I keep thinking of this quest in the context of what others speculated about an immolated Bolvar consuming the crown of the fallen Lich King.

First, there's a minor point that Bolvar was explicitly NOT referred to as dead (hardly a surprise to anyone in this thread and thus why I call it a minor point):
But the more interesting part is this:
Wrynn's response is part egotism and part red herring and should probably be ignored. The Ashen Verdict as a faction is a union of nations and Bolvar himself would quite literally be the Ashen Verdict; rising from the fallen at Angrathar as an immolated force capable of purging the Lich King's icy crown. It would be an interesting fulfillment of this prophecy, although I don't know why Alexstrasza would be in the business of prophecy in the first place. It should also be noted that there is nothing at all like this in the Horde counterpart, but that makes sense considering it is dealing with Saurfang Jr. and not Bolvar.

Pursuing another possible line, is there any thing to suggest that the immolated champion is a single character, and not simply a model for a force of immolated champions?

Well, right now the designation "Immolated Champion" is, to my knowledge, given to the person being tortured in Yogg Saron's Brain Icecrown scene. The dialogue at Icecrown then confirms that person is indeed Bolvar. And the recent model of a human with skin-turned-ash (and wearing gear very very similar to Bolvar's) pretty much kills any doubt. The Ashen Verdict could come up with a unit called Immolated champions in honor of Bolvar, but he's given that name because of his "treatment" with dragonfire - it's a literal thing.

It's plausible that the name Ashen Verdict comes from the Wrathgate tragedy indeed, but to my knowledge, no one knowns Bolvar is still alive, save perhaps Alexstrasza or other superior beings.

As to Bolvar still being alive, if you mean him not being an undead, it's still debatable. Some think the dragonfire's properties kept him alive, although brutally scarred, while others (my case) think the Lich King did indeed raise him. Which would make his resistance to Arthas' mind control even more of a feat.

I was actually referring to the model and used the name out of habit. That is, for the people that would know how the model viewer and model IDs generally work, is it known if this model is for a single person or has that just been kind of assumed?

I seem to remember Silithus not seeing a huge revamp as well. That being said AQ and C'Thun seem to be shrouded in mystery still and we know Cho'Gall will have some sort of role in cataclysm. Seeing as Silithus had a huge elemental presence with the windstones (still one of my favorite endgame timesinks, and a zone I always try to hit while leveling up) there is a ton of leverageable material to work with in Silithus. There would have to be some changes as well seeing as twilight's hammer is now an active faction in the game and Silithus is mostly TH mobs. Maybe this is just wishful thinking but lvl 85 windstones would be epic and fit with/augment the lore.

I believe it's assumed that's Bolvar. Of course, lot's of Horde and Alliance combatants were in the same situation as he was, bio-nuked and then on the receiving end of dragonfire blasts. So, arguably, a good number of them could have survived. That would, however, amper Bolvar's uniqueness and greatness in surviving all of that plus the Lich King's mental torture. It doesn't seem too plausible they'll make an army of immolated champions, but it's possible, seeing as the "reaction" was the same for all those soldiers at the Wrathgate.

But, Bolvar is Bolvar. Right now I don't remember seeing a single character pull through this kind of torment in the whole Warcraft lore without going mental or psycho, like Ner'zhul. Blizzard would be leaving many people disappointed if they made Bolvar "one of many" - or even "one of a few".

There are a couple of reasons not to revamp Sillithus. The first is that like Shadowmoon Valley and Netherstorm, it was an endgame zone in 1.0. It's not worth the effort because people go to HFP the moment they're 58 for the gear. The second is that there's still a lot of stuff to do there rep-wise if you're trying to grind older ones. AQ40/20 and the old Twilight Summon places let you grind CC. The zone stands as a reminder as to what WoW used to be like, and it's still fun to go down there and play around with a PUG in AQ40 every now and then.

Is anyone else having flash backs to Chrono Trigger as they try and wrap their heads around the lore vs time line problem thats being debated? I am. Which made me think - what if you took a portal in the Caverns of Time to travel to BC and WoLTK zones instead of the current zepplins and portals? Add a little flavor text and a short cutscene and maybe thats good enough?

