The Tauren have learned too much warcraft from the orcs not to build some basic defensive measures. Think of it this way -- if Garrosh has expelled nonorc, nontauren forces from Orgrimmar, it's mainly to eliminate Vol'jin and the Darkspear (who are likely more personally loyal to Thrall than to the Horde itself) and the Forsaken (who are still trying to recover their trust after Wrathgate.) I don't imagine there are enough Blood Elf forces in Orgrimmar for them to be dramatically affected by such a push. But if Garrosh isn't pushing out the Tauren, this must mean that a) the Tauren are a more valuable asset to the defense of Orgrimmar and b) there is more to the Tauren than just the leadership of the Old Bull, his once-reckless son Baine, and the Crone. I imagine that there's a good number of Tauren braves who've gotten quite engaged with the Horde, becoming more Orc than Tauren, in a sense.

Corollary: Yes, I know that Cairne would likely be more personally loyal to Thrall, just as Vol'jin is, but this begs the question of what happens to Baine when asked to choose between his father and what's best for his people. If Cairne has raised Baine right, and engendered in him all that's needed to be a good chieftain for his people, Baine will choose what's right for Thunder Bluff.

So to me, the idea that the Tauren, as led by Garrosh and Baine, would fortify Mulgore against a looming Alliance threat makes a lot of sense, and hints at a lot of possibilities for growth in the Tauren storyline.

I still think it's pretty likely that we will just see Cairne hand leadership to his son like he always planned on doing since he sees the Horde is changing and he for better or worse realizes he is just too old for a more active Horde in a changed Azeroth. The wall probably is built in response to the situation in the southern Barrens with things such as Camp Taraujo being burnt down by the Alliance since it seems there will be a new way out of Mulgore to the Northern Barrens which stays as a 10-20 zone.

Yeah. It's probably also safe to say we won't see much more actual information about the Cataclysm until after Icecrown has hit the live servers -- I'm sure everyone at Blizzard is more focused on 3.3 at the moment.

I've been assuming that Magatha plays a hand in Cairne's downfall. We know there is a huge emphasis on phasing in Cataclysm based on various screen shots and Blizzards statement that Orgrimmars renovation will happen over the course of the expansion. So it's my belief that the fall of Cairne, the redemption of Garrosh and Baine's rise to Chieftan will all be played out either over patches or long quest lines. In which case we could be speculating for quite sometime.

I would like to see some more emphasis on the Tauren the the Trolls so I'm interested to see how personally the Tauren will be taking this war. Especially considering their emphasis on the Earth Mother, whose land has been torn asunder. Sunwalkers may be Tauren who believe their race is in need of a new faith.

Tauren having become engaged to the Horde does indeed seem proven true in-game, half of the Berserkers lying at the front of the gate where the Horde ambushed the Alliance are Tauren - strangely, no trolls among those berserkers (hint-hint).

Hence why perhaps more of them might support a more war-minded faction that arises as of Cairne's exit. Be it Magatha or Garrosh (perhaps Magatha's with the new Warchief), the fact is I'm sure some Tauren have developed a hate for the Alliance much akin to the orcs'. I believe Baine's leadership style will share much with his father's, but Cairne went through a "rule" by an individual much like him, one that pursued peace to the last possible resort. Baine is now "cornered" between an active enemy - the Alliance - and an ally (who can pull ranks on him, for all purposes) with some disturbing behaviour (right now, at least). Then there's Magatha who'll likely turn a few Tauren in the opposite direction of Baine. All topped by the weight of his father's very successful rule.

In any case, towards the ascension of some more "darkish" Tauren (no Grimtotem pun), we have those body-paintings that showed up some time ago, with facial markings that looked skullish and some bleeding wings in the chest. Wether these were new Grimtotem soldiers or Sunwalker NPCs (or anything else) remains to be seen, but while the Tauren are great fighters and capable of going berserk, but nothing like orcs, not to mention trolls. They're known to be one of the few races that could be more peace-prone by nature.

