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07/11/09, 11:48 PM
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#4036
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Bald Bull
Night Elf Warrior
Sargeras
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Originally Posted by Qaenyin
A valid arguement in my opinion against Goblins being playable is this:
Goblins are not confrontational creatures. They don't fight, they hire mercenaries, they swindle or manipulate, or they simply take their business elsewhere or use leverage to get what they want.
This makes little sense then for there to be goblin "Heroes"/player characters running around. Gnomes do not have this predisposition.
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Err, Goblins are vicious fighters. Just because they're street smart and business savvy doesn't mean they don't fight. The Trade Princes have huge goblin armies out in the South Seas that have to deal with the various pirate groups. Like Gnomes, Goblins are very organized, and very intelligent, underestimating Goblins would be a mistake. 
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What is the most important thing to you? Won't you grant me the pleasure of taking it away.
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07/12/09, 10:58 AM
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#4037
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Paladin
Burning Legion
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These goblin player characters could see it as a very profitable venture to go about as "mercenaries" rather than "heroes". They don't have to care about saving the daughter of X npc as long as they get the 13g reward and bracers at the end. There's the instances of goblins who do nothing but fight, as a job, in Booty Bay Bruisers, too.
In fact, it would be pretty easy to tie in any kind of ultimate monetary gain motive behind the goblins to have them join the fight. "These naga are hurting business and sinking our ships, so lets go kill them and make money." "The naga owned lands contain a rare resource we want our hands on." "Naga are encroaching on our capital, lets get rid of them while the factions are into it and take a cut."
These are overly simplified and not intended to be interesting motives but Blizzard could easily tie in money to any reason.a
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Originally Posted by Fondren
The auction house is my favorite form of PvP.
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07/12/09, 12:25 PM
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#4038
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Great Tiger
Night Elf Hunter
Moonglade (EU)
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Ah, yes... Booty Bay Bruisers.... I'll never laugh at a goblin's fighting prowess ever again  Bloodsail Rep grinders know what I mean
Still, I did enjoy the idea of a mercenary race, although there's way too much stuff they'd need to take into account before that ever happens. And considering how long it takes Blizz to make a single massive overhaul of any given mechanic, implementing this would probably push the release date for the next expansion to way beyone the 'one expansion a year' quota.
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Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
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Originally Posted by Kaubel
You people are idiots
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Guilty as charged ^
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07/12/09, 2:28 PM
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#4039
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Honorary Toastr
Night Elf Priest
Dragonblight
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What if the creation of the paid faction change was done in preparations for a race both factions could use. I don't mean a race that can swap factions any time they please, but more along the lines of you choose your faction at the start, but both factions have access to the race.
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Originally Posted by arison
Everyone should start from the same place and rise based on their abilities, desires, and schedule. No one plays MMOs to *be* powerful, they play MMOs to *become* powerful. It's the journey, stupid. The rarer loot is, the more cherished it is when you get it, but only so long as there is a reasonable expectation to get it. The rarer loot is, the better it feels when you kill a boss or when $AWESOME_TRINKET drops.
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07/12/09, 4:09 PM
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#4040
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Great Tiger
Night Elf Hunter
Moonglade (EU)
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That makes sense, but we'd have to see a lot of other preparations made simultaneously before that could happen. Again, this is an appealing concept, even if I'm still skeptical about it. BUT this does put things into a bit of context if I understand what you're trying to say.
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Originally Posted by XI-
In summary, TBC raiding is easy. 9/10 encounters can be summarized with 1 phrase. Stay out of the fucking fire. If this is too difficult BWL was still there last I checked, so go have at it for some practice.
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Originally Posted by Kaubel
You people are idiots
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Guilty as charged ^
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07/12/09, 4:40 PM
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#4041
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Piston Honda
Human Paladin
Kul Tiras (EU)
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In a way, Death Knights of the Ebon Blade represent a neutral faction of sorts already, and I foresee that even if they introduce 'neutral' goblins as a playable race, the choice of faction would still be made at the character creation screen, and no in the actual game world.
Although I also like the idea of playable goblins, I have a suspicion that the visual distinction between Horde and Alliance is a pretty fundamental design feature. Although to be fair, many things once deemed fundamental to the game have changed in recent months, so it's hard to really tell what Blizzard is willing and able to change.
