylvanas but I think they'll each get their respective "closures" before the raid encounter in the HoR 5 man.

I’m also not entirely convinced that there will be a new Lich King; it's just as feasible that they’re going to close off the scourge story completely along with the Ashbringer story. In some senses I think it would be a cop out if we killed him and someone else suddenly becomes the new king/evil antagonist. I’d go so far as saying that it could completely condradict the whole “light of dawn” theme of Wrath.

Also – did anyone spot any lore regarding the Valithria Dreamwalker encounter? I’m curious to know what the scourge were doing with her and if it’s an emerald dream tie-in. I’m not overly optimistic about finding out soon though, there’s a rumour floating round that all lore-specific and other non-essential text scripts/npc dialogues have been disabled in ICC following the “leak” of Bolvar’s presence during the first round of testing.

Probably a n00b question here, but why do we necessarily need another Lich King to exist in order for the world to be maintained? Before Ner'zhul, there was no Lich King, and since then he's really been the only one. Slaying (or otherwise defeating) Arthas could be something that eliminates Ner'zhul completely, and the loss of that power could start the series in which the Deathwing rise up and begin to seize authority.

And honestly, I wonder why we have all this talk of "Arthas is the end-goal." Okay, yes, he killed his father, he's leader of the scourge. But saying "that was Arthas" is just as silly as saying "the Lich King is Ner'zhul." When Arthas took Frostmourne, he ceased to be Arthas. When he ascended the Frozen Throne, he became the Lich King. The end-goal here is defeating the Lich King, whatever power that might be. Right now, it's just a power that's present in a body that used to belong to Arthas. But the end goal isn't the body - it's the power itself.

I think the end-goal is ending the power that is the Lich King - the power that controls the scourge and the souls of so many.

One way that that unfolds is we see Arthas, the real Arthas, and his own battle with the Lich King. I wouldn't be surprised if the final battle involves Arthas reaching out to both help us and kill us. Maybe the "Halls of Reflection" will contain some way to make contact with the part of Arthas' soul that hasn't been corrupted by the power that is the Lich King.





Anyways, my only real question here was "why do we need another Lich King?" The most obvious answer is "someone needs to command all the scourge," but that doesn't necessarily mean we need a new Lich King (Kel'Thuzud controls lots of scourge).

That’s pretty much already happened, the Matthias Lehner questline in Icecrown covers the last of Arthas’s humanity and what happened to it. Matthias was the representation of the humanity left in Arthas and he was bound to the heart of Arthas which was cut out and discarded beneath Icecrown Citadel. After finding the heart you go on a pretty epic questline playing Arthas during some of his major lore moments (the slaughter of his men and raising them as undead, the battle with Illidan at the front of Icecrown etc), leading to the story of why he cut his heart out and how it ended up where it did. Long story short Fordring destroys the heart (consequently killing Matthias too, I assume) in a confrontation with Arthas, thus destroying the last shard of his humanity.

If Matthias was bound to the heart all this time, wouldn't the heart's destruction release it? Not as in having a ghost child wandering the battlefield when we're storming the Citadel, but rather, weakening Arthas somehow.

How so? If anything, it's an open-handed invitation to continue the story within Icecrown Citadel. The HoR story ends with us running for our lives, and Arthas still reigning.

One doesn't need to exist, it's just that we've been lead to believe that one will.

World of Warcraft - Lore & Storyline discussion [SPOILERS]

I have no proof, but my guess is that it's linked to both the sub-zone in the Citadel and the survival of Bolvar / Saurfang; we find that the sword is capable of trapping its victims in a way that means various people are still reachable in some way. When is the first point in ICC at which we know Bolvar is alve?

So I have to ask, why does everyone have a laugh at Kael'thas returning after we defeat him? If anyone was paying attention when they killed him, we actually take one of the orbs floating around his shoulders, which he is lacking in his MGT model last time I checked. He's on life support or reanimated by fel energies, but it's not like we took his head or anything.

Uhh.. we didn't? I guess fetching the Head of Kael'thas for the Shattered Sun Offensive was all in my imagination then!

No people are making jokes about him coming back from the dead. When have we seen him alive since the end of MGT?

Except, when you turn in Verdant sphere from Tempest keep, you are told by A'dal, that Kael is alive. Anub'arak, on the other hand, leave his broken husk, yet magically appears in ToC.

Had forgotten about the hint after we killed him at Tempest Keep. Truth be told, then, most of the fuss was because of Blizzard turning him into an evil character (which was way before MGT - there was clearly something wrong right from the start of TBC). Still, Kael became a staple of "villain comebacks" for WoW, and his "merely a setback" the signature for all other comebacks.

Most serious criticism was really about the amount of heroes that turned evil in Warcraft.

Hardly. You might have noticed that so far there hasn't been any sign of Kael reappearing subsequent to the forcible removal of his head in Magisters' Terrace. Kael jokes rely on his "Tempest Keep was merely a setback" moment in that particular instance. As TSplodey wrote, that return should not have been a surprise to anyone who was present when the Verdant Sphere quest item from Tempest Keep was handed in, at which point it was explicitly stated that Kael'thas was alive, and he even had a muahaha insane villainy moment pronouncing his allegiance to Kil'jaeden from the distance.
Picking three main reasons for the popularity of the "merely a setback" meme, even though other bosses have made returns that might be considered less probable, I would go for these:
-the farcical nature of Kael'thas' speech and appearance in Magisters' Terrace
-the somewhat camp character of Kael'thas in general
-chance are that more people have encountered the MgT Kael than the event in Shattrath, and for the latter group it would usually have been a relatively distant memory when the Sunwell patch was released.

An Argument could be made for the permanent death of the Scourge, because Cataclysm wise, Blizzard can remove the scourge from landscape of Azeroth (save Northrend), so that in a chronological order, the world post Cataclysm will be scourge free.

The last time Lich King lost control over his army, the Forsaken faction was born, being freed from his control and that was thanks to having a powerful Banshee lead them. The Scourge lack a will of their own, they follow their orders and are loyal to their masters.

The elimination of Lich King would mean there is nobody left to control them. So, if you go in chronological order (which will not be the expansion order come Cataclysm), an Azeroth infested with the Scoruge carrying out Lich King's commands would not make much sense.

Has anyone thought about the return of Mal'Ganis as the "new Lich King" / "He who weakens Arthas so that we can defeat him"?

From the Scarlet Onslaught Harbor quest line:
It would be interesting seeing the demon that had a hand in creating him before being betrayed "return the favor".

That's something I've always disagreed with, ever since Kael 25 was able to be killed (long before patch 2.1) a Shattrah-wide script started after handing in the quest item that showed he was alive. He didn't return until patch 2.4, and even when he did it fit in perfectky with Blizzard's original script:

<Silence descends upon Shattrath>
<A'dal's thoughts invade your mind>
<Kael'thas Sunstrider has been defeated by (player) and his allies>
<The time to strike at the remaining blood elves in Tempest Keep is now. Take heart and let A'dal's song of battle empower you!>
Kael'Thas Sunstrider Yells: Your monkeys failed to finish the job Naaru. Beaten, but alive... The same mistake was not made when we took command of your vessel.
Kael'Thas Sunstrider Yells: All for what? Trinkets? You are too late. The preparations have already begun. Soon the master will make his return.
Kael'Thas Sunstrider Yells: And there is nothing you or that fool, Illidan, can do to stop me! You have both served me in your own right - unwittingly. Lay down your arms and succumb to the might of Kil'jaeden!

Not confirmed per-se, but a room named Frostmourne has indeed been datamined: YouTube - [spoiler] Icecrown Citadel - Frostmourne Area