It does in manys way make sense that two very distinct cultures engaged against the same common enemies for a long time would start sharing traits, as their common military doctrines and tactics will start to evolve along a common path. I'm actually not at all surprised the Tauren are becoming slightly more focused on war; there are quite enough examples of peaceful nations who still proved to be formidable fighters when they were backed into a corner or poked with a stick one too many times.

I don't have to resort to Grimtotem influences, or the leader's poor education to explain why the Tauren are building fortifications. They were a secluded race for millenia, and recently they found out that the world doesn't revolve around their tribes and the centaurs/harpies/quillboars that plagued them. First they discovered the Horde, and soon after, the Alliance. Then they were confronted with the Legion, and in the aftermath of that, the Scourge, as well as a new continent, as soon as the Forsaken joinedthe Horde. Next, an elemental lord, the Black Dragonflight, some Old God, and then they took part in the exploration of a whole new planet. Now they're faced with the herald of the Titans themselves, and so forth. There's really no reason why they shouldn't change their ways, when within the space of a few years all perceptions were altered, and their semi nomadic life style suddenly isn't all that adequate for survival nowadys.

All true, Enova, but then this kind of of changes tend to create some pretty noticeable scars in a society. Far from me to start employing Sociology on minotaurs. But this is universe is called Warcraft, so most changes involve some drama. First there was the end to the nomadic lifestyle and alliance with other races - that sparked the whole Magatha situation, her ambition brought up or amplified by being safe, thus having "time" to attend to such selfish needs - but other than that seems to have been mostly well taken by the race. But now, even the Tauren that had the idea of drawing power from the sun seems to be afraid to discuss it. And with Runetotem, of all the Tauren...he's Tauren patience incarnated, for all we know. But it seems that, when it comes to religious affairs, Tauren are pretty adamant.

What I'm trying to say is those war paintings have Drastic written all over them. Trolls still use war paints, but orcs haven't been depicted with such for a good time (I mean in general, not that some individuals can't have markings). You know what would happen if a group of orcs painted skulls in their faces...They'd be used to play Living Hangman, most likely, or at least get exiled - or reassigned to Garrosh's forces.

This really seems to indicate some kind of "special forces" for the Tauren. But it's still disturbing for the usually wisest and levelheaded race of the Horde to depict skull face-paints. I don't mean this isn't a logical way for them to go, after all they've been through - and what they will still need to endure. But future for the Tauren will, I think, bring drastic changes - for the worse, as far as their usually good-willed nature is concerned. They may gain in power, though.

I thought the players were the "special forces" of their respective races Just kidding, of course, but I like where this is heading - there be interesting speculations ahead. You mentioned religious affairs. Add war paint into the mix, and a religion (or at least a belief) deeply rooted in war (as opposed to hunting, the current Tauren philosphy) emerging in the ranks of the Horde would actually be quite a nice flavor to the faction, as long as it doesn't automatically convert all the NPCs to it.

I'm assuming this is a globa Horde trend, even if still a minoritary one, because there seem to be a lot of changes taking place with all the involved races at this time. And because I like how it fits in with my theory on races starting to share common traits.

But, in case this is restricted just to Taurens, the whole Cataclysm (the actual earthquakes and floods, not the expansion pack) is certain to have upset the balance of things in the world, and the war paint could just be the Taurens' way to express the Earthmother's wrath.

I think the war paint will only be used for the Grimtotems to further separate them from the Horde (hence why it's only on black furred tauren) so it is easier to tell the Grimtotems apart from your normal Bloodhoof tauren. I really really really doubt that the Grimtotem will suddenly become in a position of power or be accepted into the Horde in Cataclysm. It is quite evident that the Grimtotem were working against not just the tauren but all the other races in the Horde as well (except whoever they were communicating with in the Forsaken) and that is a known fact by the leadership of the Horde. I'd imagine they will be even greater exiles of the Horde in Cataclysm with the motives behind the Grimtotem finally being seen by the greater part of the Horde.

Re-checked the Scrolls of Lore thread where the image of the warpaint is. The ink itself ranges from bone-white to blue to red. Yet all the models are that of black tauren.

3.3 PTR notes are out - Page 3 - Scrolls of Lore Forums

Apparently, this points to the Grimtotem finally gaining room to "organize" themselves into a noticeable faction within the Tauren. Unless the exclusive use of black Tauren is a move intended to take us down the more logical Grimtotem path when in fact this extends to the whole taurean race.