:: <player clicks on portal to Shatt/Dal/etc>
:: <cue short cutscene>
:: "There is great danger to our land. But knowledge is power. By living the events of our past you can forge yourself in a weapon capable of fighting the darkness."

I think trying to absolutely explain the time-line of an MMO as your character progresses is usually an exercise in futility.

The best you can do is say "this is generally how the time-line looks, but there's a number of exceptions and unknowns because the game world is mostly static and inconsistent because of patch changes."

Phasing has helped with immersion a lot, but unless they want to heavily phase the entire game world, we'll never have a completely fluid time-line in the game.

We know the progression is Classic -> Burning Crusade -> Wrath of the Lich King -> Cataclysm

The fact that Cataclysm made changes to Classic content does not change that Cataclysm came after WotLK and Classic was first and foremost. It just means that Cataclysm made changes to Classic content.

Temporal inconsistencies in MMO's are like holes in swiss cheese.

He immediately continued "The deaths of our brothers and sisters will not have been in vain."
So I doubt he would know about Bolvar still being "alive".

PTR update today is over 76 MB so it seems pretty likely we may actually see the sound files today and get all our answers (that or they decided to add a lot of models).

The new classic content is going to set after Wrath quest-wise by the sounds of what we have been told. Going to Northrend and Outland 'pre Cata' is wierd but something that has to be dealt with since it isn't feasible to change everything.



Edit:

Sound files are in and I will transcribe some of the bigger ones. Bolvar's sound files are only the one of him saying he will never serve Arthas. Unsurprisingly there is nothing for Arthas yet.

Jaina's sound files for the Halls of Reflection have her realizing there is nothing left of Arthas.

'There is nothing left of Arthas, only the Lich King remains. He is too powerful we must leave this place at once! My magic can only hold him in place for only a short time. Come quickly heroes!'

Soundfile for the start of the Deathbringer fight:

Horde:

Deathbringer: Join me father, join me and we will crush this world in the name of the Scourge. For the glory of the Lich King!
Deathbringer: Stubborn and old. What chance do you have? I am stronger and more powerful than you ever were.
Deathbringer: Pathetic old orc. Come then heroes, come and face the MIGHT of the Scourge!

Alliance:

Deathbringer: For every Horde soldier that you killed, for every Alliance dog that fell the Lich Kings grew. Even now the Valkier work to raise your fallen as Scourge.
Deathbringer: Things are about to get MUCH worse. Come and face the might the Lich King has bestowed upon me.
Deathbringer: *Laughing* Dwarf....

Death: I....am released.

Soundfiles from after the Deathbringer fight:

Horde side defeat of Saurfang Jr.:
Saurfang: My boy died at the Wrath Gate. I am here only to collect his body.
Saurfang: We named him Dranosh, it means heart of Draenor in Orcish. I would not let the Warlocks take him, my boy would be safe, hidden away by the elders of Garadar.
Saurfang: I made a promise to his mother before she died. That I would cross the Dark Portal alone whether I lived or died. My son would be safe, untainted.
Saurfang: Today I fulfill that promise.
Saurfang: *he starts getting emotional* You will have a proper ceremony in Nagrand next to the pires of your mother and ancestors.
Saurfang: Honor young heroes, no matter how dire the battle, never forsake it.
Saurfang: Kor'kron move out! Champions watch your back the scourge have reincar....
Saurfang: *yelling*
Saurfang: *coughing*
Saurfang: *crying sound*?

Alliance side defeat of Saurfang Jr.:
Saurfang: Behind you lies the body of my only son. Nothing will keep me from him.
Varian: Stand down Muradin. Let a grieving father pass.
Saurfang: I will not forget this kindness. I thank you highness.
Saurfang: *orcish*
Varian: I....I was not at the Wrath Gate but the soldiers who survived told me much of what happened. Your son fought with honor. He died a heroes death and he deserves a heroes burial.
Varian: Jaina why are you crying?
Jaina: *crying* It was nothing your Majesty. Just..I am proud of my king.
Varian: Muradin secure the deck and prepare our soldiers for a assault on the upper citadel. I'll send out another regiment from Stormwind.