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07/12/09, 5:03 PM
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#4042
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Bald Bull
Nyxnissa
Blood Elf Paladin
No WoW Account
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Originally Posted by Torrential
Which leads to a huge problem of art development time. Blizzard already re-uses models like crazy (all non-tier gear is tier gear recolored etc.). It's pretty clear they don't have the desire to put that much budget and time into gear models.
P.S. Blood elf...brutal? Having a hard time telling the males from the females in a race does not imply 'Brutal'. 
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Counterpoint: Norwegian death bands, Eric from True Blood.
Give those dudes pointy ears and they look like belfs. Furthermore, I submit to you that the only thing more brutal then an orc with Skull armor and a giant mace is a green eyed blonde bombshell in a tight leather suit with skull armor and a giant mace.
Art development time is probably the crux of the argument with regards to all the cool features we want. I refuse to believe the Colosseum raid started with dev's sitting around a table thinking "What would be really cool?" but rather dev's sitting around the table thinking "what can we pull off in six months for as little resources as possible" (Answer: A raid with one room, no trash, and reused boss models.)
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07/12/09, 6:23 PM
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#4043
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Glass Joe
Blood Elf Paladin
Burning Legion
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Originally Posted by Camaris
... even if they introduce 'neutral' goblins as a playable race, the choice of faction would still be made at the character creation screen, and no in the actual game world.
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This makes much sense if you take PVP realms into account. As interesting as making the choice through in-game would be, people in PVP realms would be unable to have the choice of Faction either-or due to the PVP server mechanics. Unless they change the faction restriction this issue kills the possibility of choose sides in-game.
Blizzard can always change this however, since set in stone rules like no pve to pvp transfers have vanished and faction changes are incoming.
Last edited by Giulls : 07/12/09 at 11:45 PM.
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Originally Posted by Fondren
The auction house is my favorite form of PvP.
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07/12/09, 6:58 PM
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#4044
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Bald Bull
Night Elf Warrior
Sargeras
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You guys are assuming that the only way Goblins could join either faction is as a neutral faction, because that's what they're known for.
Think outside the box, assuming the next expansion takes place in the Maelstrom, perhaps the Goblins suffer some cataclysm that FORCES them or one of the Trade Princes specifically to ally themselves to one faction or the other.
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What is the most important thing to you? Won't you grant me the pleasure of taking it away.
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07/12/09, 11:16 PM
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#4045
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Von Kaiser
Blood Elf Paladin
Dragonmaw
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Originally Posted by Emeraude
You guys are assuming that the only way Goblins could join either faction is as a neutral faction, because that's what they're known for.
Think outside the box, assuming the next expansion takes place in the Maelstrom, perhaps the Goblins suffer some cataclysm that FORCES them or one of the Trade Princes specifically to ally themselves to one faction or the other.
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I only assume that b/c Blizzard has made them neutral in WoW. Personally, they are Horde to me. They built our zeppelins, they were our answer to gnomes. I much rather would see them as Horde than neutral but based on how Blizzard has used them in this game thus far, they are the best bet for a neutral type race.
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07/13/09, 12:29 AM
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#4046
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Von Kaiser
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Originally Posted by Judikael
I only assume that b/c Blizzard has made them neutral in WoW. Personally, they are Horde to me. They built our zeppelins, they were our answer to gnomes. I much rather would see them as Horde than neutral but based on how Blizzard has used them in this game thus far, they are the best bet for a neutral type race.
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Some people were mentioning these Goblin Trade Princes, so they're like different 'clans' of goblins all working for the Steamwheedle Cartel?
So I imagine that one such 'Prince' and his underlings is working for the horde for some reason, debt or something and building their zeps, catapaults, teaching the orcs etc.
And other 'princes' work purely for the Cartel and themselves...
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07/13/09, 3:49 AM
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#4047
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Mr. Sandman
Night Elf Druid
Argent Dawn (EU)
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They are the obvious counterpoint to gnomes (shudder) and Blizzard has already shown their love of balancing race choice amongst factions claiming Dranei were so Alliance got a bruiser race like Tauren, and Blood Elves so Horde got a camp and pretty race that they could all laugh at, like Night Elves/Humans. Whilst gnomes disgust me from both lore stand point and in game, Goblins for Horde are their obvious answer. Small race, good with mechanical/engineering stuff, and less magical prowess but more fight. I could imagine Warrior/Rogue/ Hunter as classes and possibly Shaman though I guess that is a stretch, and I guess DK’s as well.