I just don't get the bleeding wings...This would be much easier if they were space marines instead of Tauren. Then it'd be commonplace.

It's possible it may be Sunwalker related, and with Tauren being tribal in nature, the skulls don't necessarily point away from that. Especially if we consider that Tauren light wielders are only considered Paladins for the purposes of game mechanics. The strictly black skins could be a red herring.

Also, do we know those are drops of blood, and not tears? The tears of the Earth Mother perhaps?

Well it has been mentioned that the tauren do look at the orcs as wayward brethren who needed guidance to come back to the true shamanistic culture. You definitly see a stronger connection between the tauren and orcs than we ever see with any other Horde races (trolls just seem to be there). Of course I believe that the trolls are going to have their island back in Cataclysm similar to how the gnomes get Gnomeregan back which will probably make the trolls not think much of the Orgrimmar changes.

I would argue that most of the Horde races so far share some traits with the orcs, which were there from the start and helped their acceptance into the faction in the first place, not developed by 'rubbing off'.

The tauren share a similar way of life and shamanistic traditions. The trolls ferocity and cunning match that of the orcs. And there's a similarity with the Foraken, sparked by the tenacity and determination the two races gained fending off enemies from all sides. The Blood Elves current addiction is very similar to the orcs' own struggle with the curse of the demon blood, and, more recently, with their efforts not to degrade into bloodtirsty savages.

The only thing I don't see fitting are he goblins, but their previous joint efforts do somehow justify their new partnership. EDIT: In fact, I think it's precisely the fact that they're so different that makes the two great partners. The orcs often need some more brainy fellows to compensate their technological shortcomings, while the little bastards need some big bruisers to take cover behind, while they work their magic on their contraptions.

I finally managed to do the Horde northrend quests on an alt and I found the Taunka story intriguing. It seems that the entire population of the Taunka of western Northrend were either killed or evicted by the scourge.
After losing their capital- Icemist Village, to the Scourge, the Taunka were very angry and vengeful, they quickly made the decision to ally with the Horde/Warsong Offensive, and the final part of your dealings with the Taunka in this chain is their induction by taking the Horde Oath, overseen by Overlord Agmar.
They very quickly get into the spirit and don the Horde armour and weapons and run around shouting ‘For the Horde!’ as if they were orcs.

If the Tauren lost Thunder Bluff…

Sidenote: If you look closely under Overlord Agmar’s helmet, you can see that he is a greenskinned orc, and one of Garrosh’s main supporters.

So we've gone from spikey docks to war paint as the indication of evil now?

Tahu Sagewind is the Tauren you're referring too, and he certainly isn't afraid to discuss it, given the fact that, hmm, you are listening to his conversation in the open with another person. He even says when asked if he is going to bring it up that there is no need to trouble Hamuul with a students idle musings. In what universe does this equate to fear? Tauren's adopted Druidism again with no problems on their side, I see no reason why they won't accept power drawn from An'she as they do from Mu'sha.

As for the war paint, they are still a tribal society. I don't see this as particularly unusual, especially if the troops are stationed at Icecrown where they are assuming they probably won't make it alive. Lets not get carried away here (again), just because they are painting images designed to intimidate the enemy on themselves. That Tauren don't walk around 24/7 painted up doesn't mean this isn't a battle tradition or something specific for the Icecrown battle.

I disagree with your conclusion though. The Tauren won't forget their roots and will still care for the land as they do now. They've always been a people of War though, hunted to near extinction by Centaur their lives were a constant battle, and only since the Horde have they really seen any peace. Throughout all that they kept their traditions alive. A new war isn't going to make them suddenely change who they are as a race.