The BIG secret to the Lich King:

Jaine: You're right Uther forgive me. I...I don't know what got ahold of me. We will deliever this information to the king and the knights who battle within Icecrown Citadel.
Uther: There is... something else you should know about the Lich King. Control over the Scourge must never be lost. Even if you were to strike down the Lich King another would have to take his place. For without the control of its master the Scourge would run rampant across the world destroying all living things.
Uther: A grand sacrifice by a noble soul.
Jaina: Who could bear such a burden?
Uther: I do not know Jaina, I suspect the piece of Arthas that may be left inside the Lich King is all that holds the Scourge from annihilating Azeroth.
Jaina: Then maybe there is still hope.
Uther: No Jaina *screams* He...he is coming! You...you must.

For the Horde side it is roughly the same thing except he is talking to Sylvanas and she has no wanting to see him redeemed.

So, a new model was added this build - http://static.mmo-champion.com/mmoc/...ss_10747_1.jpg

The question is, what is this? Did they decide Marrowgar needed a new model? Or is this some sort of thing we'll find inside of Frostmourne? Or will it be a bonus boss needed to be killed for Shadowmourne?

It's surprising how a single line actually managed to make Varian seem a lot less like a douchebag. Now *WHY* couldn't they have added a few more moments where we can see our leaders act out... well the way you wouldn't expect them to. A bit of depth and complexity and a shadow of doubt never hurts, especially when you're trying to convince 15 million people to feel attached to their faction leaders.

I'd like to see Thrall go apeshit on Hellscream, or Jaina to actually disagree with Thrall, or whatever. Is it too much to ask for?

Professor Putricides sound files are.... interesting. If you ever watched Futurama you will be instantly amused by his voice and what he says.

Aggro: Good news everyone! I think I have perfected a plague that will destroy all life on Azeroth!

Rotfaces Death: Terrible news everyone, Rotface is dead. But great news everyone! He left behind plenty of ooze for me to use! Wha...I'm a poet and I didn't know it!

Festerguts Death: Oh Festergut you were always my favorite next to Rotface. The good news is that you left behind so much gas! I can practically taste it.

His Death: Bad news everyone! I don't think I'm gonna make it.

We are still missing a lot of sound files so it will be interesting how much more character build up we get.

King Varian Wrynn gains +1000 Rep with Talanik.

Also, that new boss model, regardless of who it is, is possibly the coolest looking boss model since RoS

On a side note though, if thats actually how the Saurfang encounter ends, with Saurfang getting to the body of his son, and Varian allowing him to freely pass, does that dispel the rumors of Saurfang dying? Also, that pretty much means the straw that breaks the camels back in terms of all out war between the Horde and Alliance in Cataclysm has to be later in the instance, would it not?

Proud of my King.

So there is still a piece of Arthas in there, but it's not enough to save.

First off, Putricide is awesome.

But I should get back to my statement. Subtle shades of uncharacteristic behavior would have been nice in quests post Wrathgate, and it would have saved us all 30 pages of 'Is Varian a bigger dick than Garrosh?'. After just decimating half the other faction questing in Icecrown, instead of reporting to your leader and get a 'That will teach the scum not to mess with us' speech, a moment of doubt or regret, or whatever, would have gone along way.

EDIT: I meant character development is welcome, and in this case, quite epic, but it's coming just a bit too late.

I have to say that Marrowgar model gets major points on the effort department, but I'd rather skip the floaty things if I'm entering the Lich King's home. It might make more sense than the previous model for something made out of several skeletons, but lacks in the menace department.

Or it could, you know, happen as part of the Cataclysm itself.

I'm wondering if that new boss model is suppose to be the Devourer of Souls in Forge of Souls.

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Or perhaps we read too much into Saurfang and Jaina not being on the Cataclysm page.

It's for Marrowgar. The Devourer of Souls actually use modified textures of the Reliquary of Souls and are 'unique'.