The other thing to consider though is if there are new races, it is a strong possibility Blizzard wants them to at least add one new race to either Druid or the old opposite faction class. I can’t really see Goblin Druids or Goblin Paladins, so maybe not those.
For a new race imagine something like this:
After the sundering and Azshara’s pact with the Old God(s), her Highbourne followed her loyally. They began to rebuild Azshara’s palace and the surrounding area into Nazjantar. After a few hundred years as the transformations slowly changed them towards Naga, a group of them realised the error in their ways as they gazed upon their grotesque reflections, gills, fins and webbed hands and forsook Azshara and the Old God(s). Escaping during the night (or whatever passes for that on the ocean floor) they escaped South towards the Undermine and set up a new home hidden in a reef, rediscovering their druidic roots and serving to tend the ocean floor’s plant and animal life from the spreading corruption.
Befriending a nearby troll tribe, the Zandalar, they aided each other in times of need over the next few thousand years, and slowly took on the tribes Shamanistic ways to better serve nature and keep the balance of the elements deep within the ocean.
OR
After an Alliance transport was destroyed before the second war, they managed to save a handful of the survivors and take them to dry land. They spent the rest of their days living with them and among them was a prominent Paladin of the time, who taught them the way of the light. After already having thrown off the shackles of an Old God they took to the light easily and became efficient Paladins with their own unique form of worship.
They managed to mask their presence over thousands of years by staying away from Azshara and the other Naga, focusing on stealth and deception, their entire city was hidden in a deep ravine with a seemingly impenetrable layer of reef and marine life grown by the Druids. The recent events of Azshara had forced their small civilisation up to the surface which alerted the Naga to their existence. In addition the Druids of their clan were dismayed at the catastrophic damage Azshara had caused the marine life of the ocean and the Emerald Dream and vowed to destroy Azshara or die trying.
Now whether that goes against what Metzen said about any new races being more recognised as existing in the world I don’t know, in a way they are a cross between Night Elf and Naga, the halfway point of the transformation. But they would be heavily linked in with the story line, just like Dranei/Blood Elf were with TBC story line and DKs with WotLK. They’d obviously fit in better with the alliance being ex-night elves and all. Adding another shaman/Druid race would be good for choice as well.
I guess we’ll find out in 4 weeks time at Blizzcon, but given what they’ve said before about each expansion having to have a flashy new thing like a new race or new class, I’m curious to see which it will be. A new profession isn’t going to cut it, as someone said before the two previous new professions were only able to fit in the first place by creating clumsy niches for them, though sockets were a better implementation than Glyphs. I know people joked about Woodworking/Lumberjacking as new crafting/gathering profs but a sea expansion seems to go against that as you don’t get many trees on the ocean floor, even if it is freshly raised up.
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07/13/09, 10:31 AM
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#4048
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Glass Joe
Undead Death Knight
Tanaris
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This could be a stretch, but has anyone else noticed the 'stained glass' images on the way to Vezax? Some of them look like Mer-folk to me. Perhaps this is a tie in to the next expansion, and possibly new races. (Not necessarily new player races) It looks like there is a 'traditional' mermaid/merman, as well as a human torso with an octopus lower section.
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07/13/09, 10:37 AM
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#4049
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Piston Honda
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As much as I hate to sound like a naysayer, I'm just not sure we will ever see any new races capable of being druids. I say this specifically after the recent revamping of the druid forms, and due to the amount of work that seemed to have gone into them.
As it stands, each druid now has the 6 basic forms (travel, swimming, cat, bear, moonkin, tree), and of those 3 change depending on race (cat, bear, moonkin), and of those both cat and bear have different color palettes based on fur/hair color. I'm just not sure Blizzard would want to go in and add all the extra, requisite work to add another two races' worth of druid forms.
All that said, I personally would love to see another option, as the Tauren/NElf monopoly has gotten a bit stale. And I would definitely think that any new races would try to expand the cross-faction availability of the paladin/shaman outside of just the BC races.
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07/13/09, 11:02 AM
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#4050
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Banned
Blood Elf Paladin
Tanaris
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Originally Posted by Zaniel
As it stands, each druid now has the 6 basic forms (travel, swimming, cat, bear, moonkin, tree), and of those 3 change depending on race (cat, bear, moonkin), and of those both cat and bear have different color palettes based on fur/hair color. I'm just not sure Blizzard would want to go in and add all the extra, requisite work to add another two races' worth of druid forms.
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You missed Flight Form/Epic Flight Form, which also varies between the factions.
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