Well, I may have come up as drastic, but that wasn't my intention. I didn't mean the whole taurean society would change, what I meant was that there would be a division among the members of said society as to their future path. Of course, if the Alliance attack, it's not like they have another choice but to strike back, but right now Tauren TEND to be reactive and view war as an unfortunate necessity. Please don't make me say there are of course some who revel in combat. (Ah, damn it)

You support my theory when you say that Tahu Sagewind feels there's no need to trouble Runetotem with his theories. When you speak with him, he shows insecurity about his "deviant" thoughts, although he thinks they're reasonable and right. But if he doesn't think he'd be free to discuss them with his own teacher, then there's certainly a measure of dogma in Tauren society. Of course many would support Tahu's theory - it's a new source of power, after all, but for the most part, those are not in positions of power. I don't know if Cairne or Runetotem would just sign the deal and start the Sun-Syphoning. Sagewind himself thinks it best not to bring up the subject. Of course Tauren society seems to be free, but when religion plays such an important role in a group, resistance to change is bound to be fierce.

On spikes and skull-marks: I got a bit carried away with the screenshot, back then, but the truth is black metal and spiked fortifications are associated with Garrosh, who coincidentaly has a more violent approach to things, just like Thrall's associated with more "mundane" fortifications, spiked as well but with a more natural feel to them. Likewise, Tauren have always used warpaint, I'm sure. The Warcraft 3 Tauren warriors had them (for gameplay reasons too, of course). But skull-paints have some symbolism in Warcraft - Ner'zhul painted one to show his change of mindset and it remains his most recognizable characteristic. So if regular (clanish) markings can be associated with the current Tauren, it's safe, I think, to assume that skull markings show a more dark stance by whatever Tauren sport them. Is that stance a logical step, like Enova suggested? Most likely. I'm just stating that it will take place, and that it might be a noticeable change from the Tauren we know. Plus their current leader is stepping down, what better time for divisions and changes among a society?

I think some here draw too little from symbolic things like markings, spikes, etc. Warcraft and fantasy in general draw heavily from symbolism and appearances. You'll never find a deeply good character with skull hanging from his belt - Thrall doesn't, for example. Likewise, a character who sports chains and spikes in his armor is likely to be at least martial-minded - again, Thrall has no spikes or chains, while Hellscream Jr.wears a more spiky armor. Hellscream Sr. had his jaw painted black, something a more lawful character most likely wouldn't. Aversions and inversions may of course take place, but they're usually obvious and intended to be so. Varian's armor is regal and mostly intended to convey an air of authority and reason to his decisions, however questionable. Then his scar takes care of the martial-mindedness. And notice how Garrosh sports rather simple equipment and armor...it shows his mindset and influence draw from primal aspects such as his ferocity and love for combat.

In a universe where it's usually impossible to develop a character to its fullest - and even if it was done, it'd be harder still to show it - characters must be judged by actions, mostly. But their appearance is always meant to convey something to the viewer/gamer/reader. If their armor stays the same, then his mindset usually does so to, if it doesn't change abruptly (if it does and the armor stays, that's meant to provoke nostalgy or sadness in other characters and viewers, adding to the constant shocking factor of said change). If he shows up with a new armor of the same general style (like Saurfang in Icecrown), it means he's either more determined or focused (he may also have gained in power slightly). If he suddendly shows up with spikes and metal where simple leather and tribal elements were before, then he's likely turned evil, eviler or is more stern and darker. There's almost no visual aspect that isn't symbolic in Warcraft. Don't forget it's born out of artists' minds. Artists that are heavily influenced by older fantasy stories, in which symbolism was even stricter - for the most part (I can't stress this enough). So they may attempt to invert or avert it. But that will be symbolic and mostly noticeable in itself.

Sorry for the wall of text, by the way.

Thank you for this summary! I haven't yet leveled a Horde character high enough to see Northrend, so all this talk of the Taunka (and my laziness in not going to WoWWiki) kept me kind of confused. I appreciate you explaining what all happened.

@Bierzkrieg - Just wanted to note one thing. You said that Thrall doesn't wear Spikes, and he most certainly does. But his spikes definitely look more ornamental than 'i'mma gouge you with my shoulders'. Otherwise, I think your theory regarding the visual aspect holds merit, as Blizzard has been taking more time with the way things Appear than I think they have in previous content patches. Probably at least in part, because of this forum and others, wanting continuity in the design.

Absolutely correct, Verziehen, Thrall's armor does sport spikes, albeit, like you say, discreet ones...Apologies ensue, nonetheless. Thrall's armor is actually a tricky bit in this appearances business, the black color and all. This is of course a theory, but apart from the obvious "it was Doomhammer's, of course it's mean to symbolize the past", I'd say the black in the Warchief's armor also carries some sense of weight and heavyness with it, all the effort and swimming against the flow that Thrall has to do. In the case of Doomhammer himself, this was valid to a certain point. Never having drunk from Mannoroth's blood, Doomhammer, although more than determined to vanquish the humans (according to Rise of the Horde, even Durotan got carried away with the thrill of conquering a new land, for a while), was a "What needs to be done for the Horde" kind of leader, in a way. Black was never, for the most part, too popular a color within the Horde.

Actually, in Warcraft, black seems mostly used for somber and solemn purposes. Apart from the cult of the Damned, which also has some tinges of purple (and the Scourge likes its blues), the only faction I can think of that's mostly tied to the black color is the Shattered Sun Offensive. Blizzard seems to run from the Black=Evil cliché at full speed. Be free to correct me, though, these are strictly personal views on the imagery of Warcraft.

Simpler answer - Thrall's armour is just a slightly redone version of the graphic from WCIII. WCIII was before they planned an MMO. They just made a design they enjoyed at the time. MMO came around, they created the lore figures to try to match WCIII. So I wouldn't read big inferences from the design or colouration of Thrall's armour. Same would go for Illidan's bellbottoms, Jaina's halter top, or the Lich King's armour.

New Lore characters only in WoW certainly can have clothing that accentuates their personality traits, or are a hint of a dark/light side counterpoint. For instance, Garrosh's gear looks like it could stand up to actual combat... once he's dragged there by a team of horses, since it looks like it probably weighs at least a ton.

So the only logical assumption to make regarding Thrall is that, like J. Edgar Hoover, he's a closet transvestite. The only time he's able to change clothes (washed up in Goblin starting area) he puts on a dress! (Hoping that was placeholder art, BTW)

Fully agreed. Above all else, what matters in Thrall's armor is that it used to belong to the greatest Warchief the Horde has ever had (that's the general view). So inferring from the armour's appearance is really not that relevant to a lore or character development. This isn't to say what I said is coincidental rather than connected, but it's the armor's story that really says something about Thrall.

From what we've seen, Thrall doesn't wash up on land in the Goblin starting zone. Rather, he's rescued on-board of an Alliance ship. And the footage/screens showed him already wearing the shaman T8 "dress" (I actually like it). I don't think it's a placeholder. Moreover, I think it hints at a "peaceful" transition of Horde Warchiefs. Perhaps we'll see Garrosh Hellscream donning Doomhammer's armor in Cataclysm - I can hear the outrage already.

I even think that he means either

1. that Hamuul is aware of Tahu's thoughts (and likely that of others, as well, as it sounds) or
2. that he does not deem his mere ideas developed enough to bring them up to important people. That he tells Aponi about them could serve both as entertainment for her and as reflection about these thoughts.

The related quest has a level of 73 (requires 71) so this conversation happens rather early in the WotLK storyline. Cataclysm and Tauren using the sun are still nearly a year away, according to the "expansion = year" philosophy.
At the time of the conversation, it's not more than a whiteboard saying "Druids use only the powers of the moon. What about the sun?"
In the following months, Tahu&Co. might do some "research" as in maybe convene with the spirits (first-hand info about the ancient Tauren druidism would be nice) and form the basics of the two sun-wielder "orders" that will be represented ingame as priests* and paladins, which might be hastened by the Cataclysm event starting the story of the expansion.

* if the priests actually have something to do with that, we might just associate them with paladins because the ones we know are both wielders of holy magic. Maybe they're just another, lighter-armored type of healer using not the powers of the sun, but that of nature.

Which means Blizzard would achieve the awesome feat of coming up with not one but two very debatable substitutes for
the Light strictly for gameplay (I know, creating a new class because of one race isn't reasonable) reasons. I'd strongly counsel them to go for the Sun energy for priests as well.

Actually, I don't see why Tauren can't worship and be given the power of the Light.